Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part VI: Someone Get Gorton A Vesey Button.
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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They literally play the same position... WHy would they be paired *together*? You are repeatedly burying yourself here.
Inferno
Registered User
Rangers should not be signing players aged 2017 to long term contracts...that's way too old.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
It makes me morbidly curious to see how certain players would've been perceived had the internet, and specifically this message board, been in full-swing in the 1990s --- in the 4 years before the cup, and in the years immediately after.
With how hyper-focused we tend to be, it'd be interesting to see how Messier, Leetch, Richter, Graves and company would've been perceived while at their peaks, or close to.
With the passage of time we either tend to gloss over some flaws, or dwell on others. Considering this board tends to have its own somewhat unique culture, I have a feeling things would be quite different.
doomscroll
Registered User
- Jan 15, 2018
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It is difficult to take a step back and try to evaluate various Rangers for their qualifications and in relation to comparable players around the league. Skjei may be perceived to be held back by his defensive capabilities, but relative to the team he did a good job of suppressing shot attempts against (especially in the slot, which has been a major issue in the defensive scheme) while generating offense and supporting shot production (per HockeyViz). If he fails to acclimate to heavy minutes under Quinn then there may be cause for concern, but I don't think it's out of the question or even that unlikely for Skjei to evolve into a top-pairing defenseman, and I think at the very least he would crack the top-four on a contender as it stands now.
With Skjei established as a young top-four defenseman, I don't think it's absolutely necessary for a contending defence to be built around a superstar, and I think it would serve this team just as well to have a committee of four reliable defensemen primarily running the back-end. I also believe that Gorton, through his apparent shotgun-spread approach of accumulating a quantity of B-quality defensive prospects, is building toward a similar foundation. This team then needs at least three defensemen to develop into top-four quality NHLers in the next 3 or 4 years, which is a group of players who could reasonably arise out of the crop that includes Rykov, Pionk, Lundkvist, Miller, Hajek, Lindgren, and DeAngelo (along with dark-horses Ragnarsson, Keane, and Day). There is a sense of security going forward that less than half of this org's higher-end prospects need to maintain their pace and upswing of development in order to basically build an entire defense. Of course, there will be unforeseen circumstances and disappointments along the way, but the question of the defense going forward shouldn't be whether or not anyone will develop into an NHL defenseman, but rather who will and in what kind of role.
OTOH, I'm fully prepared for every single one of Rykov, Pionk, Hajek, Lundkvist, Miller, DeAngelo, Lindgren, Keane, Ragnarsson, and Day busting, and then watching this team tumble down into the basement.
With Skjei established as a young top-four defenseman, I don't think it's absolutely necessary for a contending defence to be built around a superstar, and I think it would serve this team just as well to have a committee of four reliable defensemen primarily running the back-end. I also believe that Gorton, through his apparent shotgun-spread approach of accumulating a quantity of B-quality defensive prospects, is building toward a similar foundation. This team then needs at least three defensemen to develop into top-four quality NHLers in the next 3 or 4 years, which is a group of players who could reasonably arise out of the crop that includes Rykov, Pionk, Lundkvist, Miller, Hajek, Lindgren, and DeAngelo (along with dark-horses Ragnarsson, Keane, and Day). There is a sense of security going forward that less than half of this org's higher-end prospects need to maintain their pace and upswing of development in order to basically build an entire defense. Of course, there will be unforeseen circumstances and disappointments along the way, but the question of the defense going forward shouldn't be whether or not anyone will develop into an NHL defenseman, but rather who will and in what kind of role.
OTOH, I'm fully prepared for every single one of Rykov, Pionk, Hajek, Lundkvist, Miller, DeAngelo, Lindgren, Keane, Ragnarsson, and Day busting, and then watching this team tumble down into the basement.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I don't think he has tools. I think people claim he has tools that he doesn't have. Its one of these things where if a player has a couple of athletic tools they assume that other skill-based tools must be present. We see this happen in every sport. If a player gets an "athletic" reputation, there's an assumption that actual real skills that go beyond the athletic side of the game will eventually show up.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Did the Rangers ask for one? Was there a means by which they could've fit either of these players under the cap? JT not meeting with the Rangers is about as obvious as it gets - the Rangers are built to be a bottom dweller next year. Why would he want to come here? Stamkos went through a dog and pony show and just sign with Tampa again. The Rangers aren't a great destination this year, for sure, but that's not traditionally the case. Call this the summer of weird because I can't remember an off season like this in Rangers' history.
Ottawa is a complete clusterf***. Develop their own talent, for sure, but if you want to sign "veteran" players you'll need to offer term and stability which is something you routinely campaign against despite the fact that every team in the NHL signs players to these kinds of contracts. Winning teams mix vets and youth and only one team, 3.33% of the league, gets it right every year.
doomscroll
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- Jan 15, 2018
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It’s an old-school mindset to believe a player can be build from the frame inward. I don’t have much faith in Sean Day for the same reason, being that all the physical tools in the world won’t make an effective hockey player on their own accord, and using those physical tools in lieu of hockey IQ can and will lead to the kind of overcompensating with hits and speed that would lead to a defenseman trying to keep pace with the puck rather than the play. Perhaps Miller is a different breed, and actually has a mind for the game that simply has to adjust to higher-levels at the defensive position, but he is definitely a long-term project at this point.
Did you develop this opinion of the player through your extensive viewings of USHL and USNTDP games? Or is it based off 7 games of U18 NT work?
Not every defenseman can posses the impressive tools of a Ryan Graves or Sergey Zborovskiy.
A lot of proposals mention picks being lottery protected. It’s important to remember that that is exactly what Ottawa did, lottery protection refers to a team having a choice on which 1st to give up over two years. If you suck one year, you can also end up sucking the other.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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And people often talk about lottery protection like it's something the other team will let you do at no additional cost. It isn't.
- Aug 5, 2010
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Yup.
I'm really tired of this pretentious tone we get from a few posters who somehow decided they are pro-hockey scouts and began posting unquestionable assessments, such as just drafted 18-year old 1st rounder will never develop into 1st pair defenseman; or a 5th rounder who did nothing special in CHL, was VERY underwhelming at WJC, couldn't earn a spot in the AHL and finally released to go play in KHL was never given a chance or otherwise he'd be a staple top4 in the NHL.
To be honest it'd probably be as simple as having a more conversational discussion about opinions rather than an authoritative one. Many posts on here are presented in a very confrontational way and are responded to in kind.
I know pretty much nothing about Miller other than he just recently started playing D and he has a lot of athletic tools and a strong desire to improve his game. He's going to college and will get a ton of practice time to learn how to play D and develop those tools. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesn't. He wasn't picked as a guy who's going to contribue soon.
I know pretty much nothing about Miller other than he just recently started playing D and he has a lot of athletic tools and a strong desire to improve his game. He's going to college and will get a ton of practice time to learn how to play D and develop those tools. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesn't. He wasn't picked as a guy who's going to contribue soon.
The first guy traded at the deadline should be Shatty if he had a decent year.
He would surely fetch a 1st plus a good prospect, since he is resigned to a three year contract. If not more.
When we resigned Smith everyone claimed that he — if nothing else — always could be traded. A few months later he is untradable. Any vet with term any kind of dent is impossible to move. Shatty is declining as we speak, we don’t want to be caught to his contract the coming 3 years. He is the opposite of what we need, small offensive RD. TDA, Pionk, Lundkvist, Keane and co all fit that bill.
If we retain a little Shatty should be perfect to a contender. LAK, Chicago, Tampa and Philly are looking for PPQBs.
He would surely fetch a 1st plus a good prospect, since he is resigned to a three year contract. If not more.
When we resigned Smith everyone claimed that he — if nothing else — always could be traded. A few months later he is untradable. Any vet with term any kind of dent is impossible to move. Shatty is declining as we speak, we don’t want to be caught to his contract the coming 3 years. He is the opposite of what we need, small offensive RD. TDA, Pionk, Lundkvist, Keane and co all fit that bill.
If we retain a little Shatty should be perfect to a contender. LAK, Chicago, Tampa and Philly are looking for PPQBs.
Saying K’andre Miller has no tools may have just become the most ridiculous thing I’ve read here.
It’s betwen that and Ryan graves being a better skater than Sean day
It’s betwen that and Ryan graves being a better skater than Sean day
Boruto
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- Jun 27, 2011
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We have to stabilize with a core at some point. Can't keep sending the message that no one is safe every year. Callahan, Stepan, McDonagh were our 3 captains and leaders basically and they all went somewhat unceremoniously. It's worth exploring players' values but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I agree. I understand the point of what the Rangers are trying to do, but it looks to be done in such a foolish manner. There's a difference between trying to turn a guy with good tools who doesn't play that well for one reason or another into a good hockey player, and trying to have a good athlete add hockey skills.
I've seen nothing to indicate Miller is any different than Day. Maybe the only difference being that there aren't documented character issues with Miller. They have the same lack of hockey IQ. Big, good skaters and can make clean passes. But nothing in the way of real defense or offensive skills. Bland athletes that "geniuses" think they'll turn into hockey players. Both players looked to regress as prospects during their draft years. Meanwhile, some here are now the biggest experts in the world on Miller, despite never seeing him play. Funny how that goes. They were experts on Day a couple of years ago the day we drafted him, but not a moment sooner. We were told he could be as good as he wanted to be. You were attacked for asking questions about his hockey skills. We had to obey the mindset that because he was a "Paul Coffey skater", he had 1D potential. Now they've moved onto the next "athlete" that they'll attack you for not irrationally thinking will add major hockey skills post-draft.
Its unfortunate that the team is so oblivious to such a big weakness of the team. They have no top pairing defenseman on the team. But thats not a problem. We were told about how we added a first round pick and got such a good return with two prospects, one of which is supposed to be better than Ryan McDonagh this season. Lets see if that happens. Neither of these guys were off-limits for Tampa, but our management and by proxy their shills knows better than the best management group in the league. No top pairing D in the org post trading McDonagh, and then they go down the same path with two first round picks. They go for "neutral zone specialists" instead of players with real identifiable offensive or defensive skills. Three first round picks. Didn't take a guy with top pairing defensive potential. No center with 1C potential either. No cups for Gorton and co.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
But you've not seen him play. You know nearly nothing about Miller's game that couldn't be found on elite prospects or maybe a youtube highlight video. You were given the opportunity to describe your opinion in detail many times, and you couldn't do it. We both know the reason.
You are a shill for management because you like Gorton's style. Why disguise it?
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Graves was (still is?) going to be better than Brady Skjei, as well. Let's not forget that.
I have explained this in detail many times.
You've also explained that you have no idea how to evaluate a defenseman, even if it was done so unintentionally.
Yeah to his credit, he wasn't the one who said the thing about Graves being a better Skater than Day...
I don't know if that makes it any better, considering that his latest gem is just as bad as that one.
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