GDT: Free agency part III-toed sloth slow

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Makes sense they’d look to deal Bear with Coghlan and Chatfield coming in much cheaper. It’d be a shame if Bear regained his form and inevitably turned into the 2nd pair D he’s capable of being elsewhere though, can’t keep them all:

I'm not sure he ever had the form to regain. He didn't in Edmonton, thus why they traded him for Foegele. He had a ~1 month stretch in Carolina where he was partnered with one of the best defensive defenseman in the league where he looked passable. Other than that, he's not really shown any form to be a top 4 D.

Not saying he can't get there, but like @NotOpie and @MinJaBen stated above, he's an adequate place holder right now.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I'm not sure he ever had the form to regain. He didn't in Edmonton, thus why they traded him for Foegele. He had a ~1 month stretch in Carolina where he was partnered with one of the best defensive defenseman in the league where he looked passable. Other than that, he's not really shown any form to be a top 4 D.

Not saying he can't get there, but like @NotOpie and @MinJaBen stated above, he's an adequate place holder right now.

Pretty sure he had a full season of solid middle pairing play in Edmonton before then struggling the following season. Plus the 1 month stretch with us before covid hit him hard. I'm not as down on him as others but I'd be happy to trade him too, we have a few solid options for 3rd pair RHD. There is a risk of him getting better and more consistent elsewhere but whatever. We got him for Foegele who now Edmonton wants to get rid of and who we were considering just letting walk to UFA. If we get anything for him I'd be happy. Prefer picks but Hoglander would be interesting. I just don't see a spot for him this year, can we send him down to the AHL or would he have to go through waivers?

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I would be interested in Nils Hoglander, personally. He's waivers-exempt this year and is the textbook example of a low-floor/high-ceiling player. He could be a total flameout that goes back to Sweden in a few years, but if absolutely everything hits right (which isn't likely), you might actually have Teravainen's future successor in the lineup. One thing that is encouraging is that he has had a couple of seasons where he's actually stuck around in an NHL lineup, even though his last year was...not great. Unlike Vancouver, who still need a ton of right-now help to even make the playoffs (and have Luke Schenn pegged as a top-4 guy), Carolina has the kind of contender-quality depth to make such a young player worthwhile to keep.

 

[Canes]

I would be interested in Nils Hoglander, personally. He's waivers-exempt this year and is the textbook example of a low-floor/high-ceiling player. He could be a total flameout that goes back to Sweden in a few years, but if absolutely everything hits right (which isn't likely), you might actually have Teravainen's future successor in the lineup. One thing that is encouraging is that he has had a couple of seasons where he's actually stuck around in an NHL lineup, even though his last year was...not great. Unlike Vancouver, who still need a ton of right-now help to even make the playoffs (and have Luke Schenn pegged as a top-4 guy), Carolina has the kind of contender-quality depth to make such a young player worthwhile to keep.

Same. But that's exactly why I don't think Vancouver would want to trade him. They probably want to send a roster player that makes more money back.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Same. But that's exactly why I don't think Vancouver would want to trade him. They probably want to send a roster player that makes more money back.

Of course that's what Vancouver wants to do, but they might not be able to. RHD is perhaps the single-most coveted role-player position in the entire NHL. Also, as I've said before, it's the Canes that have the leverage in the Bear trade talks. The rumored Gardiner LTIRetirement, specifically, means that the Canes will not be over the cap at any point this season even when Pacioretty comes back in February. They have no reason at all, therefore, to trade Bear unless they get someone like Hoglander.

 

[Svechhammer]

Same. But that's exactly why I don't think Vancouver would want to trade him. They probably want to send a roster player that makes more money back.

They also have to be willing to give us something that fits our needs, and Hoglander, who is waiver exempt, and can spend a year training in Chicago if need be, is exactly the kind of return we would need. Vancouver can't take on Bear without shedding cap, and we don't really have the room to take another surefire roster add, so it really almost has to be for someone like Hoglander.

Its not like either player has lit the world on fire so far in their careers, partially due to injury, but also both are candidates to possibly break out in the next 2 or 3. Seems like a pretty even trade.

 

[Borsig]

And I'm not sure we were watching the same Bear. At best, in my opinion, he was adequate, but nothing special. I'd deal him in a heartbeat....for just about any return I could get.

Amen.

Deal him NOW before he shits the bed and ends up in the press box again. I'd take the bet that his value is higher now than mid season.

 

[Canes]

Of course that's what Vancouver wants to do, but they might not be able to. RHD is perhaps the single-most coveted role-player position in the entire NHL. Also, as I've said before, it's the Canes that have the leverage in the Bear trade talks. The rumored Gardiner LTIRetirement, specifically, means that the Canes will not be over the cap at any point this season even when Pacioretty comes back in February. They have no reason at all, therefore, to trade Bear unless they get someone like Hoglander.

They also have to be willing to give us something that fits our needs, and Hoglander, who is waiver exempt, and can spend a year training in Chicago if need be, is exactly the kind of return we would need. Vancouver can't take on Bear without shedding cap, and we don't really have the room to take another surefire roster add, so it really almost has to be for someone like Hoglander.

Its not like either player has lit the world on fire so far in their careers, partially due to injury, but also both are candidates to possibly break out in the next 2 or 3. Seems like a pretty even trade.

You both raise good points. And it is Rutherford at the helm now, so who knows.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Pretty sure he had a full season of solid middle pairing play in Edmonton before then struggling the following season.

I think that was only because of injuries to Larsson, Klefbom, and Russell. I don’t think making Edmontons top 4, particularly when there are injuries, makes him a solid middle pair anywhere else.

Plus the 1 month stretch with us before covid hit him hard.

Playing with Slavin, early in the season before things really heat up. He was ok, but nothing irreplaceable.

I'm not as down on him as others but I'd be happy to trade him too, we have a few solid options for 3rd pair RHD.

3rd pairing is fine. I was commenting on the notion of him being top 4.

There is a risk of him getting better and more consistent elsewhere but whatever.

Yep. He’s had some moments, but he’s been inconsistent and struggles with decision making under pressure. If he can find consistency and learn to handle the pressure, then maybe he’ll find a higher role.

 

[spockBokk]

As rumored:

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

As rumored:

This, as I've stated before, likely improves the potential trade return for Bear, since Carolina now no longer has any threat of cap trouble even with Pacioretty's pending return to play.

 

[NotOpie]

Same. Bear does nothing for me as a player. I'd much rather have Chatfield playing on the third pairing than Bear. If you can get something for him at this point, I'd do it easy.

In every game that I saw Chatfield play, he looked solid, nothing flashy, but also nothing terribly wrong. It looked like he wanted the puck, unlike.....

Yep. He’s had some moments, but he’s been inconsistent and struggles with decision making under pressure. If he can find consistency and learn to handle the pressure, then maybe he’ll find a higher role.

.....Ethan Bear who ALWAYS looked like he couldn't get rid of the puck soon enough....players learned this, pressured him quickly, and that often led to turnovers or bad passes.

 

[Unhinged Finn]

As rumored:

Just wait a minute. He died, but was resurrected this summer. Now he dead again? Isn't this a movie or a soap opera plot?

 

[Derailed75]

Just wait a minute. He died, but was resurrected this summer. Now he dead again? Isn't this a movie or a soap opera plot?

Pretty sure its DED and Dyed.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Over here having an ethical quandary over my emotional reaction to the news that Gardiner can't play.

 

[Unhinged Finn]

Pretty sure its DED and Dyed.

Don't know that movie.

 

[spockBokk]

So playing around on CapFriendly, if both CDH and Stepan sign for league min ($750K), Bear is not traded and both Pacioretty and Gardiner are on LTIR, they have $7.5M in space. Just enough for Pacioretty to be activated in February/March.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Over here having an ethical quandary over my emotional reaction to the news that Gardiner can't play.

He’s still getting paid, so no need for an ethical quandary.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Anyone want to take a stab at constructing a narrative that makes the following fit?

- Gardiner is cleared and will be in camp
- The team plans to buy him out, pre-Pacioretty injury
- He's not expected in camp and likely ends up on LTIR

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Anyone want to take a stab at constructing a narrative that makes the following fit?

- Gardiner is cleared and will be in camp
- The team plans to buy him out, pre-Pacioretty injury
- He's not expected in camp and likely ends up on LTIR

The second part of that timeline was, IMO, false speculation. This Canes FO historically hasn't run the organization in such a way that ever creates dead cap space via buyouts unless they were paid in assets to do so (like with Marleau). It's far more likely that only the beginning and the end were true.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He’s still getting paid, so no need for an ethical quandary.

I see what you're getting at. He's getting rich by collecting unearned money while doing nothing, which makes him a bad person. If a bad thing happens to a bad person, that's a good thing.

Yeah **** Jake Gardiner, man.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I see what you're getting at. He's getting rich by collecting unearned money while doing nothing, which makes him a bad person. If a bad thing happens to a bad person, that's a good thing.

Yeah **** Jake Gardiner, man.

Jake Gardiner had a pretty decent career in the NHL. Now he doesn't, and he's still getting paid.

Feel bad for him for a second if you want, but he's 32 years old. He beat the average NHL career length by a good little bit.

 

[CandyCanes]

Anyone want to take a stab at constructing a narrative that makes the following fit?

- Gardiner is cleared and will be in camp
- The team plans to buy him out, pre-Pacioretty injury
- He's not expected in camp and likely ends up on LTIR

- Canes schedule Gardiner a chiropractor appointment to help his back. Chiropractor "accidentally" aggravates Gard's previous back injury. Back to LTIR he go.

 

[DaveG]

Over here having an ethical quandary over my emotional reaction to the news that Gardiner can't play.

I mean, it's both possible to feel bad for the guy who by all reports is an overall good dude that's just dealing with a shit situation that potentially means the end of his NHL career, and relieved that it represents a chance to bring an extremely good top 6 player in from the IR later in the season with no cap gymnastics required.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Jake Gardiner once wore this. Ethical quandaries go out the window.