I’d also add that in the last three years we’ve used 5 of our top 6 selections on D. I think the Sens scouts could be better but our forward pool sucks primarily because we are relying on 4th round picks to hit. They did mess up their 10th overall pick in 2021 but other than that it’s really scarcity of 1st/2nd rounders used on forwards that is the primary issue.
Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5
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established top 6 forwards are very hard to acquire and we have no assets to move for them. One of our prospects needs to take some unforeseen leap or free agency.
We’re not acquiring a top 6 forward unless it’s for a top 6 forward or our first.
Okay but you can draft good D do they know this.
You’re saying we use a lot of capital on D and we’ve drafted (since the start of the rebuild) ONE potential top 4 guy lol. ONE. And kleven. And the rest a bunch of guys who seem to not be able to play.
Loach
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- Jun 9, 2021
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How many times can you say league executive?Not surprising but the Sens are trying to move JBD according to Garrioch
Time is of the essence for Senators GM Steve Staios as NHL trade deadline nears
Steve Staios, the club’s president of hockey operations and general manager, has to determine if he can find the right fit(s) to add to the roster before the trade deadline set for March 7.ottawacitizen.com
The influx of D has come in the last few years though. We probably won’t know if they got better at it for a few years. Not really disagreeing though, Sens were horrifically bad at drafting dmen for a long time… maybe they still are.
Tuna99
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- Sep 26, 2009
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Brock Boeser is interesting - broke in under Travis Green and played some of his best hockey u def him. Right wing, fits the Sens profile for size and emotion me hockey sense.
Can’t ford to sign him but, but if the Sens get creative I’m sure they could figure something out.
Can’t ford to sign him but, but if the Sens get creative I’m sure they could figure something out.
Puikiou
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- Oct 15, 2013
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On the contrary. With a competent GM/management group (which, granted Ottawa hasn’t had for a decade+), it’s really not that difficult or expensive to find an average/fringe top 6 winger.
In fact, out of all major positions (top 6 C, #1G, top 4 D, etc.), top 6 winger is probably the most dime a dozen and least valuable one. It just doesn’t feel like it because the culture in Ottawa is to be taken advantage of in trades rather than taking advantage of the market (see most recently: Joseph, Mathieu; Chychrun, Jakob; etc.). Since last year’s trade deadline alone:
Juuso Parssinen + 7th to COL for Ondrej Pavel + 3rd
Kaapo Kakko to SEA for Will Borgen + 3rd + 6th
Philip Tomasino to PIT for a 4th
Patrik Laine + 2nd for Jordan Harris
Ryan McLeod + Tyler Tullio for Matthew Savoie
Robby Fabbri + 4th to ANA for Alexander Gage
Mathieu Joseph + 3rd to STL for future considerations
Reilly Smith to NYR for a 2nd + 5th
Paul Cotter + 3rd to NJD for Alex Holtz + Akira Schmid
Kevin Hayes + 2nd to PIT for future considerations
Alex Texier to STL for a 4th
Andrew Mangiapane to WSH for a 2nd
Ilya Mikheyev + Sam Lafferty + 22nd to CHI for a 4th
Jason Zucker to NSH for a 6th
Evgeny Kuznetsov to CAR for a 3rd
Jack Roslovic to NYR for a 4th
Anthony Duclair + 7th to TBL for Jack Thompson + 3rd
Anthony Beauvillier to NSH for a 5th
Alex Wennberg to NYR for a 2nd + 4th
Vladimir Tarasenko to FLA for a 3rd + 4th
Anthony Mantha to Vegas for a 2nd + 4th
Tomas Tatar to COL for a 5th
Kaapo Kakko to SEA for Will Borgen + 3rd + 6th
Philip Tomasino to PIT for a 4th
Patrik Laine + 2nd for Jordan Harris
Ryan McLeod + Tyler Tullio for Matthew Savoie
Robby Fabbri + 4th to ANA for Alexander Gage
Mathieu Joseph + 3rd to STL for future considerations
Reilly Smith to NYR for a 2nd + 5th
Paul Cotter + 3rd to NJD for Alex Holtz + Akira Schmid
Kevin Hayes + 2nd to PIT for future considerations
Alex Texier to STL for a 4th
Andrew Mangiapane to WSH for a 2nd
Ilya Mikheyev + Sam Lafferty + 22nd to CHI for a 4th
Jason Zucker to NSH for a 6th
Evgeny Kuznetsov to CAR for a 3rd
Jack Roslovic to NYR for a 4th
Anthony Duclair + 7th to TBL for Jack Thompson + 3rd
Anthony Beauvillier to NSH for a 5th
Alex Wennberg to NYR for a 2nd + 4th
Vladimir Tarasenko to FLA for a 3rd + 4th
Anthony Mantha to Vegas for a 2nd + 4th
Tomas Tatar to COL for a 5th
The Devilish Buffoon
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aragorn
Do The Right Thing
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When we look at this current team, 9 of the players on this roster have been drafted by Ottawa & their young players are their best players & they have a young team. If we add Ostapchuk & Merilainen two more young players that's 11 players. That seems to be a pretty good drafting record. And Yakemchuk is most likely going to be an NHL player making it 12 players in the current org & maybe Halliday & Montgomery too.
Have they made mistakes? Of course, every team has made mistakes at the draft table in almost every draft, every yr where a better player gets picked after they draft. When another team picks a certain player after Ottawa & that player turns out to be better than Ottawa's player, that's just one of those things that happens all the time. The same has happened for Ottawa, how many teams ahead of Ottawa are pissed off they didn't draft Tkachuk, Stutzle or Sanderson our three top players? How many teams are pissed they didn't draft Batherson when they had several rds to do it? These things happen all the time, if Staois doesn't like the scouting department why hasn't he replaced them? He has had plenty of time to do it.
Have they made mistakes? Of course, every team has made mistakes at the draft table in almost every draft, every yr where a better player gets picked after they draft. When another team picks a certain player after Ottawa & that player turns out to be better than Ottawa's player, that's just one of those things that happens all the time. The same has happened for Ottawa, how many teams ahead of Ottawa are pissed off they didn't draft Tkachuk, Stutzle or Sanderson our three top players? How many teams are pissed they didn't draft Batherson when they had several rds to do it? These things happen all the time, if Staois doesn't like the scouting department why hasn't he replaced them? He has had plenty of time to do it.
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aragorn
Do The Right Thing
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They did draft Yakemchuk who is projected to be a top 4 D.
Probably a free agency signing when it won't cost any assets & they have allowed a number of the UFAs to walk freeing up some money.
Alf Silfversson
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- Jun 8, 2011
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Hopefully Rob DiMaio can bring some of that expertise and advise Staios that a shakeup is needed.
Yeah I think our drafting issues are overblown.
IMO they are too stuck on specific prototypes and need to get more creative at the draft table and stop restricting themselves but I don’t think our drafting is bad by any means. It’s just frustrating because they have a decent base and it feels like an area we could do even better in if they made some adjustments.
My answer to any of these trades for picks is “cap space”. Which we don’t have.
But he isn’t one. When and if he becomes one I will add him to the list. Also when and if he becomes one this team might look radically different lol.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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You had previously said
Yakemchuk is a “potential “ top 4 guy.
Sanderson isn’t a potential top 4, he is one.
branch
#GirlBoss #Vibes
- Jan 12, 2008
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You’re right
Okay 2.
1 actual. Still doesn’t look great.
But in the 6 years of rebuild they’ve actually drafted 1 guy who could play top 4 hockey.
I
What's the quality of the draft picks and question. And, what were the alternative selections?
2018 1st round picks: 4OA and 26OA
Drafted Tkachuk and JBD. I guess if you wanna split hairs, we could have done marginally better by drafting Sandin instead of JBD. At 4OA, we could have drafted Quinn Hughes instead of Brady.
2019 1st round picks: 19OA
Drafted Lassi Thomson. D drafted in the first round after Thomson: Heinola, Bjornfot and Johnson. Hard to make any sort of argument that we really whiffed here. It was a top heavy draft with almost no quality depth.
2020 1st round picks: 3OA, 5OA, 28OA.
Drafted Stutzle, Sanderson and Grieg. We know the top of the draft so no need to rehash those picks. Which D could we have taken with the Greig selection? Wallinder, Grans and O'Rourke are the 3 D taken before we get to Kleven and Faber.
2021 1st round picks: 10OA
Drafted Tyler Boucher. We know Boucher has not worked out. Which D could we have taken with that pick? Ceulemans (25OA), Lambos (26OA), Mailloux (31OA) or Allan (32OA)?
2022 1st round picks: none
2023 1st round picks: none
2024 1st round picks: 7OA
Too early to pass any kind of definitive judgement.
2018 2nd round picks: 48OA
Drafted Tychonick. Missed on Marchenko (F) and Durzi (D).
2019 2nd round picks: 32OA, 37OA
Drafted Pinto and Sogaard. Pinto pick is solid. Sogaard has not developed as we hoped but is still young by the position's standards. "Notable" names drafted in the 2nd round after Sogaard: Hoglander (40), Nick Robertson (53), Leason (56).
2020 2nd round picks: 33OA, 44OA
Drafted Jarventie and Kleven. Huge misses on Peterka (34) and Faber (45). Apart from those 2 players, no one else who went in the 2nd round has made much of a name for themselves.
2021 2nd round picks: 39OA, 49OA
Drafted Ostapchuk and Roger. It looks like Ostapchuk will end up being a good role player for us with some more development and there is not a single player of note until Stankoven at 47. Roger was a major fail. Knies at 57 and Moser at 60 were misses.
2022, 2023 and 2024 2nd round picks
Too early to say anything of note.
Overall, there were some hits, some misses and a whole lot of nothing to pick from in between. The quality of the drafts that coincided with our rebuilding window have been absolutely dreadful. There should be deserved criticism of missing on Peterka for Jarventie. The rest? I don't know. Feels like a stretch to be especially criticial of the misses.
Puikiou
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Umm don't know... Kakko, Dubois, Laine, Roslovic, Cotter, Tomasino, R. Smith, Mikheyev and Mangiapane (just to name a those) would look quite good playing alongside Stützle and most definitely register as "top 6" forwards for this team.
We're moving the goal posts here.
Your argument was that it's difficult/expensive (assets wise) to acquire top 6 wingers. I pointed out the fact that (with competent management) it's really not.
Cap space is a completely separate issue and again, competent management would have identified the need for a top 6 winger and put itself in a position to take advantage of the plentiful wingers' market by leaving itself some cap space. Instead, we showered marginal players like Perron and Amadio with millions for their "character".
Even with the lack of cap space (1.66M available today according to Puckpedia), is not an insurmountable hurdle to find a top 6 winger. A money in, money out trade could be pursued (see Dubois, Pierre-Luc). Or we could go after cheaper top 6 options (cap space wise) a la Philip Tomasino or Paul Cotter.
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
- Brady Tkachuk (3 years 8.2M, NMC July 1st)
- Josh Norris (5 years 8M)
- 2026 FLA 3rd Round Pick
- Alexis Lafreniere (7 years 7.45M)
- Chris Kreider (2 years 6.5M)*
- Braden Schneider (1 years 2.2M)
- 8M USD Cash (Rangers send Lafreniere to OTT after July 1st to pay his bonus and complete the trade.)
- 2026 1st Round Pick (Lottery Protected)
- 2027 2nd Round Pick (Upgrades to a 1st if Rangers make the conference final or finish 1st in their division)
- Gabe Perreault or Brennan Othmann (or any one prospect in the Rangers organization).
*Kreider goes to Ottawa if they aren't on his no trade list. If they are, the Rangers send him to a different team and send Ottawa whatever the return is for Kreider.
That's the return for Tkachuk according to fake insiders. Just trying to confirm with fake league executives. Matthew on the Fallon show has pushed things forward. Brady wants to be on Carson Daly by the end of the year.
This could actually work at the TDL since the Rangers accrued a lot of cap space. Except, the cash component wouldn't be possible since it's too far away from July 1st.
It's similar to EK+Bobby to the Golden Knights. We're assuming there is no market for Norris, and for whatever reason Staios is compelled to move on from the liability of that contract despite Norris still being a good player. While it would not be presented that way to the public, taking Norris is part of the return.
Lafreniere will be a hit with all the Canadiens fans here.
As far as why the Rangers do this, they could legitimately pull this off at the TDL and it wouldn't hurt them at all. They would have to go out and find a D as a rental acquisition. Maybe we send them JBD or they go out and get a depth D, but while Schneider has a fantastic trajectory he still is only really used as a #5 for them. Brady+Norris in and Kreider+Lafreniere out is big upgrade leading into the playoffs.
They are basically giving up a probable late 1st+2nd+Schneider and Perrault to turn Lafreniere+Kreider into the most marketable American player in the game right now and his buddy.
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If we had to trade Tkachuk I would be fine with this deal. I think it makes sense for both sides honestly.
- Brady Tkachuk (3 years 8.2M, NMC July 1st)
- Josh Norris (5 years 8M)
- 2026 FLA 3rd Round Pick
- Alexis Lafreniere (7 years 7.45M)
- Chris Kreider (2 years 6.5M)*
- Braden Schneider (1 years 2.2M)
- 8M USD Cash (Rangers send Lafreniere to OTT after July 1st to pay his bonus and complete the trade.)
- 2026 1st Round Pick (Lottery Protected)
- 2027 2nd Round Pick (Upgrades to a 1st if Rangers make the conference final or finish 1st in their division)
- Gabe Perreault or Brennan Othmann (or any one prospect in the Rangers organization).
*Kreider goes to Ottawa if they aren't on his no trade list. If they are, the Rangers send him to a different team and send Ottawa whatever the return is for Kreider.
That's the return for Tkachuk according to fake insiders. Just trying to confirm with fake league executives. Matthew on the Fallon show has pushed things forward. Brady wants to be on Carson Daly by the end of the year.
This could actually work at the TDL since the Rangers accrued a lot of cap space. Except, the cash component wouldn't be possible since it's too far away from July 1st.
It's similar to EK+Bobby to the Golden Knights. We're assuming there is no market for Norris, and for whatever reason Staios is compelled to move on from the liability of that contract despite Norris still being a good player. While it would not be presented that way to the public, taking Norris is part of the return.
Lafreniere will be a hit with all the Canadiens fans here.
As far as why the Rangers do this, they could legitimately pull this off at the TDL and it wouldn't hurt them at all. They would have to go out and find a D as a rental acquisition. Maybe we send them JBD or they go out and get a depth D, but while Schneider has a fantastic trajectory he still is only really used as a #5 for them. Brady+Norris in and Kreider+Lafreniere out is big upgrade leading into the playoffs.
They are basically giving up a probable late 1st+2nd+Schneider and Perrault to turn Lafreniere+Kreider into the most marketable American player in the game right now and his buddy.
- Brady Tkachuk (3 years 8.2M, NMC July 1st)
- Josh Norris (5 years 8M)
- 2026 FLA 3rd Round Pick
- Alexis Lafreniere (7 years 7.45M)
- Chris Kreider (2 years 6.5M)*
- Braden Schneider (1 years 2.2M)
- 8M USD Cash (Rangers send Lafreniere to OTT after July 1st to pay his bonus and complete the trade.)
- 2026 1st Round Pick (Lottery Protected)
- 2027 2nd Round Pick (Upgrades to a 1st if Rangers make the conference final or finish 1st in their division)
- Gabe Perreault or Brennan Othmann (or any one prospect in the Rangers organization).
*Kreider goes to Ottawa if they aren't on his no trade list. If they are, the Rangers send him to a different team and send Ottawa whatever the return is for Kreider.
That's the return for Tkachuk according to fake insiders. Just trying to confirm with fake league executives. Matthew on the Fallon show has pushed things forward. Brady wants to be on Carson Daly by the end of the year.
This could actually work at the TDL since the Rangers accrued a lot of cap space. Except, the cash component wouldn't be possible since it's too far away from July 1st.
Lafreniere will be a hit with all the Canadiens fans here.
Don't think it needs to be more complicated than Tkachuk for Lafreniere + other assets.
Rangers really don't need Norris after acquriing Miller. They have him, Zibanejad and Trocheck all signed for multiple years.
Interesting point about Lafreniere's bonus. Didn't realize he gets 8M on July 1st.
If the Rangers paid that bonus he'd only be owed 44.15M for the next 7 years, which works out to about 6.3M per year.
That's definitely more attractive for a team that's likely going to be dealing with an internal budget in coming years.
I think a logical return for Tkachuk if traded to NY would be something like Lafreniere, Cuylle, 2026 1st.
I imagine they'd hate to include Cuylle in the deal, as he's been great for them this year, but you have to give to get and he'd be a solid powerforward replacement at LW to help make up for the loss of Tkachuk, both in terms of goal scoring and physicality.
I imagine they'd hate to include Cuylle in the deal, as he's been great for them this year, but you have to give to get and he'd be a solid powerforward replacement at LW to help make up for the loss of Tkachuk, both in terms of goal scoring and physicality.
Puikiou
Registered User
- Oct 15, 2013
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- 2,689
This is actually very good and quite balanced for both teams. Great job @frightenedinmatenum2
- Brady Tkachuk (3 years 8.2M, NMC July 1st)
- Josh Norris (5 years 8M)
- 2026 FLA 3rd Round Pick
- Alexis Lafreniere (7 years 7.45M)
- Chris Kreider (2 years 6.5M)*
- Braden Schneider (1 years 2.2M)
- 8M USD Cash (Rangers send Lafreniere to OTT after July 1st to pay his bonus and complete the trade.)
- 2026 1st Round Pick (Lottery Protected)
- 2027 2nd Round Pick (Upgrades to a 1st if Rangers make the conference final or finish 1st in their division)
- Gabe Perreault or Brennan Othmann (or any one prospect in the Rangers organization).
*Kreider goes to Ottawa if they aren't on his no trade list. If they are, the Rangers send him to a different team and send Ottawa whatever the return is for Kreider.
That's the return for Tkachuk according to fake insiders. Just trying to confirm with fake league executives. Matthew on the Fallon show has pushed things forward. Brady wants to be on Carson Daly by the end of the year.
This could actually work at the TDL since the Rangers accrued a lot of cap space. Except, the cash component wouldn't be possible since it's too far away from July 1st.
It's similar to EK+Bobby to the Golden Knights. We're assuming there is no market for Norris, and for whatever reason Staios is compelled to move on from the liability of that contract despite Norris still being a good player. While it would not be presented that way to the public, taking Norris is part of the return.
Lafreniere will be a hit with all the Canadiens fans here.
As far as why the Rangers do this, they could legitimately pull this off at the TDL and it wouldn't hurt them at all. They would have to go out and find a D as a rental acquisition. Maybe we send them JBD or they go out and get a depth D, but while Schneider has a fantastic trajectory he still is only really used as a #5 for them. Brady+Norris in and Kreider+Lafreniere out is big upgrade leading into the playoffs.
They are basically giving up a probable late 1st+2nd+Schneider and Perrault to turn Lafreniere+Kreider into the most marketable American player in the game right now and his buddy.
Just one change: the 2026 1st would absolutely have to be unprotected, since it's 2 drafts away and we're trading our captain/face of the franchise to a conference rival.
Also, Perreault over Othman without a contest. The former is the smartest playmaking prospect in the league and would replace Giroux wonderfully. Again, great job!
2026-2027
Lafrenière - Stützle - Perreault
Kreider - Pinto - Batherson
Halliday - Greig - Giroux (3.5M)
Amadio - Ostapchuk - Perron
Gregor/Cousins
Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Jensen
Kleven - Schneider
Matinpalo/Yakemchuk
Merilainen
Ullmark
Lafrenière - Stützle - Perreault
Kreider - Pinto - Batherson
Halliday - Greig - Giroux (3.5M)
Amadio - Ostapchuk - Perron
Gregor/Cousins
Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Jensen
Kleven - Schneider
Matinpalo/Yakemchuk
Merilainen
Ullmark
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No goal posts have been moved. You want to acquire a top 6 winger. I said every difficult. Likely to be done in the free agency (which I think we will do).
You listed off a bunch of guys that were had for draft picks. Again not really possible at this moment.
frightenedinmatenum2
Registered User
I agree with what you're saying, but I get the impression that the Senators badly want to get out of the Norris contract. Getting out of the Norris contract would be a big point of value for Ottawa if there is no market for him without serious cap considerations.
The way I wrote it out overcomplicates it, but it's basically Tkachuk+Norris for Lafreniere+Schneider+Picks & Prospects.
The simplified version of the Kreider component is that Ottawa would take Kreider if he cannot block a trade to them, if he can the Rangers would trade him somewhere else as a complimentary move.
This is actually very good and quite balanced for both teams. Great job @frightenedinmatenum2
Just one change: the 2026 1st would absolutely have to be unprotected, since it's 2 drafts away and we're trading our captain/face of the franchise to a conference rival.
Also, Perreault over Othman without a contest. The former is the smartest playmaking prospect in the league and would replace Giroux wonderfully. Again, great job!
2026-2027
Lafrenière - Stützle - Perreault
Kreider - Pinto - Batherson
Halliday - Greig - Giroux (3.5M)
Amadio - Ostapchuk - Perron
Gregor/Cousins
Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Jensen
Kleven - Schneider
Matinpalo/Yakemchuk
Merilainen
Ullmark
If this is done in the summer, it would be one draft away.
If this is done at the TDL, I agree that you're probably right.
I think that the Rangers almost certainly win the trade, because the only possible way it could go bad would be if Tkachuk has a career altering injury like Karlsson did - but the Senators adding 3 young and partly cost controlled pieces along with getting out from the Norris contract and adding some picks+prospects to restock from what Dorion gave up by going all in to polish the team up for a sale would be more helpful to the team than risking that Brady is unhappy a year into his NMC and the return becomes much less.
