Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Beech]

I don't think most believed in what they were doing in general though. Tons of criticism of their operation and their decisions in bubbles. That doesn't mean some of the more bold stuff wasn't met with excitement and the fans weren't starved for some competitive hockey after essentially folding for years.

The Dadonov/Murray summer seemed like a time the team was willing to spend some dough. They were both relatively short term deals too, so I think most were excited by the idea the team wasn't just playing broke rebuild team anymore. Cautious optimism it felt like.

The DeBrincat move wasn't exposed as being so bad until we knew he was a bad fit, had telegraphed and exit from the beginning, and Dorion went through with it despite being denied talking to their camp after he requested. That changes a lot there. Assumption obviously wasn't that we'd be selling low on him 1 year later.

The Chychrun move could have been solid, but it seems the pro scouting let us down. He's clearly not the player he was assumed to be. I think what's important to note with Chychrun is that regardless of what fans thought of the player, Dorion once again put himself in a position of a big acquisition of a player with not much runway. He basically had 2 years left after they finished out that one he was acquired during. It burned him again like it did with Duchene and DeBrincat.

I disagree. The 95% casual fan, ate this up. Like soup on a cold winter day.
The 5% diehard, was mixed. For some reason, the Cat was now seen as Mike Bossy. This guy who was going to fill the net with pucks..
Chyc was supported by all.. A boy with local ties, a stud Dman. We all ate it up.

the reality is, the CAT and Chyc were part of a storm. A failed rebuild, showing signs of collapsing. (Logan Brown gone, Colin White gone, JBD and Thomson stalled, Formenton on his way out) 5 pieces, assumed to be cornerstones fizzled. So now, panic and trade. All the while the apple needs polishing to be sold and the present owner is losing 30 M a year.

 

[stempniaksen]

I think it was @Micklebot who posted projections from Dobber on the price of the upcoming UFA class. I think the dailyfaceoff article that just dropped has some better #'s (especially for the shutdown defencemen).

UFA Projections: How much money did Canucks’ Elias Lindholm cost himself this year?

Daily Faceoff’s Top 75 free agents lists includes major movement in projected contract values.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Some guys that might interest the Sens (and their projected cap #):

Brett Pesce: 5 x $6.25M
Matt Roy: 5 x $5.8M
Dylan Demelo: 4 x $5.3M
Chris Tanev: 3 x $3.7
Jalen Chatfield: 3 x $3.65M
Alex Carrier: 3 x $4M
Tyler Myers: 2 x $3.1M
Matt Dumba: 3 x $3M
Jani Hakapaa: 1 x $1.5M
Vincent Desharnais: 1 x $1.1M

I'd be absolutely fine budgeting $12M for 2-3 of those guys and letting the chips fall where they may up front.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I think it was @Micklebot who posted projections from Dobber on the price of the upcoming UFA class. I think the dailyfaceoff article that just dropped has some better #'s (especially for the shutdown defencemen).

UFA Projections: How much money did Canucks’ Elias Lindholm cost himself this year?

Daily Faceoff’s Top 75 free agents lists includes major movement in projected contract values.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Some guys that might interest the Sens (and their projected cap #):

Brett Pesce: 5 x $6.25M
Matt Roy: 5 x $5.8M
Dylan Demelo: 4 x $5.3M
Chris Tanev: 3 x $3.7
Jalen Chatfield: 3 x $3.65M
Alex Carrier: 3 x $4M
Tyler Myers: 2 x $3.1M
Matt Dumba: 3 x $3M
Jani Hakapaa: 1 x $1.5M
Vincent Desharnais: 1 x $1.1M

I'd be absolutely fine budgeting $12M for 2-3 of those guys and letting the chips fall where they may up front.

Looks fairly reasonable, but add 0.5-1M a year to those contracts as a Sens tax.

We don't get those players at those numbers unfortunately due to bad weather, higher taxes, arena in the middle of nowhere, etc...

The only one that looks cheap is Tanev. No idea why they think he'll only get 11.1M over 3 years. He's been nothing short of incredible in the playoffs.

Would gladly pay him 5M x 3YRs or even 6M x 2YRs.

 

[stempniaksen]

Looks fairly reasonable, but add 0.5-1M a year to those contracts as a Sens tax.

We don't get those players at those numbers unfortunately due to bad weather, higher taxes, arena in the middle of nowhere, etc...

The only one that looks cheap is Tanev. No idea why they think he'll only get 11.1M over 3 years. He's been nothing short of incredible in the playoffs.

Would gladly pay him 5M x 3YRs or even 6M x 2YRs.

The Tanev one seemed particularly low to me as well and I'd also happily give him 3x5 and cross my fingers that the 3rd year isn't a mistake. I have a feeling these projections include defensive impact but leave out "intagibles" and some GMs are going to value Tanev for that.

This team needs one of the top-four guys listed or it'll be another long season, imo. Obviously I'm not including the possibility of trading for a RD here.

I'm not usually one to be pro-trading for rights but in the case of Pesce, Roy, Demelo, Tanev I wouldn't mind the team moving a mid round pick for the right to talk to them early and sell them on their vision of the team moving forward.

Those projected numbers also seem kinda low for Hakapaa/Desharnais but I'd give them a combined $3M/year just to solidify the right side in case of injury.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I disagree. The 95% casual fan, ate this up. Like soup on a cold winter day.
The 5% diehard, was mixed. For some reason, the Cat was now seen as Mike Bossy. This guy who was going to fill the net with pucks..
Chyc was supported by all.. A boy with local ties, a stud Dman. We all ate it up.

the reality is, the CAT and Chyc were part of a storm. A failed rebuild, showing signs of collapsing. (Logan Brown gone, Colin White gone, JBD and Thomson stalled, Formenton on his way out) 5 pieces, assumed to be cornerstones fizzled. So now, panic and trade. All the while the apple needs polishing to be sold and the present owner is losing 30 M a year.

I see what you're saying to an extent, and I agree these moves were initially met with excitement, but I still don't think the folk in charge had the faith of the community in general, at least not for long, and they didn't have all the information at the time. At minimum, it was well known that things were a train wreck internally for the franchise. When did we find out Dorion was denied speaking to DeBrincat's camp before he made the trade? Not until he was dealt iirc.

I may have liked some things in a bubble that turned out poorly, and I was willing to acknowledge that there may be an unlikely path to success if the regime remained, but I always assumed success would come only after Melnyk/Dorion was gone. DJ also felt like a temp placeholder. I always assumed that opinion was relatively widely held that ultimately these guys were all gonna need to be gone to have success. After Melnyk died, it was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[Micklebot]

I think it was @Micklebot who posted projections from Dobber on the price of the upcoming UFA class. I think the dailyfaceoff article that just dropped has some better #'s (especially for the shutdown defencemen).

UFA Projections: How much money did Canucks’ Elias Lindholm cost himself this year?

Daily Faceoff’s Top 75 free agents lists includes major movement in projected contract values.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Some guys that might interest the Sens (and their projected cap #):

Brett Pesce: 5 x $6.25M
Matt Roy: 5 x $5.8M
Dylan Demelo: 4 x $5.3M
Chris Tanev: 3 x $3.7
Jalen Chatfield: 3 x $3.65M
Alex Carrier: 3 x $4M
Tyler Myers: 2 x $3.1M
Matt Dumba: 3 x $3M
Jani Hakapaa: 1 x $1.5M
Vincent Desharnais: 1 x $1.1M

I'd be absolutely fine budgeting $12M for 2-3 of those guys and letting the chips fall where they may up front.

Yeah, I was the one to post the Dobbers one, and definitely noticed they were a bit low for the defensive minded guys. To their credit, they did it in January so they were working with less info.


These ones align with my personal expectations. I'd be thrilled with Pesce at that price, I'd give him more term rather than extra dollars as a sens tax though.

Tanev does seem like a bargain, he's not my preferred target but at that price I'd be all over it.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I think it was @Micklebot who posted projections from Dobber on the price of the upcoming UFA class. I think the dailyfaceoff article that just dropped has some better #'s (especially for the shutdown defencemen).

UFA Projections: How much money did Canucks’ Elias Lindholm cost himself this year?

Daily Faceoff’s Top 75 free agents lists includes major movement in projected contract values.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Some guys that might interest the Sens (and their projected cap #):

Brett Pesce: 5 x $6.25M
Matt Roy: 5 x $5.8M
Dylan Demelo: 4 x $5.3M
Chris Tanev: 3 x $3.7
Jalen Chatfield: 3 x $3.65M
Alex Carrier: 3 x $4M
Tyler Myers: 2 x $3.1M
Matt Dumba: 3 x $3M
Jani Hakapaa: 1 x $1.5M
Vincent Desharnais: 1 x $1.1M

I'd be absolutely fine budgeting $12M for 2-3 of those guys and letting the chips fall where they may up front.

If we could get Roy and Hakanpaa for $7.3M I'd be stoked as hell. However I have serious questions about this list. Whoever has Myers as worth more than Hakanpaa has some bats in the belfry.

 

[bicboi64]

If we could get Roy and Hakanpaa for $7.3M I'd be stoked as hell. However I have serious questions about this list. Whoever has Myers as worth more than Hakanpaa has some bats in the belfry.

Gotta pay premium for the Chaos Giraffe

 

[PlayOn]

Vancouver reporters said Tanev’s playoffs have priced him out of their range and he’ll get 5 mil+.

 

[Micklebot]

Gotta pay premium for the Chaos Giraffe

He did have a good year, to be fair...

 

[Beech]

I see what you're saying to an extent, and I agree these moves were initially met with excitement, but I still don't think the folk in charge had the faith of the community in general, at least not for long, and they didn't have all the information at the time. At minimum, it was well known that things were a train wreck internally for the franchise. When did we find out Dorion was denied speaking to DeBrincat's camp before he made the trade? Not until he was dealt iirc.

I may have liked some things in a bubble that turned out poorly, and I was willing to acknowledge that there may be an unlikely path to success if the regime remained, but I always assumed success would come only after Melnyk/Dorion was gone. DJ also felt like a temp placeholder. I always assumed that opinion was relatively widely held that ultimately these guys were all gonna need to be gone to have success. After Melnyk died, it was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

We have discussed this at length, the last 5 years;
95% casual fans. They are dancing bears, start clapping, they are up on hind legs and dancing. Let TSN1200, TSN TV, SportsNet, Sens media, Top 40 music DJs, Non sports TV start a "spin". And the bear starts dancing.

Back in 2022, I was in one hospital, out the next (my late wife). Hospitals are great for chatter. Those wonderful Sens. We are doing it this year!!! No more covid, the guys are entering their prime. Timmie, Jake, Brady, Drake and so on. First name bases, as if they were related to everyone.

On here, we are a portion of the the 5% diehard. 2.5% drink the cool aide, 2.5% spit it out.

So, Sens fans in 2022.. 97-98% drank and happily swallowed the cool aide.

So, make moves to cause a stir, follow it up with spin. Sell out the building. Don't lose as much money. Attract a new owner.

The realty as I saw it, the 97-98% soured on Dorion after the Debrincat fiasco. When he played poorly, when the team failed. Then the knives came out.

No one shouted DJ out or Dorion out in 2022/2023. That only started in 2023. Heck even that summer.. Have you forgotten TaraSENko... We lapped that up by the ladle full.

In the summer of 2022, JR (TSN1200) was reassuring everyone: The Sokolov. he is the real deal. Start dancing folks, we are clapping.

 

[GCK]

I think it was @Micklebot who posted projections from Dobber on the price of the upcoming UFA class. I think the dailyfaceoff article that just dropped has some better #'s (especially for the shutdown defencemen).

UFA Projections: How much money did Canucks’ Elias Lindholm cost himself this year?

Daily Faceoff’s Top 75 free agents lists includes major movement in projected contract values.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Some guys that might interest the Sens (and their projected cap #):

Brett Pesce: 5 x $6.25M
Matt Roy: 5 x $5.8M
Dylan Demelo: 4 x $5.3M
Chris Tanev: 3 x $3.7
Jalen Chatfield: 3 x $3.65M
Alex Carrier: 3 x $4M
Tyler Myers: 2 x $3.1M
Matt Dumba: 3 x $3M
Jani Hakapaa: 1 x $1.5M
Vincent Desharnais: 1 x $1.1M

I'd be absolutely fine budgeting $12M for 2-3 of those guys and letting the chips fall where they may up front.

Give me Tanev at 3 x 4.5M and Chatfield at 4 x 3.75M and move on to forwards and goalie.

 

[stempniaksen]

If we could get Roy and Hakanpaa for $7.3M I'd be stoked as hell. However I have serious questions about this list. Whoever has Myers as worth more than Hakanpaa has some bats in the belfry.

The Ottawa tax probably means $8M at the very least but I’d still be extremely okay with that. Turns RD from a weakness to a strength for “free”.

 

[Big Muddy]

I feel like he’s just throwing shit at the wall at this point

I’ve wondered about that as well. Does he have any real connections within the Senators organization now? It's a different regime now so they likely don’t need a media member pumping out the owner’s message (aka damage control) now.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We have discussed this at length, the last 5 years;
95% casual fans. They are dancing bears, start clapping, they are up on hind legs and dancing. Let TSN1200, TSN TV, SportsNet, Sens media, Top 40 music DJs, Non sports TV start a "spin". And the bear starts dancing.

Back in 2022, I was in one hospital, out the next (my late wife). Hospitals are great for chatter. Those wonderful Sens. We are doing it this year!!! No more covid, the guys are entering their prime. Timmie, Jake, Brady, Drake and so on. First name bases, as if they were related to everyone.

On here, we are a portion of the the 5% diehard. 2.5% drink the cool aide, 2.5% spit it out.

So, Sens fans in 2022.. 97-98% drank and happily swallowed the cool aide.

So, make moves to cause a stir, follow it up with spin. Sell out the building. Don't lose as much money. Attract a new owner.

The realty as I saw it, the 97-98% soured on Dorion after the Debrincat fiasco. When he played poorly, when the team failed. Then the knives came out.

No one shouted DJ out or Dorion out in 2022/2023. That only started in 2023. Heck even that summer.. Have you forgotten TaraSENko... We lapped that up by the ladle full.

In the summer of 2022, JR (TSN1200) was reassuring everyone: The Sokolov. he is the real deal. Start dancing folks, we are clapping.

I suppose maybe a lot of this is probably my experience not being an Ottawa resident. Most of my experience is on here where I would argue faith was not high, especially as more information came to light. These "casuals" are people I don't really cross paths with I guess. I know the type, but here in the Yukon, they are fans of other teams.

The few Sens fans I run in to, or those that aren't Senators fans, but are hockey fans, all just referred to the team as a running joke for the last 5 or so years. My main Senators friend likens Dorion's trades to sharts. They started with good intentions, but they were a mess when they came out.

If Senators fans knew the DeBrincat trade would work out as it did, they obviously wouldn't have been excited. Dorion had the information that their camp wouldn't engage with him pre-trade, the fans didn't. The assumption from most was an extension would be a formality, or at least likely.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

(@frightenedinmatenum2 nailed it).

How do I print an HFBoards post to hang on my fridge?

Dorion was our pro scout.

Dorion was head of pro scouting, his iPad was our pro scout.

 

[PlayOn]

A league executive said Thursday he believes the Senators would likely have to offer defenceman Jakob Chychrun along with a first-round pick and another selection to acquire Ullmark. Even then, he has the hammer because he does have the modified no-trade clause.

I’m assuming it’d be BOS 1st but this is just a silly price to pay honestly.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

He's more than a slight upgrade lol he's a HUGE upgrade on Ceci.

We're basically saying the same thing. That Ceci and Weegar are both great at hockey and we'd be excited to get either. It's just semantics that we don't agree on.

 

[Boud]

Am I the only one who feels like bringing this team to the playoffs next season will be an impossible task?

For one the makeup of this roster is just not there. Norris is a question mark. defense needs a retool. Tarasenko needs to be replaced. Giroux might slow down. Batherson is inconsistent. Goalies are a question mark. Bottom 6 needs a retool.

If Staios goes and makes big changes it will change the dynamic but will likely take some time to adapt to new players and new systems. I would not be surprised one bit if it was another poor start and that would be disastrous on the morale of this very fragile core.

Any upgrade that Staois makes in one area will be a downgrade in another area, that's almost a guarantee since we don't have much in the pipeline and won't trade our valuable picks. If we go the UFA route, we need to overpay and many players with better options wont even consider Ottawa.

I wouldn't want to be in Steve's shoes right now. Opposing teams see Ottawa coming from a mile away, there's pressure to turn this sinking ship asap with no pick in 2026 and Tkachuk with 4 years left on his deal. There's no option to retool or take a step back to make a leap forward right now. I have very little hope that this will turn out positively.

 

[Golden_Jet]

We're basically saying the same thing. That Ceci and Weegar are both great at hockey and we'd be excited to get either. It's just semantics that we don't agree on.

Can’t think of many who want Ceci back,

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I’m assuming it’d be BOS 1st but this is just a silly price to pay honestly.

There is no way that price is legitimate. League executive believes isn't the same as a this is the cost.

Chychrun is worth a late 1st in the absolute worst case scenario. I would be surprised if Ullmark went for two 1sts+. Even with how few options there are in net.

Look at Winnipeg circling back and extending Hellebucyk. I think there is a ceiling on what a team will pay for a goalie in a trade, on top of also giving up a ton of cap to re-sign them.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

I’m assuming it’d be BOS 1st but this is just a silly price to pay honestly.

Tbh I'd do that IF Ullmark came with an extension.

The fact is we NEED to make the playoffs next year to keep Brady and the rest of the core happy and not asking for trades out of Ottawa.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Am I the only one who feels like bringing this team to the playoffs next season will be an impossible task?

For one the makeup of this roster is just not there. Norris is a question mark. defense needs a retool. Tarasenko needs to be replaced. Giroux might slow down. Batherson is inconsistent. Goalies are a question mark. Bottom 6 needs a retool.

If Staios goes and makes big changes it will change the dynamic but will likely take some time to adapt to new players and new systems. I would not be surprised one bit if it was another poor start and that would be disastrous on the morale of this very fragile core.

Any upgrade that Staois makes in one area will be a downgrade in another area, that's almost a guarantee since we don't have much in the pipeline and won't trade our valuable picks. If we go the UFA route, we need to overpay and many players with better options wont even consider Ottawa.

I wouldn't want to be in Steve's shoes right now. Opposing teams see Ottawa coming from a mile away, there's pressure to turn this sinking ship asap with no pick in 2026 and Tkachuk with 4 years left on his deal. There's no option to retool or take a step back to make a leap forward right now. I have very little hope that this will turn out positively.

No, probably most see at as 50/50 at best, but will have a better idea in September than May obviously.

 

[BondraTime]

Am I the only one who feels like bringing this team to the playoffs next season will be an impossible task?

For one the makeup of this roster is just not there. Norris is a question mark. defense needs a retool. Tarasenko needs to be replaced. Giroux might slow down. Batherson is inconsistent. Goalies are a question mark. Bottom 6 needs a retool.

If Staios goes and makes big changes it will change the dynamic but will likely take some time to adapt to new players and new systems. I would not be surprised one bit if it was another poor start and that would be disastrous on the morale of this very fragile core.

Any upgrade that Staois makes in one area will be a downgrade in another area, that's almost a guarantee since we don't have much in the pipeline and won't trade our valuable picks. If we go the UFA route, we need to overpay and many players with better options wont even consider Ottawa.

I wouldn't want to be in Steve's shoes right now. Opposing teams see Ottawa coming from a mile away, there's pressure to turn this sinking ship asap with no pick in 2026 and Tkachuk with 4 years left on his deal. There's no option to retool or take a step back to make a leap forward right now. I have very little hope that this will turn out positively.

Nope, I agree

It's a 1/2 year retool to get back on track to where we "should" have been 2 years ago.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Can’t think of many who want Ceci back,

I don't actually want him back because I don't think it is right for him. There is too much negativity and baggage in this market place. Part of loving someone is knowing when it's time to let them go, because it's not meant to be.

It's like that scene in the Dark Knight where Alfred sees Batman eating in France.