Rumor: Friedman - Knies for Rantanen was seriously considered

[Kcb12345]

Rantanen was not a fit for Carolina in that he is not a good forechecker and part of that is that he doesn't much like it. He is also not a wall grinder, cycle guy. So he wanted no part of committing to that.

Dallas is much more his style.. They try to come out as a group with speed, they try to attack when they get the opposition to turn it over in the NZ.. possession and playmaking. That's where he excels.

So, he would have been pretty much a waste in Toronto under Berube and would have disliked the hockey immensely. Knies is a much better fit for what Berube wants and that is what Tree has to focus on... or fire his coach.

Rantanen's game thrives around winning board battles & holding onto the puck below the goal line.

Carolina dumps and chases and volume shoots from the point rather than looking to make plays. That's why he didn't fit in there. He's a very good player along the boards. Might even be the strongest player along the boards remaining in these playoffs. Just dominant when he wins and starts protecting that puck. His forechecking for Dallas has been a standout feature of his

 

[PanniniClaus]

Rantanen's game thrives around winning board battles & holding onto the puck below the goal line.

Carolina dumps and chases and volume shoots from the point rather than looking to make plays. That's why he didn't fit in there. He's a very good player along the boards. Might even be the strongest player along the boards remaining in these playoffs. Just dominant when he wins and starts protecting that puck. His forechecking for Dallas has been a standout feature of his

I think those with proprietary info, not available for public consumption, would say that the wall is not his place. But that's not my own data so I will not try to say that it is... He is a much better fit for Dallas and not so much for Carolina and certainly would not have been for the Leafs... which is my point to my fellow Leaf fans.

 

[BB88]

Yes, they did. They needed depth.

As for Tkachuk/Huberdeau - these are 2 guys who produced very similarly prior to the trade. They gave up Weegar who was a very important piece, to do a move, that from a strict offensive perspective, was basically lateral.

Toronto is losing Marner, but with that loss comes a bunch of cap space with which to spend.

This is like listening again Edmonton trading Hall and signing Lucic to replace him to make the trade feel better..

You don’t let superstars walk, yet Toronto is most likely going to be in that situation

& Toronto would have been far better with Rantanen vs the moves they made this deadline. Now and moving forward, there’s no point to even try to argue that

 

[BB88]

Rantanen's game thrives around winning board battles & holding onto the puck below the goal line.

Carolina dumps and chases and volume shoots from the point rather than looking to make plays. That's why he didn't fit in there. He's a very good player along the boards. Might even be the strongest player along the boards remaining in these playoffs. Just dominant when he wins and starts protecting that puck. His forechecking for Dallas has been a standout feature of his

Also Rantanen is at his best when he’s coming from the 2nd wave and gets the puck and creates space with his patience

The 1st goal in game 7, the Petrovic goal and his goal vs the Jets in game 3

I wouldn’t look at his Carolina stint too much. He didn’t want to get traded and looked like a guy who’s heart got torn out

 

[Turin]

Matthews was playing injured, they weren't gonna win the Cup this year. The real mistake was blowing what they did on Carlo and Laughton. A lame duck season for the entire group.

 

[dogbazinho]

Both team should have considered it more IMO

 

[BB88]

Matthews was playing injured, they weren't gonna win the Cup this year. The real mistake was blowing what they did on Carlo and Laughton. A lame duck season for the entire group.

If they ever wanted to win the Cup this was the year

So if you go all in go for Rantanen, not for ….ng Laughton or Carlo

 

[Jumptheshark]

I wonder what the add was to Knies and before Leaf fans say there would have been no add--look at both trades. If it was one for one? It was turned down by either the Avs or Canes

 

[Frank Drebin]

I take Knies over Necas all day thats for sure

 

[Turin]

If they ever wanted to win the Cup this was the year

So if you go all in go for Rantanen, not for ….ng Laughton or Carlo

IMO they were worse this year than the last 4. The East was weaker and they got great goaltending so they won the division and people bought into the narrative about how they were suddenly this amazing defensive and gritty team. They were barely any better defensively, despite getting the best DFD and they were worse offensively. I just didn't like them this year as a contender, PLUS they had the Marner issue hanging over their heads which they exacerbated by asking him to waive at the deadline.

 

[BB88]

IMO they were worse this year than the last 4. The East was weaker and they got great goaltending so they won the division and people bought into the narrative about how they were suddenly this amazing defensive and gritty team. They were barely any better defensively, despite getting the best DFD and they were worse offensively. I just didn't like them this year as a contender, PLUS they had the Marner issue hanging over their heads which they exacerbated by asking him to waive at the deadline.

They still decided to put their chips in the middle last offseason and go for it

So when you decide that go all the way. I still think they had a better chance this year than the previous years

- Panthers had gone back to back to finals and have some major injuries, Tkachuk is playing at 30%.

- Metro is lacking a true top tier contender, Carolina was clearly the best team in Metro and they have multiple major holes in their lineup and weren’t tested at all prior to Eastern finals

I doubt the top will be this weak for quite some time and Toronto will have less assets (basically zero), will be minus Marner and Tanev will be 36

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

I'd make this trade in a heartbeat, depending on how much Knies gets paid this off-season it could honestly look even worse. Rantanen is a bonafide superstar and is actually built for the playoffs, if you knew Marner was walking regardless you'd think that would incentivize you even more.

Look at where the leafs are now, they're losing an 100 point all situations player and are going to have to try to replace his production in one of the worst free agency pools we've seen in years.

These are not mutually exclusive lol, you need good depth but you also need your horses to be your horses. Carolina is like the quintessential example of this - a team that's lauded for both it's forward and defensive depth that hasn't won an ecf game. You need gamebreakers to win.

Completely agree. Every team needs at least one superstar esque to win a cup imo, whether that be a goalie, a Hughes- Makar level and style Dman or a forward, unless a team gets all the teams that they match up preferably against.

I utterly hate the oilers with a passion but the fact that they have two of top five forwards in the game, I think they can very much win a cup despite a roster that would likely be a lottery team without them.

Again I hate them and their obnoxious fans with a passion but you gotta give props to a team that gets as far as they do with a putrid goalie tandem and a gross Dcorp along with a pretty mediocre bottom six.
Despite losing 6-3 they were the better team and the stars are gonna need Miko and/or Jason to be game breakers five on five.

 

[seanlinden]

This is like listening again Edmonton trading Hall and signing Lucic to replace him to make the trade feel better..

You don’t let superstars walk, yet Toronto is most likely going to be in that situation

& Toronto would have been far better with Rantanen vs the moves they made this deadline. Now and moving forward, there’s no point to even try to argue that

Toronto made the decision to let Marner walk 2 years ago.... there wasn't much they could have done to reverse course on this one.

As for what they're better off with... I'm not so sure. If you assume no cup in either circumstance....

Not making the trade... figure $7.5m for Knies and $6.5m Tavares; leaves you $12m to sign Lorentz, a 2/3 centre, and a top 9 winger. Money can be stretched a bit by moving Kampf and/or Jarnkrok.

Making the Rantanen trade... figure $13m for Rantanen, $6.5m for Tavares, Carlo non-existent, and let's imagine we still get Laughton. Now you've got $10.3m to sign Lorentz, a 2/3 centre, a top 9 winger, and a top 4 right shot defenceman. Sure, money can be stretched a bit with Kampf & Jarnkrok... but that likely isn't possible.

The Leafs for years have had the peril of too many high priced talents making it impossible to achieve depth. Replacing Marner with Rantnen doesn't really solve that problem.

 

[seanlinden]

Matthews was playing injured, they weren't gonna win the Cup this year. The real mistake was blowing what they did on Carlo and Laughton. A lame duck season for the entire group.

Honestly Carlo wasn't even that big of a mistake...he's got 2 years left at a bargain $3.5m.

The mistake was likely Laughton. In a perfect world, you acquire Carlo using the 1st they did, Grebenkin, and something else, while preserving Minten recognizing that he's your ideal 4th line centre next year.

 

[bleedblue94]

The first time Treliving almost got his guy and nearly made a deal and was close on a couple big things I admit it got me. Aww shucks better luck next time Brad.

By the 10th time you get real tired of hearing it.

It's a byproduct of his style. This was his MO in Calgary for years and years. In everything but rarely closing the deal. He did get some other things done at the deadline but the big fish alluded him.

 

[Fatass]

Is there a Cup parade down York this June if Treliving isn’t an idiot and lands Rantanen? Leafs were so close and now Marner is leaving. Tavares might be gone too. This was their best chance.

 

[Kimota]

Dang Canes must have been pissed when that fell through.

 

[mydnyte]

If they ever wanted to win the Cup this was the year

So if you go all in go for Rantanen, not for ….ng Laughton or Carlo

they couldnt fit him under the cap without $$ (Marner) going the other way, and with a nearly due preggo wife, marner wasnt moving anyplace

 

[seanlinden]

they couldnt fit him under the cap without $$ (Marner) going the other way, and with a nearly due preggo wife, marner wasnt moving anyplace

To be fair, they probably could have found a way to make the cap work with Knies and Rantanen being the NHL-pieces in a deal.

They cleared $3.5m for Carlo using LTIR, Dewar and Timmins.

Carolina likely would have retained salary on Rantanen bringing him down a bit, as they did/do have sufficient cap space.

But yeah, Marner's been difficult his whole career here, but with a 7-month pregnant wife (who is also from Toronto), you kind of can't blame the guy for saying "this isn't the right time for me to make a move".

 

[Schennanigans]

I think this probably hurts Carolina the most that this deal never happened.

 

[Craig Button]

This is like listening again Edmonton trading Hall and signing Lucic to replace him to make the trade feel better..

You don’t let superstars walk, yet Toronto is most likely going to be in that situation

& Toronto would have been far better with Rantanen vs the moves they made this deadline. Now and moving forward, there’s no point to even try to argue that

Does Rantanen thrive in a Dump and Chase system?
That's how the Leafs were playing all season long with Berube

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Leafs could have made this deal with Carolina if they wanted to.

Svech and Knies as top 6 LW would have been something and actually really balanced the Canes forward group.

Svech - Aho - Blake
Knies - Kotkaniemi / Roslovic - Jarvis
Hall - Staal - Martinook

Still would need to fix the 2C slot but that would have serious potential.

Will be interesting to see what kind of contract Knies does this offseason

 

[Nervousbreakdown]

But yeah, Marner's been difficult his whole career here, but with a 7-month pregnant wife (who is also from Toronto), you kind of can't blame the guy for saying "this isn't the right time for me to make a move".

Its the only thing I wont blame him for.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Matthews was playing injured, they weren't gonna win the Cup this year. The real mistake was blowing what they did on Carlo and Laughton. A lame duck season for the entire group.

Both those players have term why does that matter?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Rantanen was not a fit for Carolina in that he is not a good forechecker and part of that is that he doesn't much like it. He is also not a wall grinder, cycle guy. So he wanted no part of committing to that.

Dallas is much more his style.. They try to come out as a group with speed, they try to attack when they get the opposition to turn it over in the NZ.. possession and playmaking. That's where he excels.

So, he would have been pretty much a waste in Toronto under Berube and would have disliked the hockey immensely. Knies is a much better fit for what Berube wants and that is what Tree has to focus on... or fire his coach.

I'd agree... if Marner didn't play a similar way yet produced just fine under Berube. The main difference there is Rantanen is a proven playoff performance who can adapt to his team mates whereas Marner doesn't. He gets swallowed up by the pressure and makes poor decisions that Rantanen doesn't.

Granted, trading Marner would have be the still ideal solution, but that ship sailed the moment his NMC kicked in.