Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part V: Gorton is on McLeod Nine.

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I don’t see this team as a potential wildcard team at all. There are at least three non-playoff teams better than the Rangers -Carolina, Florida and Buffalo. And both the Islanders and Detroit made moves to be mediocre. Gorton has made no moves to actually wallpaper over the flaws. He’s expecting to be awful.

I don’t think Carolina or especially Buffalo are anything close to shoe ins to be better than is.

Both teams have shit goaltending.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don’t think Carolina or especially Buffalo are anything close to shoe ins to be better than is.

Both teams have **** goaltending.

Carolina had shit goal tending last year too and they still finished ahead of the Rangers.

I have no idea what they are though. Real wild card in the conference.

 

[Edge]

I can see this team finishing anywhere from bottom 5 (I think 3 is a bit extreme) to 12th or 13th.

Too many things have to go right for this to be a playoff team. I think that they sell at the deadline even if they're close and that would likely knock them back a peg.

I think it would behoove the team to move another forward out before the season starts. If you don't want to commit to Hayes, move him. There is nothing to be gained by having a team that is just good enough not to be really bad.

Personally, I think the team will finish in the bottom 10. Like you said, there's just too many things that need to fall into place for them to rank higher.

We talk a lot about the kids, but to me the defense is still a major work in progress. Lundqvist will steal some games, but he's not going to carry this team for a whole season single-handed.

Offensively, I truly believe that a big part of our success is going to come down to Zibanejad and Kreider.

If they're healthy, build on their chemistry and really run with their roles as team leaders, you're going looking at a pair of guys who could be hovering in the 30 goal, 60-70 point ranges.

If they stumble, have more severe ebb and flow to their games, or if Zibanejad cannot stay healthy again, than it's going to trickle down through the other lines.

In the case of the latter, I also think that's the point where the Rangers would at least explore the market for both guys before they potentially commit long-term (either by NMC or a new contract).

Assuming this team is hovering in the 6-10 spot in the standings, I think they have another deadline sale. In addition to the two names I just mentioned, Zucc is the most obvious candidate, Hayes could be in there depending on how our prospects progress, and several other forwards could be on the block.

I'd say there's a very good possibility the team heads into the 2019 draft with 2 or 3 firsts again, though I also think some deadline deals would look to return younger, NHL-ready talent.

 

[Off Sides]

The renters do not usually give away pending NHL ready talent at the deadline, mostly because they know they will need the cheap cap hits sooner than later, also why they try to include some sort of cap dump (or players they are not likely to re-sign anyway) into the deal. I think picks are more in line with what will be offered at the next deadline, or prospects who are a bit further out which is similar to the last deadline unless we are talking O'Gara level NHL ready talent.

I agree the Rangers could finish anywhere from about 4th worst to somewhere in the low teens but regardless they should be selling at the deadline. My concern will be more about what do they do should they find themselves say 5 or 6 points out at the deadline?

My next concern should they sell again, a ton of these prospects should they make it will be on a similar cap path where they are all going to be needing their next contracts at about the same time, every time they are up for a new one going forward too. I'd like to see them spread that out a little bit more so they are not getting too squeezed just at the time everything should be coming together should everything go relatively well.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The renters do not usually give away pending NHL ready talent at the deadline, mostly because they know they will need the cheap cap hits sooner than later, also why they try to include some sort of cap dump (or players they are not likely to re-sign anyway) into the deal. I think picks are more in line with what will be offered at the next deadline, or prospects who are a bit further out which is similar to the last deadline unless we are talking O'Gara level NHL ready talent.

I agree the Rangers could finish anywhere from about 4th worst to somewhere in the low teens but regardless they should be selling at the deadline. My concern will be more about what do they do should they find themselves say 5 or 6 points out at the deadline?

My next concern should they sell again, a ton of these prospects should they make it will be on a similar cap path where they are all going to be needing their next contracts at about the same time, every time they are up for a new one going forward too. I'd like to see them spread that out a little bit more so they are not getting too squeezed just at the time everything should be coming together should everything go relatively well.

They'll sell. They made the decision to sell this year when they were like 3 points out.

I think in all likely hood the gap between them and a playoff spot will be larger than that.

 

[LORDE]

They'll change the d-zone coverage. I'm sure that they saw the flaws with AVs system... hell everyone did... which is a shame because he used to run a tight system before Gillies got to VAN. If they don't change the system, then you will have those issues again.

Looking at the new D that were incorporated... and I'll use Robo Gara as an example.... he lost his man in coverage a ton... but guess what.. he was usually in the right position under a zone scheme. It's not easy for defensemen to condition themselves out of it. So I think that the systems changes will help.

Hoping you are correct for sure.

Again that was the first question in my original post... Quinn and his new system or the "asst coach yet to be named" system. How long will it take, it will be easier probably but we won't know until we see it.

 

[Fvital92]

They'll sell. They made the decision to sell this year when they were like 3 points out.

I think in all likely hood the gap between them and a playoff spot will be larger than that.

And this is why we will be a bottom feeder, the team after the deadline will be basically a junior team. Our current team is better right now than the one we played with in the majority of last season.

 

[Webster]

Well this makes it official, Zucc wants to be an Islander.

What? Won't happen, Zucc will never turn his back on his beloved Rangers fans.

 

[Off Sides]

They'll sell. They made the decision to sell this year when they were like 3 points out.

I think in all likely hood the gap between them and a playoff spot will be larger than that.

I hope so, but I also know there is a general idea that gets floated around at that time of year that goes something like, the team deserves a chance and it would send a bad message to sell when they are in the thick of things. (should they find themselves there)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I hope so, but I also know there is a general idea that gets floated around at that time of year that goes something like, the team deserves a chance and it would send a bad message to sell when they are in the thick of things. (should they find themselves there)

I think that really only gets floated around these parts.

The kick at the can days are over. They're in rebuild mode and it makes plenty of sense to move guys out come the deadline.

I'd do it even if they're barely in a playoff spot. Bad message or not, you need to be willing to forfeit the battle if it means winning the war.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I would say a bottom-10 finish is rather likely.

Unfortunately, I also think we’ll be much closer to the 10th worst team than the worst team.

 

[Off Sides]

I think that really only gets floated around these parts.

The kick at the can days are over. They're in rebuild mode and it makes plenty of sense to move guys out come the deadline.

I'd do it even if they're barely in a playoff spot. Bad message or not, you need to be willing to forfeit the battle if it means winning the war.

I don't disagree with you, I too would like to see them sell even if in low seed although the Devils for instance last year bought, mostly just pointing out if they do not sell while in that position that will likely be the general justification used along with playoff experience being worth....

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't disagree with you, I too would like to see them sell even if in low seed although the Devils for instance last year bought, mostly just pointing out if they do not sell while in that position that will likely be the general justification used along with playoff experience being worth....

The Devils bought after a few years of accumulating a ton of draft picks though.

The Rangers just this whole process. Unless they're comfortably in a playoff spot come deadline time, I don't see anyway they don't sell again.

 

[Webster]

I hope so, but I also know there is a general idea that gets floated around at that time of year that goes something like, the team deserves a chance and it would send a bad message to sell when they are in the thick of things. (should they find themselves there)

Who do you want to sell? Most of our UFAs next year aren't worth much anyway.

Besides, if we are in the playoff race it would be great, sooner than expected. This is what we work so hard for all year, and now with a new team and a new coaching staff we'll go all the way. Then there will be no moves.

 

[Edge]

The renters do not usually give away pending NHL ready talent at the deadline, mostly because they know they will need the cheap cap hits sooner than later, also why they try to include some sort of cap dump (or players they are not likely to re-sign anyway) into the deal. I think picks are more in line with what will be offered at the next deadline, or prospects who are a bit further out which is similar to the last deadline unless we are talking O'Gara level NHL ready talent.

I guess it depends on how you frame it.

Are you going to get a young NHL roster player? Probably not. Could you get a kid who turns pro the next season and has a chance to stick in the NHL sooner rather than later? Absolutely.

That's essentially what the Rangers received in their McD trade package with Howden and Hajek. The Rangers have expressed that in their view both guys are pretty close.

I think if we get to a point where someone like Kreider, Zibanejad or Shattenkirk become available, that's probably where the focus would be. You'd probably be looking at 2016 or 17 draftees.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Who do you want to sell? Most of our UFAs next year aren't worth much anyway.

Besides, if we are in the playoff race it would be great, sooner than expected. This is what we work so hard for all year, and now with a new team and a new coaching staff we'll go all the way. Then there will be no moves.

When the deadline rolls around remember to stay away from the sharp objects.

It's a business, but it's also just a game.

 

[Off Sides]

I guess it depends on how you frame it.

Are you going to get a young NHL roster player? Probably not. Could you get a kid who turns pro the next season and has a chance to stick in the NHL sooner rather than later? Absolutely.

That's essentially what the Rangers received in their McD trade package with Howden and Hajek. The Rangers have expressed that in their view both guys are pretty close.

I think if we get to a point where someone like Kreider, Zibanejad or Shattenkirk become available, that's probably where the focus would be. You'd probably be looking at 2016 or 17 draftees.

Howden and Hajek are probably at least a full year away from full time NHL should they make it although I think at some point may get called up this year especially if there are multiple injures at the same time.

I just don't see any trades where the renters gave away an above O'Gara level prospect that was expected to make the NHL team the following season.

I'd put Zbad in the Stepan type return area if he was moved, given the term left, I think he could bring back say a #7 plus an ADA.

Shattenkirk I think is going to be tougher to move than most want to say. Eventually the standard rental return, Kreider too once they are in the last year of their contracts.

 

[Edge]

Howden and Hajek are probably at least a full year away from full time NHL should they make it although I think at some point may get called up this year especially if there are multiple injures at the same time.

I just don't see any trades where the renters gave away an above O'Gara level prospect that was expected to make the NHL team the following season.

I'd put Zbad in the Stepan type return area if he was moved, given the term left, I think he could bring back say a #7 plus an ADA.

Shattenkirk I think is going to be tougher to move than most want to say. Eventually the standard rental return, Kreider too once they are in the last year of their contracts.

I would probably expect Howden and Hajek to see some time this season. Maybe not as regulars, but potentially getting their feet wet. Based on interviews, I suspect that is the Rangers' thinking as well.

Again, it all comes down to how you frame it.

I don't think the Rangers necessarily view closer to the NHL-ready as being a kid who steps in plays 20 minutes a night. But I think they definitely view it as being something apart from a kid in his D-1 year who is a few years off from turning pro, a marginal prospect, or a draft pick. All things being equal, I think they take the kid who is closer to turning 20, than the kid who just turned 18 in the fall. But that also depends on what deals are out there.

 

[Edge]

Who do you want to sell? Most of our UFAs next year aren't worth much anyway.

Besides, if we are in the playoff race it would be great, sooner than expected. This is what we work so hard for all year, and now with a new team and a new coaching staff we'll go all the way. Then there will be no moves.

I think there would be some potential deals to be had, depending on how the reason goes.

I think we sometimes tend to over-project the return for younger players and under-project for players who are north of 30.

Zucc probably nets a first round pick, if he's healthy, productive and the Rangers decide to go that route.

Other names really depend on a number of factors.

 

[Off Sides]

I would probably expect Howden and Hajek to see some time this season. Maybe not as regulars, but potentially getting their feet wet. Based on interviews, I suspect that is the Rangers' thinking as well.

Again, it all comes down to how you frame it.

I don't think the Rangers necessarily view closer to the NHL-ready as being a kid who steps in plays 20 minutes a night. But I think they definitely view it as being something apart from a kid in his D-1 year who is a few years off from turning pro, a marginal prospect, or a draft pick. All things being equal, I think they take the kid who is closer to turning 20, than the kid who just turned 18 in the fall. But that also depends on what deals are out there.

I think we just said the same thing.

Although I'd disagree the Rangers wanting something closer to turning 20 is the right angle for them to play, they should be in my opinion after whatever they think can turn into the highest ceiling player, whether that is a 20 year old or a 1st round pick they can not use until 2020, it should be about the ceiling rather than the timing and if they are concerned about the timing having ~6 separate players who are currently 20 all needing their next contracts the same year is not likely to play out to their advantage in terms of flexibility.

 

[Edge]

I think we just said the same thing.

Although I'd disagree the Rangers wanting something closer to turning 20 is the right angle for them to play, they should be in my opinion after whatever they think can turn into the highest ceiling player, whether that is a 20 year old or a 1st round pick they can not use until 2020, it should be about the ceiling rather than the timing and if they are concerned about the timing having ~6 separate players who are currently 20 all needing their next contracts the same year is not likely to play out to their advantage in terms of flexibility.

Well, I don't think it's 2o or bust, I think it's just a preference all things being equal.

In other words, if they have offers on the table and they both involve a left wing with similarly perceived upside coming back, I think they go for the kid who is wrapping up his D-2 season or in the midst of his first season in the AHL over the kid who is half way through his D-1 season.

But I don't think it's a rule by any stretch.

 

[True Blue]

The thing with question marks is we don’t know the answers.

I wouldn’t say this team is a shoe in to be a lottery team. I think there’s a decent chance, but frankly I think there’s just as good of a chance of us being “competitive” and grabbing a wild card spot.

Not that that’s what we’re building towards, just that it’s a realistic possibility.

Too many things need to go right for them to compete this year. Unless Quinn has a magic cure all system, this defense is not going to be able to give Henke a hand. This will be a bit transition year. I think there is a greater chance for a bottom 5 finish.

 

[Off Sides]

Well, I don't think it's 2o or bust, I think it's just a preference all things being equal.

In other words, if they have offers on the table and they both involve a left wing with similarly perceived upside coming back, I think they go for the kid who is wrapping up his D-2 season or in the midst of his first season in the AHL over the kid who is half way through his D-1 season.

But I don't think it's a rule by any stretch.

And I am not disagreeing that is what the Rangers would lean towards, I am disagreeing that the prospect, who ever he may be as an already drafted player who is developing will have the same ceiling as what they could possibly draft.

Teams are not likely to give away post draft prospects who have a ceiling of top line, top pair players. They may still turn into that but the team trading them away likely does not feel their ceiling is that high. or else they would just keep them.

Where as with picks it could be anything from a top pair/top line ceiling to a bust, so there is certainly more risk there but also the possibility of a higher reward and with that risk likely comes a lesser price tag being attached.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Who do you want to sell? Most of our UFAs next year aren't worth much anyway.

Besides, if we are in the playoff race it would be great, sooner than expected. This is what we work so hard for all year, and now with a new team and a new coaching staff we'll go all the way. Then there will be no moves.

The only 2 obvious candidates are Zuc and Spooner. Both should have decent value. Fast could be a candidate as well but a team would have to overpay a bit as his value to us is more than a market value. Vesey on a 2 year deal could be had as well if he needs a change of scenery. Maybe, just maybe we can retain on Staal and/or Smith if they have good years. Non-rental bigger deals could involve Kreider, Nam, Hayes, and Shatty.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

What? Won't happen, Zucc will never turn his back on his beloved Rangers fans.

Thank you Mats