GDT: Free agency madness, brought to you by the letter G - PART 2
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God Says No
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- Mar 16, 2012
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Yeah... not sure about the bolded. Hamonic is better than Z, but not as much as you make it out to be. The other problem with your argument is that even though I love Chabot, he hasn't really made his partner better up to this point in his career. I mean, how long has the team been looking for a partner for Chabot? I'll answer that, ever since Demelo left. So no, I'm not comfortable in having Hamonic playing close to 20 min on the first pair, and not sold Chabot can "carry" anyone.
Zub and Chabot worked last season to start. We need a dependable pair to play 20+ min. Hamonic started getting exposed after a couple of games with the Sens. He ain't it.
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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I don't disagree but we've really only tried Zub and Zaitsev with Chabot since DeMelo left, 2 seasons without DeMelo on the roster and the Dman with the most time paired with Chabot whose name doesn't start with a Z is 150 mins of Brannstrom playing his off-side. After that it's a couple rookies on their first callup in JBD and Thomson.
It's tough to find chemstry when your asking guys to play well above where they should be slotted, Zub looked great with Chabot, I'd certainly be willing to give Hamonic a look with the benefit of a training camp so he knows the system and guys tendencies, same goes with JBD and Thomson if either are ready. Zaitsev though clearly doesn't mesh well.
We need two pairs of VG Ds; unfortunately we only have 2 Ds who are VG: Chabot & Zub. Zub is more suited to #2 pair than #1.
The rest have limitations and fit on the 3rd pair: Holden, Hamonic, Zaitsev, Brannstrom.
We are hoping Sanderson can quickly become a top 4 D but that will likely take some time (a few months to a few years). Maybe Brannstrom will get there someday too.
Hopefully 1 or 2 of JBD, Thomson, Kleven and other prospects can develop to fill another top 4 D position in the next year or so.
We could definitely use a proven top 4 D at this time and I think most posters agree with that. Perhaps we will get one this summer; however, I think we may have to wait a while, probably due to budget and asset cost reasons.
Sens of Anarchy
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- Jul 9, 2013
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When the Sens identified a top 4 D as a need in each of the last 2 off seasons they were not wrong. I think a reliable defensive RD that can compliment Chabot or insulate Sanderson is what we need. Sanderson is a rookie.. and so are JBD and Thomson. Are we going to add Debrincat and Giroux and play 2 rookie D with a very base line supporting cast in our starting 6 to try to make the playoffs? Their supporting cast is Chabot, Zub, Hamonic, Holden, Zaitsev and Brannstrom. Chabot is full marks and full value; Zub is a top 4 RD; Hence identifying the need for a top 4 D. I think the Sens did a remarkable job with their forward group and I like the moves made at goalie. I really wanted to add to the D corps as a priority ... again! That has not happened. I'd move Zaitsev and Joseph and some futures if need be to get a reliable partner for Chabot or Sanderson. I do not need a Chychrun. An upgrade on Zaitsev is a must. I think Chabot wants a steady reliable partner. Hopefully PD's summer continues and he can find a way. I think that ask is getting tougher as we close in on training camp and it will be hard to pull away a D. Once the regular season starts and DJ is once again telling us how elite Zaitsev is .. I am not sure we get it done.
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I want to start off by saying this defensemen slotting talk is all if we don't get a top 4 RD and run with what we have.
On Hamonic: to me, he looked like a physical, defensively competent, bottom pair guy. I don't think he was exposed at any point, he just isn't a top 4 defenseman. Zaitsev consistently looks like a guy who's only NHL caliber trait is his skating. I see one as solidly an NHL player and the other as a non-NHL player.
On Chabot: Chabot has been mostly paired with Zaitsev since we traded DeMelo. He also played with Hainsey (I don't have ice time or advanced stats for this on me) a very, very, very small amount with Gudbranson (80 mins, 53% corsi but Gudbranson looked bad everywhere we put him), and Zub (about 400 minutes over two seasons, 50.2% corsi but have looked great). We haven't really tried to find a partner for Chabot other than forcefeeding him Zaitsev, so I don't think your point on Chabot not being elevate his partner is valid. He's played with a left shot retiree, a non-NHL player, a guy who looked bad on all three pairs but with whom he had decent stats, and Zub. I think Chabot has been fantastic individually for most of the above time period. He struggled at times in the bubble season, but he has been a transition machine otherwise, and the entire team's only breakout option for years until Stützle started coming on this season. A lot of people seemed down on him last season, but in my opinion he was, as usual, our best player. Chabot also has never had support from a second pair, something he would have with Sanderson - Zub playing behind him. This should alleviate some of the pressure he normally has.
Chabot is a great player that has been dealt terrible hands by our GM. He's been expected to carry our entire defense and breakout like Karlsson did despite not being as good. While he's not Karlsson good, I fully believe he is good enough to transition the puck like he always does while playing with a suboptimal partner, especially if it helps the team create, for the first time since Chabot was the guy on our defense, a good second pair.
Additionally, depriving Sanderson of a truly dependable partner feels wrong for his development and for the team to me. You're asking so much of a rookie defenseman who hasn't even had the offseason to train. You wan carry our second pair by himself? Seems far less effective than putting Zub there and letting Chabot continue his solid individual play.
Again, ideally we bring someone in, but this conversation was on the premise of that not being an option. Again again, as with all pre-training camp roster and lineup talk, lots of other things could happen. This is just how I look at the situation and what I think is best for the players and the team. With that said, I really hope they do what I've suggested or go out and get someone. If not, I forsee Chabot - Zaitsev as a mainstay in our future again.
I’m not sure if the’ll put Zub with Sanderson. He’s steady, but I’m not sure he’s leadership/communication material for Sanderson.
I’d like to see Chabot and Zub, and Sanderson and Hamonic. Then we can have Holden and Zaitsev/Branstrom.
It would be nice to start focusing on building a partnership between Zub and Chabot, and I think 700 games is a good benchmark for Hamonic to help mentor Sanderson.
Obviously we’ll know more at camp when players start to build chemistry.
I’d like to see Chabot and Zub, and Sanderson and Hamonic. Then we can have Holden and Zaitsev/Branstrom.
It would be nice to start focusing on building a partnership between Zub and Chabot, and I think 700 games is a good benchmark for Hamonic to help mentor Sanderson.
Obviously we’ll know more at camp when players start to build chemistry.
L'Aveuglette
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Yeah, as much as I love what Dorion pulled off with the forward group, in no way does that remove the need of a top-4 D.
Hell, we could have brought in all of Fiala, Giroux and DBC and I still wouldn't think it makes our need of a solid partner for Chabot or Sanderson any less urgent.
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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To upgrade J.Brown and have a competent bottom 4 RHD after Zub.
GWNR
Registered User
I think this is the best approach. Hamonic can probably be okay with Sanderson.
It's far from ideal and they need another RHD, but it doesn't look like it's happenign right now.
Micklebot
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- Apr 27, 2010
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Right now I'd run Chabot with Zub and Sanderson with Hamonic.
Bottom pair I'd go with Brannstrom and Holden playing his off side unless Zaitsev has somehow taken a big step forward.
Ideally I'd love to add another right side D, someone who can play top pair or really be a driving force on a sound pair, but I think we can get by with what we have.
Bottom pair I'd go with Brannstrom and Holden playing his off side unless Zaitsev has somehow taken a big step forward.
Ideally I'd love to add another right side D, someone who can play top pair or really be a driving force on a sound pair, but I think we can get by with what we have.
Ya, that top 4 works for me.
That still leaves Holden, Brannstrom and Zaitsev plus the rookies. Who knows what happens with injuries
Sting
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- Feb 8, 2004
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Just like the goaltending situation, it seems like we're stuck in this never-ending position where we need a top 4 RHD. Probably the most difficult player type to acquire other than a #1C. I don't even know of any legit ones available - and I'm not talking about the Tyson Barries of the world.
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
I have hope that at least one or two of the 4 former 1st rounders can step up and fill a role or two, but if they all stumble, we'll be in trouble and might be forced to make a move to salvage the season. We have to roll with them at some point, but it would be ideal if they were able to be eased in a bit more. Some probably have PTSD from all those penciled in lineups of the past with Cowen, Rundblad, Wiercioch joining Karlsson only to turn out to all be busts.
L'Aveuglette
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
There were quite a few available this summer and we missed out on all of them.
Masked
(Super/star)
There was not. RHD were the scarcest thing on the market this summer. There was Manson, Klingberg, Marino, Deangelo and...?
Dorion stated when he traded for Hamonic that there was going to slim pickings for RHD this summer and is why he made that trade.
Assen na yo!
Spotlight
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- Aug 25, 2005
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Looking at a few teams that have either cap issues (this season or next) or roster size issues or are in situations where they have contracts/guys that might want a different direction than the team is going in.
I wonder if the following could be some trade targets for RHD:
Brandon Carlo
Adam Boqvist
Adam Larsson (NTC kicks in next year only)
Ryan Pulock (if they really are trying to make room for Kadri)(NTC kicks in in 2027)
Cam Fowler
Seth Jones
Obviously we would need to make it work for us (including some where the other team might need to retain), but these are the guys i would hope Pierre Dorion is getting on the phone for.
I wonder if the following could be some trade targets for RHD:
Brandon Carlo
Adam Boqvist
Adam Larsson (NTC kicks in next year only)
Ryan Pulock (if they really are trying to make room for Kadri)(NTC kicks in in 2027)
Cam Fowler
Seth Jones
Obviously we would need to make it work for us (including some where the other team might need to retain), but these are the guys i would hope Pierre Dorion is getting on the phone for.
Sens of Anarchy
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- Jul 9, 2013
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I expect to see
Chabot Zub
Sandy Hamonic
Holden Zaitsev
Brannstrom
Brannstrom will platoon in for Holden or Zaitsev.. with Holden playing RD when needed.
Love to have someone like Tanev or Weegar in there and push Hamonic Down. We started with Chabot Zub last year and they looked really good but had to change to create more balance. We added Hamonic late so that could be a positive in being able to keep them together. Lets hope we don't have to shuffle that again.
Laphroaig
Registered User
Sens goaltending looks like it could be solid this year and the forward group definitely looks playoff worthy. The problem is that our defense is sub par and standing pat shouldn't be an option. I'm still all in on Chychrun. He's signed for three more years on a bargain contract and is quite capable of playing on the right side. He's most certainly a top pairing talent who'd be happy to play in Ottawa so I'm hoping that Dorion is still in the hunt and just waiting for the price to drop.
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
I'd have Zub with Chabot and Holden with Sanderson. Holden can play the right side and is better than Hamonic.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Yeah, I totally agree, adding a Tanev or Weegar type would put this group over the top imo. Different flavours but similar impact.
Personally, I'm pretty high on Sanderson's ability to come in and be a solid defensive Dman, but expect to take more time before he opens up offensively, so I see more appeal to having Brannstrom in the lineup than Zaitsev, but DJ may see things differently than me and want Zaitsev in there for the PK.
Having said all that, I could see us waiting till the deadline before acquiring a top 4 d, and only doing so if JBD and Thomson fail to grab the bull by the horns.
I get the feeling what you see now is what we're going into camp with.
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
Funny thing about Weegar being the coveted RHD is that he's really shown he's a good d-man on the left side, despite being a righty.
If DJ continues to tout and use Zaitsev as a top 4 D, then we have a coaching problem that needs to be addressed too.
BonHoonLayneCornell
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