Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Liver King]

You're going to have to elaborate on what you mean by legitimate RHD, I offered a solution with 4.5 mil dedicated to a RHD, so on the trade market that might include guys like Manson, Marino, Carlo, Jensen, Gudas, and Larsson. Might be enough to sign some of the UFA, depending on term, give an extra year or two to a guy like Tanev and maybe he considers it, Dumba looked better in Tbay and could probably be had in that range. Maybe Carrier?

The reality is guys who can command more than 4.5 will also have more suitors, and may just opt not to sign here, so while you may value Pesce at whatever it takes over a legit goalie, he might not have any interest in coming here.

Saros is not going to want to come here and sign long term either.

I’m saying I’m taking a legitimate top 4 RHD over an 8mil #1 goalie. Unless you find a way to lose Korpisalo in the process

I think you also need a bottom pairing d for Kleven and two forwards.

The roster needs major work, big game hunting on a goalie this summer isn’t realistic. Still got to find some solution, I just don’t see us getting Saros or Ullmark

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I think that we could get almost any goalie to sign here, but we need to trap them here first. Almost like what happened with Huberdeau and Weegar in Calgary. Where Calgary offered them both absolute top market value with top terms, and given their unfamiliarity with Calgary's system, they would be taking a massive risk by not signing.

If we offer Saros 8M, or Ullmark 6M, with term, trade protection, and signing bonuses - both are signing that rather than risking playing out the season. Especially if they are already here and someone shows them some Youtube clips of our defense last year, or they run into Forsberg at catering.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

With players like Kubalik and Brannstrom, if they are going to take league minimum deals, they would not sign here. If they are going to take league minimum, they might as well go to a new situation where there is a chance they could earn a regular spot on the roster.

Both seem like players who will end up in Europe or Russia within a few years because they can be stars in a top pro league where the compensation and lifestyle is better than the AHL.

Yeah, that was just my way of saying that we should not be concerning ourselves with Kubalik or players to replace him

 

[ottawagm]

Chabot to Nash before the NTC kicks in is my feeling.

 

[Tuna99]

I am not defending Dorion, but part of the motivation for those kind of pickups was supposedly the team being for sale. Polishing a turd, so to speak. They needed to create excitement among the season ticket base and the city.

Reddit started the Summer Of Pierre thing after all those moves, so I'd guess he did succeed.

Ultimately, those moves were the death rattle of the Melnyk regime. We got screwed long term because the team was in such a sorry state due to Menlyk's ownership, that they needed to make panic moves for superstars.

If Debrincat (doesn’t want to be here) and Chychryn (doesn’t want to be here and is half caveman) is what you use to polish up your team with - I understand why people got fired.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If Debrincat (doesn’t want to be here) and Chychryn (doesn’t want to be here and is half caveman) is what you use to polish up your team with - I understand why people got fired.

The fan base was legitimately engaged and inspired during the summer of the Debrincat deal, they made t-shirts.

 

[bert]

We're not trading for a goalie who's due for a big raise after next season. I don't see it

Especially a small one that relies on athleticism that's looking for a long deal. That's why he isn't getting the offers from Nashville he wants.

The fan base was legitimately engaged and inspired during the summer of the Debrincat deal, they made t-shirts.

Shows how out of touch a large portion of this fanbase is. The 'summer of Dorion' fans are typically the new ones that love to tweet.

 

[Micklebot]

Saros is not going to want to come here and sign long term either.

That's a separate issue,

I’m saying I’m taking a legitimate top 4 RHD over an 8mil #1 goalie. Unless you find a way to lose Korpisalo in the process

But again, I showed you can have both, unless you don't think 4.5 is enough to get a top 4 guy

I think you also need a bottom pairing d for Kleven and two forwards.

Yeah, that's the sacrifice, but I think it's pretty clear that an elite goalie is more import than a bottom pair pair D upgrade and some bottom 6 forwards.

The roster needs major work, big game hunting on a goalie this summer isn’t realistic. Still got to find some solution, I just don’t see us getting Saros or Ullmark

I think you need to strike when opportunity arises, it's not every offseason when an Ulmark or Saros becomes available, they could be this iteration of the sens Anderson. Maybe we can't land one, and that's fine, but I do think you explore the option, especially if we can't land a top D like Pesce.

As for getting ride of Korpisalo, the buyout isn't too bad, I think we could delay it a season or maybe two if we are really worried about length, but the cap hit of ~1.3 per year on average is easily dealt with.

 

[Tuna99]

The fan base was legitimately engaged and inspired during the summer of the Debrincat deal, they made t-shirts.

I don’t remember that, i’m still recovering from the Ales Hemsky trade excitement

 

[Senovision]

We keep seeing names like Branny and Chychrun being mentioned as players that might not be back next year with us.
However, I still think, and I don't know why I think this, maybe it's just a gut feeling but I think there is going to be one or maybe even more than one player from our roster that will be traded that will be a surprise trade or maybe even two trades. In other words I think there will be a trade of a player or two that will be a surprise.
Surprise players from our roster would be divided into 2 categories well really 3 categories.

A level surprise players would be....Chabot, Norris, Pinto, Batherson, Sanderson, Korpi, Grieg.

The A surprise players are divided into two sub categories.....i.) Chabot, Norris, Korpi would fall under the category of they each have caveats
Chabot big contract injuries etc.....
Norris big contract injuries etc....
Korpi 4 years remaining and he had a bad year

ii.) The second level is my WOW category! Like as in I can't believe we traded one of those names. And OBVIOUSLY those 4 players are in the second category because they would be Extreme Long Shots to be traded ( in my opinion).
As in what the hell did we get back if we traded one of Grieg, Batherson, Pinto or Sandy?

My B level surprise names would be Forsberg, JBD, Joseph,

Now you will notice that there were many names that I did not include. I have thoughts on why I didn't include them or maybe it was just a gut feeling.

 

[Loach]

We keep seeing names like Branny and Chychrun being mentioned as players that might not be back next year with us.
However, I still think, and I don't know why I think this, maybe it's just a gut feeling but I think there is going to be one or maybe even more than one player from our roster that will be traded that will be a surprise trade or maybe even two trades. In other words I think there will be a trade of a player or two that will be a surprise.
Surprise players from our roster would be divided into 2 categories well really 3 categories.

A level surprise players would be....Chabot, Norris, Pinto, Batherson, Sanderson, Korpi, Grieg.

The A surprise players are divided into two sub categories.....i.) Chabot, Norris, Korpi would fall under the category of they each have caveats
Chabot big contract injuries etc.....
Norris big contract injuries etc....
Korpi 4 years remaining and he had a bad year

ii.) The second level is my WOW category! Like as in I can't believe we traded one of those names. And OBVIOUSLY those 4 players are in the second category because they would be Extreme Long Shots to be traded ( in my opinion).
As in what the hell did we get back if we traded one of Grieg, Batherson, Pinto or Sandy?

My B level surprise names would be Forsberg, JBD, Joseph,

Now you will notice that there were many names that I did not include. I have thoughts on why I didn't include them or maybe it was just a gut feeling.

This is all very surprising

 

[Burrowsaurus]

My dream is that we get Weegar from Calgary.

I really want Ceci, but Weegar is also a hometown kid and is a slight upgrade on Ceci. So I can accept us getting Weegar instead.

SLIGHT?!?!?

Especially a small one that relies on athleticism that's looking for a long deal. That's why he isn't getting the offers from Nashville he wants.


Shows how out of touch a large portion of this fanbase is. The 'summer of Dorion' fans are typically the new ones that love to tweet.

You hated the debrincat deal?

It was cool to get debrincat and giroux man. You need to accept that.

Outside of that it’s up to management to re sign players and make sure they trade for players that want to stay.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The fan base was legitimately engaged and inspired during the summer of the Debrincat deal, they made t-shirts.

There were a couple at least that pointed out the issue with the roster construction close to the time of that deal.

 

[Hale The Villain]

The fan base was legitimately engaged and inspired during the summer of the Debrincat deal, they made t-shirts.

They would have been similarly excited had we done something smarter like trade the 7th for a good young player (eg. Dach) and used DeBrincat's 9M salary to add additional help on D.

I don't buy for one second that DeBrincat was traded for to boost the sale price. It was done because Dorion and the pro scouting staff were beyond awful at their jobs and thought they were getting a 40-50G scorer that could help push the team to the playoffs.

I don't doubt for one second there were off-ice considerations that played into the trade, but it's far more likely Dorion was trying to save his job by sacrificing the future for the present than trying to make the Melnyk daughters more money.

 

[Duncstar]

My dream is that we get Weegar from Calgary.

I really want Ceci, but Weegar is also a hometown kid and is a slight upgrade on Ceci. So I can accept us getting Weegar instead.

He's more than a slight upgrade lol he's a HUGE upgrade on Ceci.

 

[GCK]

They would have been similarly excited had we done something smarter like trade the 7th for a good young player (eg. Dach) and used DeBrincat's 9M salary to add additional help on D.

I don't buy for one second that DeBrincat was traded for to boost the sale price. It was done because Dorion and the pro scouting staff were beyond awful at their jobs and thought they were getting a 40-50G scorer that could help push the team to the playoffs.

I don't doubt for one second there were off-ice considerations that played into the trade, but it's far more likely Dorion was trying to save his job by sacrificing the future for the present than trying to make the Melnyk daughters more money.

Dorion was our pro scout.

 

[BondraTime]

Dorion trying to save his job ever since Melnyk croaked was so detrimental to the future of team.

I’m still in awe we have essentially nothing to show for 10th, 7th and 12th overall picks as a rebuilding team in its 7th year in a row out of the playoffs. That’s inexcusable.

 

[Beech]

Dorion trying to save his job ever since Melnyk croaked was so detrimental to the future of team.

I’m still in awe we have essentially nothing to show for 10th, 7th and 12th overall picks as a rebuilding team in its 7th year in a row out of the playoffs. That’s inexcusable.

there is a price to be paid for August of 2003.

It took 10 years for us to start seeing it and then felt it for another 10.

Everything that has happened the last 7-8 years are the inevitable endpoints of one Eugene Melnyk owing this ream.

 

[Beech]

They would have been similarly excited had we done something smarter like trade the 7th for a good young player (eg. Dach) and used DeBrincat's 9M salary to add additional help on D.

I don't buy for one second that DeBrincat was traded for to boost the sale price. It was done because Dorion and the pro scouting staff were beyond awful at their jobs and thought they were getting a 40-50G scorer that could help push the team to the playoffs.

I don't doubt for one second there were off-ice considerations that played into the trade, but it's far more likely Dorion was trying to save his job by sacrificing the future for the present than trying to make the Melnyk daughters more money.

You are re-writing history.

Do a search on here, see the Debrincat thread, the 101 other posts that appeared on numerous threads from summer 2022 to summer 2023. Many of those condemning the trade now, were all for it, back then. We are seeing Monday morning quarterbacking. Big time.

Ditto for Chyckrun.

Dorion was polishing a turd (@frightenedinmatenum2 nailed it). He then tried to add more polish at the TDL with Chychrun.

there was euphoria.. 2021/2022 attendance (limited by COVID rules, 10,150). Less Covid, I would assume in line with 2018/2019..14,500. Dorion attempt at turd polishing, put 16,800 in 2022/2023.

old CD1 blasted me to high heaven for criticizing that move. I was the Debbie Downer... Everyone was happy, happy, happy.. Smile you monkies! run out and buy tickets. It is only after the failure that people went, "no.. I was never for it".

Pierre WAS trying to save his job, but he was also polishing a turd. He was in job save mode since 2020/2021, when it became apparent that 2021 FYOUS was by the waste side. It is why Melnyk hired Pierre McGuire in 2021. Had Melnyk lived, Dorion would have been gone by season's end.

Dorion was also trying to stop the bleeding. 14,500 fans on top of covid meant the Melnyks were losing 30 M a year. 2-3 more years and their debt would have been a runaway. They were desperate for 17,000 plus fans.

What happens when a bad owner, hires 2 bad GMs, makes dumb moves, shoots his mouth off to offend fans, trusts a rebuild to a hockey ops group that failed and he did not respond quick enough.

When that idiot stood in front of parliament, he ensured 3,000-4,000 fans would stay home.
When he allowed one bone head move after another, he made sure 3,000-4,000 stayed home.
When he became harsher and harsher, when 100 stories about him surfaced. Antics that a movie maker could not envision. He ensured that 3,000-4,000 stayed home.

So the Cat and Chyc. were turd polishing, job saving, financial crises management, acquisitions.

August of 2003... It is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Big Muddy]

My dream is that we get Weegar from Calgary.

I really want Ceci, but Weegar is also a hometown kid and is a slight upgrade on Ceci. So I can accept us getting Weegar instead.

1. SLIGHT?!?!?


2. You hated the debrincat deal?

It was cool to get debrincat and giroux man. You need to accept that.

Outside of that it’s up to management to re sign players and make sure they trade for players that want to stay.

1. Pretty sure that was a tongue in cheek post.

2. Got to distinguish between the player and the contract. There was likely many that liked the player. There were a few that didn’t like the term of the contract even at the time of the trade e.g., one definite year, and one maybe year that didn’t work out (perhaps predictably).

He's more than a slight upgrade lol he's a HUGE upgrade on Ceci.

See 1. above.

 

[Big Muddy]

They would have been similarly excited had we done something smarter like trade the 7th for a good young player (eg. Dach) and used DeBrincat's 9M salary to add additional help on D.

I don't buy for one second that DeBrincat was traded for to boost the sale price. It was done because Dorion and the pro scouting staff were beyond awful at their jobs and thought they were getting a 40-50G scorer that could help push the team to the playoffs.

I don't doubt for one second there were off-ice considerations that played into the trade, but it's far more likely Dorion was trying to save his job by sacrificing the future for the present than trying to make the Melnyk daughters more money.

All of the scenarios can be true at the same time. It doesn’t have to be binary and just one versus the other. I think you correctly stated that point in the bolded text.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

You are re-writing history.

Do a search on here, see the Debrincat thread, the 101 other posts that appeared on numerous threads from summer 2022 to summer 2023. Many of those condemning the trade now, were all for it, back then. We are seeing Monday morning quarterbacking. Big time.

Ditto for Chyckrun.

Dorion was polishing a turd (@frightenedinmatenum2 nailed it). He then tried to add more polish at the TDL with Chychrun.

there was euphoria.. 2021/2022 attendance (limited by COVID rules, 10,150). Less Covid, I would assume in line with 2018/2019..14,500. Dorion attempt at turd polishing, put 16,800 in 2022/2023.

old CD1 blasted me to high heaven for criticizing that move. I was the Debbie Downer... Everyone was happy, happy, happy.. Smile you monkies! run out and buy tickets. It is only after the failure that people went, "no.. I was never for it".

Pierre WAS trying to save his job, but he was also polishing a turd. He was in job save mode since 2020/2021, when it became apparent that 2021 FYOUS was by the waste side. It is why Melnyk hired Pierre McGuire in 2021. Had Melnyk lived, Dorion would have been gone by season's end.

Dorion was also trying to stop the bleeding. 14,500 fans on top of covid meant the Melnyks were losing 30 M a year. 2-3 more years and their debt would have been a runaway. They were desperate for 17,000 plus fans.

What happens when a bad owner, hires 2 bad GMs, makes dumb moves, shoots his mouth off to offend fans, trusts a rebuild to a hockey ops group that failed and he did not respond quick enough.

When that idiot stood in front of parliament, he ensured 3,000-4,000 fans would stay home.
When he allowed one bone head move after another, he made sure 3,000-4,000 stayed home.
When he became harsher and harsher, when 100 stories about him surfaced. Antics that a movie maker could not envision. He ensured that 3,000-4,000 stayed home.

So the Cat and Chyc. were turd polishing, job saving, financial crises management, acquisitions.

August of 2003... It is the gift that keeps on giving.

I don't think most believed in what they were doing in general though. Tons of criticism of their operation and their decisions in bubbles. That doesn't mean some of the more bold stuff wasn't met with excitement and the fans weren't starved for some competitive hockey after essentially folding for years.

The Dadonov/Murray summer seemed like a time the team was willing to spend some dough. They were both relatively short term deals too, so I think most were excited by the idea the team wasn't just playing broke rebuild team anymore. Cautious optimism it felt like.

The DeBrincat move wasn't exposed as being so bad until we knew he was a bad fit, had telegraphed and exit from the beginning, and Dorion went through with it despite being denied talking to their camp after he requested. That changes a lot there. Assumption obviously wasn't that we'd be selling low on him 1 year later.

The Chychrun move could have been solid, but it seems the pro scouting let us down. He's clearly not the player he was assumed to be. I think what's important to note with Chychrun is that regardless of what fans thought of the player, Dorion once again put himself in a position of a big acquisition of a player with not much runway. He basically had 2 years left after they finished out that one he was acquired during. It burned him again like it did with Duchene and DeBrincat.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

So Bruce says we may have tried to include Korpisalo in a package for Ullmark at the deadline and they declined?

Well no shit lmao.

 

[BondraTime]

So Bruce says we may have tried to include Korpisalo in a package for Ullmark at the deadline and they declined?

Well no shit lmao.

I feel like he’s just throwing shit at the wall at this point

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So Bruce says we may have tried to include Korpisalo in a package for Ullmark at the deadline and they declined?

Well no shit lmao.

Hey Neely, I got a nice warm bag of shit here I'm willing to exchange for that nice shiny toy you've got there. Deal?