Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Micklebot]

It's not just Brown. Almost every player we've traded in the last 15 years has not returned as much as the fans on HF thought they would get.

Not sure how many times people need to be disappointed before expectations get tempered.

Dzingel, Duchene, and Pageau all met or beat expectations for a return. People thought we'd have to pay way more than we did to dump Murray. I'd include Dadonov but Dorion had to lie to make that happen so maybe not a great example.

Part of the issue we've had is we often are trying to trade guys with NTC or in the case of DeBrincat, a defacto NTC where his QO would have given him an absurd 9m 1 yr deal, but that's not the case here

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Dzingel, Duchene, and Pageau all met or beat expectations for a return. People thought we'd have to pay way more than we did to dump Murray. I'd include Dadonov but Dorion had to lie to make that happen so maybe not a great example.

Part of the issue we've had is we often are trying to trade guys with NTC or in the case of DeBrincat, a defacto NTC where his QO would have given him an absurd 9m 1 yr deal, but that's not the case here

Duchene beat expectations? A first and throwaway prospect?

Pageau I thought brought what players like him bring.

Dzingel brought two seconds and a player that people thought was finished.

 

[Micklebot]

Duchene beat expectations? A first and throwaway prospect?

Pageau I thought brought what players like him bring.

Dzingel brought two seconds and a player that people thought was finished.

Well, I did say met or beat, and yes, as a UFA, Duchene getting a 1st, a conditional 1st if he re-signed, plus 2 prospects that while not A tier, had shown enough to look like they had some potential, met expectations. Absolutely.

Pageau was a career third liner (a very good one) who was having an outlier season, and he got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, with no retention, that's a great return for a UFA when you look beyond one season. Tyler Tofolli recently got a 2nd and 3rd with 50% retention. Bertuzzi got a 1st and a 3rd with 50% retention

Dzingel got two seconds, which again, is pretty damn solid for a one dimensional winger. See Tyler Toffoli if you want to see what offensive wingers generally get.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well, I did say met or beat, and yes, as a UFA, Duchene getting a 1st, a conditional 1st if he re-signed, plus 2 prospects that while not A tier, had shown enough to look like they had some potential, met expectations. Absolutely.

Pageau was a career third liner (a very good one) who was having an outlier season, and he got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd, with no retention, that's a great return for a UFA when you look beyond one season. Tyler Tofolli recently got a 2nd and 3rd with 50% retention. Bertuzzi got a 1st and a 3rd with 50% retention

Dzingel got two seconds, which again, is pretty damn solid for a one dimensional winger. See Tyler Toffoli if you want to see what offensive wingers generally get.

It was different time. Right now the prices suck. Lots of players went for nothing this season that I thought would bring more.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

With the cap going up for the first time in years, it could be a seller's market, which is both good and bad for us since we will be a mix of a buyer and seller.

What will happen is that free agents are going to get big contracts. Higher AAV than expected, and higher term. So for example, if you're a team who wants a top 9 forward but you don't want to commit 3-5 years of cap flexibility to overpay on the open market, maybe you throw Ottawa a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Joseph, a player who was unmoveable last offseason under the tighter cap, but is desirable now partly because he is only signed 2 years at 3M. You can get a top 9 winger, and maybe he isn't your first choice, but you burn the draft pick to avoid having to commit more years and money to a comparable free agent.

Same deal with Forsberg. Is Forsberg the first choice of any team? No. But if you're looking for a 2nd goalie with NHL experience, and the few available as free agents require multi-year commitments, maybe you turn to Forsberg. His AAV might be a bit higher than a free agent veteran goalie, but the few options available would require term. So a team can send us a 4th to 7th round type pick, and know that Forsberg is off the books after a year.

I don't think this will apply to Chychrun, because in a perfect scenario, we try to find a team he will extend with to maximize his value.

 

[Big Muddy]

I’d wonder if Boston will make a splash this deadline - maybe something like Stamkos, Marner or a good center? They need offense.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

My expectation may have been off, but I absolutely loved Brown as a Senator. 50P/82GP without significant time on the #1 PP is excellent, and we all know how amazing he was defensively and on the PK.

That's clearly top 6 quality performance, whether or not teams considered him a true top 6 player or a more ideal fit on the 3rd line.

He was really good here. He and Paul were close as well. The version of Connor Brown that played here is exactly what the team should be looking to add to the lineup.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Not sure how you figure that's "all our assets", and you seem to be missing the 12th OVR pick being in the deal.

Chychrun gets a late 1st or a couple 2nds max, which is well below what Bonk is worth having just been selected 22nd OVR and having a successful draft+1 season where he had over a PPG from the blueline.

Joseph and Laughton are similar quality players but we're one season removed from teams offering multiple 1st round quality pieces for Laughton and teams asking for a 1st to take on Joseph's contract, so I don't think their value is the same around the league even if I personally don't see much of a difference between the two.

Big gap in value between 7 and 12 obviously. I'd guess two 2nds at least, but considering the difference in value between the other assets it's probably a fair deal on paper.

I wouldn't do it but that's a deal that wouldn't shock me if it happened.

I mean from a value aspect it’s all our best assets and we really don’t improve at all next year that’s what I don’t like the trade.

Drop back 5 spots while trading Chychrun for Bonk while swapping Joseph for Laughton we gotta do better or we are screwed.

I much rather have:

Chychrun
7th overall
Joseph

Over
Laughton
Bonk
#12

 

[Hale The Villain]

I mean from a value aspect it’s all our best assets and we really don’t improve at all next year that’s what I don’t like the trade.

Drop back 5 spots while trading Chychrun for Bonk while swapping Joseph for Laughton we gotta do better or we are screwed.

I much rather have:

Chychrun
7th overall
Joseph

Over
Laughton
Bonk
#12

Fair enough.

I wouldn't like the trade myself. Would much prefer keeping Joseph and not paying anything for Laughton.

But I'd be fine moving back to 12 if we could pick up Bonk. Would even throw in a small plus to make it happen.

 

[Blotto71]

I am not pushing the trade. Just answering the question with my opinion. I posted exactly 1 word on the topic. I need to be told how great he is because of that. Cool.


So we have to prove things now lol.

I stand by the opinion that Laughton is a hiqher IQ player than Joseph. But you can prove me wrong if you like. I also think they are very different players and can offer different things on and off the ice. I do not know of any off ice issues with Joseph other than the one game DJ held him out. Now we move to swapping 3rd liners and the expected outcome.. none of which I commented on.. As I said they are different players so they are difficult to compare in isolation, and I do not know what to expect. I think the needle gets moved with adding another veteran for intangibles that can help the group .. I think they did say they wanted to do that..... Now I have no idea why they want to move Joseph to accomplish that if in fact that is what is at play..

SoA - I apologize that my post came off as a challenge, not my intent (in fact, I edited it prior to posting trying to avoid just this reaction). Fail on my part.

I did not think you were pushing the trade, and instead were offering some rationale for why the Sens might make the deal. My response was only meant to highlight that Joseph filled a L3 role very well the first half, but not so much the 2nd following return from injury. My statement regarding dealing him due to locker room issues was only a way to acknowledge another poster's comment that Joseph was an issue, and I was expressing that if that were true then so be it, move on from him.

The Capfriendly scouting report for Laughton (March 4, 2024) rates his hockey IQ at 85. Joseph on Feb 27, 2024 got an 84. Both had an overall ranking of 82, which for the purpose of this conversation doesn't mean much because they are different and got there differently.

For my money, I'd prefer keeping Joseph and adding some combo of Appleton, Barron, Bauer from Winnipeg in return for Chychrun. Or adding Sherwood in FA if Appleton was unavailable.

Joseph - Greig - Appleton/Sherwood is a 3rd line that makes life difficult for any opposition.

Cheers!

 

[ottawagm]

What about a deal around

Chychrun + Joseph -> Laughton + Konecny

Might have to add picks.

 

[Blotto71]

I would love for people convinced Chychrun will get a 1st+ to make a list of teams they think:

1. Would be interested in Chychrun
2. Have 4.6M in cap space to fit him in
3. Have room on their top two pairings at LD
4. Have a spot open on one of their top 2 powerplay units for him to play as QB
5. Have disposable assets to trade for him

It's a very short list. Most teams already have two good left-handed defensemen, there's a surplus around the league of offensive D who can QB a PP.

We made the mistake of trading for him without satisfying requirements 2 and 4, which is why he hasn't worked out well and why it makes sense to trade him. Don't think another team will make that mistake knowing how it turned out for us.

I feel like Winnipeg fits the bill. But not for Ehlers! Crazy as it might sound I'd prefer a bouquet of pieces that fill bottom 6/bottom pairing needs.

Chychrun + ? For Appleton, Barron, Bauer

That ? Could be any of the non-first round picks the Sens have, Forsberg, Crookshank, Kelly, Boucher, JBD, Hamara, Hamonic (he might like a run as 7D with a contender), Kastelic...

A better 3rd line is critical to the improvement of the Sens top-6, imo. They have to be able to take shifts in any zone and give the opposition fits if they cannot score themselves.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I’d wonder if Boston will make a splash this deadline - maybe something like Stamkos, Marner or a good center? They need offense.

If I'm Utah, I go big after Stamkos, and also try to acquire Tavares after his bonus is paid by Toronto.

They would be big names to new and casual fans. Utah isn't going to turn around and be a contender in year 1, but they have a very solid base.

If you're Stamkos and Utah offers you a big 1 year deal, what do you have to lose? At worst, it's a 6 month excursion to Utah before they trade him to a playoff team of his choosing at the deadline (think Tarasenko here).

Assuming they have the go ahead to spend to the cap, load up on big stars on 1 year deals and then either make the playoffs or if not, trade them for more draft picks...

They need to use those picks to trade for long term corner stones as well, but that's not an overnight thing.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Would you guys consider:

#7
#26
Chychrun
Korpisalo

Andersson (2 years left but if you knew he would sign longterm)
Kadri
Markstrom

We would trade Joseph for pick(s) to make cap work.
$87.5 million

F 52.5
Tkachuk 8 Stutzle 8 Giroux 6.5
Norris 8 Kadri 7 Batherson 5
Greg 1 Pinto 3 1
1 Kastelic 1 1

D 26.5
Sandy 8 Zub 4
Chabot 8 Anderson 4.5
Kleven 1. ? 1

G 8.5
Markstrom 6
Forsberg 2.5

I just can’t decide. It seems to have everything we are looking for….but…

 

[Sens9292]

lol at Chychrun value being a 2nd. Ridiculous.

He’s worth way more, he’s starting to get undervalued here in Ottawa.

No that's the f***ing min or you play out the season with him. These takes are fit for a 10 year old or a leafs fan. A second for Chychrun? Some dumb shit being said here today and I work retail ffs

He would get a first at next years deadline guaranteed

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

There is no way Chychrun is not worth at least a late 1st.

There are a lot of defensemen available in free agency, but you have to keep in mind that someone leaving a team sometimes opens up the need for that team to replace them. So even know there are options for other teams, it's more just a game of musical chairs, and there will still be teams who need to trade for defensemen.

Plus, we're signing Tanev - so that takes one off the market.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Would you guys consider:

#7
#26
Chychrun
Korpisalo

Andersson (2 years left but if you knew he would sign longterm)
Kadri
Markstrom

We would trade Joseph for pick(s) to make cap work.
$87.5 million

F 52.5
Tkachuk 8 Stutzle 8 Giroux 6.5
Norris 8 Kadri 7 Batherson 5
Greg 1 Pinto 3 1
1 Kastelic 1 1

D 26.5
Sandy 8 Zub 4
Chabot 8 Anderson 4.5
Kleven 1. ? 1

G 8.5
Markstrom 6
Forsberg 2.5

I just can’t decide. It seems to have everything we are looking for….but…

I'd rather offer;

26th + 2nd rounder + Chychrun + Korpisalo for Andersson and Markstrom.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Would you guys consider:

#7
#26
Chychrun
Korpisalo

Andersson (2 years left but if you knew he would sign longterm)
Kadri
Markstrom

We would trade Joseph for pick(s) to make cap work.
$87.5 million

F 52.5
Tkachuk 8 Stutzle 8 Giroux 6.5
Norris 8 Kadri 7 Batherson 5
Greg 1 Pinto 3 1
1 Kastelic 1 1

D 26.5
Sandy 8 Zub 4
Chabot 8 Anderson 4.5
Kleven 1. ? 1

G 8.5
Markstrom 6
Forsberg 2.5

I just can’t decide. It seems to have everything we are looking for….but…

I wouldn’t , need some depth in pipeline.

Sanderson AAV will be 8.8 this year, with the carry over from last year.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He was really good here. He and Paul were close as well. The version of Connor Brown that played here is exactly what the team should be looking to add to the lineup.

I don’t know brown without the opportunities helps this team ? Or puts us anywhere

There is no way Chychrun is not worth at least a late 1st.

There are a lot of defensemen available in free agency, but you have to keep in mind that someone leaving a team sometimes opens up the need for that team to replace them. So even know there are options for other teams, it's more just a game of musical chairs, and there will still be teams who need to trade for defensemen.

Plus, we're signing Tanev - so that takes one off the market.

View attachment 883452

people like to hate and a great way to dig a player is to pretend his trade value is zero

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don’t know brown without the opportunities helps this team ? Or puts us anywhere

I agree with a bunch of what you said but not with what you meant,
'

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I don’t know brown without the opportunities helps this team ? Or puts us anywhere

people like to hate and a great way to dig a player is to pretend his trade value is zero

I know, I see it all the time with players like Ceci.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Chychrun is worth a 1st+, the issue is, as Hale alluded to earlier, finding enough teams that are interested in him and have the cap space+roster space for him.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think Nashville is the team that makes the most sense by far as a Chychrun suitor.

They just dealt McDonagh for a 2nd, not because they have great depth at LD, but rather because they wanted to do him and his family a favour by letting them go home to Tampa.

That opened up 6.75M and a 2nd pairing LD spot. They currently have 26M in cap space with Carrier as the biggest name to re-sign.

They are in a re-tool and are trying to get younger while still competing for a playoff spot. Chychrun being 26 will have more value to them than contenders, and basically all of the other quality LD that may be available on July 1st are in their 30s. Could probably extend him right away too.

They have 5 2nds and 3 1sts over the next 2 years. Could see them offering Tampa's 1st (playoff protected) in 2025 or a couple 2nds in 2024/2025. Maybe Fabbro/Schenn could be a piece in the deal if they manage to re-sign Carrier and sign Pesce, who they've been after for awhile.

 

[Blotto71]

Would you guys consider:

#7
#26
Chychrun
Korpisalo

Andersson (2 years left but if you knew he would sign longterm)
Kadri
Markstrom

We would trade Joseph for pick(s) to make cap work.
$87.5 million

F 52.5
Tkachuk 8 Stutzle 8 Giroux 6.5
Norris 8 Kadri 7 Batherson 5
Greg 1 Pinto 3 1
1 Kastelic 1 1

D 26.5
Sandy 8 Zub 4
Chabot 8 Anderson 4.5
Kleven 1. ? 1

G 8.5
Markstrom 6
Forsberg 2.5

I just can’t decide. It seems to have everything we are looking for….but…

f*** yeah. Sign Sherwood for L3 RW and I'm thinking we have a pretty competitive team.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I agree with a bunch of what you said but not with what you meant,
'

I started writing the post but then realized I agreed with you more than disagreed. And thought I cancelled it. Guess not lol