Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals - 2025/26 Part II

[Hale The Villain]

Why is it such a binary conclusion to you? We either give him $9M or trade him for Jensen? Even the crux of your argument is undone by the bolded statement you make.

Maybe, just maybe, people aren't willing to move on because this is a team bereft of trade capital, high end prospects and good draft capital to improve its roster. We had a young, high-end player with #1 potential, who we deemed the most expendable from that roster, and we traded him for an aging stop-gap who we got maybe 50 good games out of?

The parallels to the Zibanejad trade, which happened 10 years ago, and whom many STILL gnash their teeth over, are astonishing. But now we're supposed to move on?

The other option was trading him for picks/prospects, which would still be a disappointing return in hindsight, as Chychrun's bad season and expiring contract likely limited his value to something similar to DeBrincat - a late 1st or a couple 2nds.

Staios opted for the veteran RD + a 3rd, given the horrible alternatives available that summer, and it worked out in 24/25.

Don't think we make the playoffs last year without Jensen stabilizing the 2nd pair beside Chabot. He was legitimately good for us last year prior to his injury, which I've pointed out numerous times was not something that could or should have been predicted, given his track record of staying healthy over his career.

It's no Zibanejad trade. That's a horrible comparison.

 

[Micklebot]

The other option was trading him for picks/prospects, which would still be a disappointing return in hindsight, as Chychrun's bad season and expiring contract likely limited his value to something similar to DeBrincat - a late 1st or a couple 2nds.

Staios opted for the veteran RD + a 3rd, given the horrible alternatives available that summer, and it worked out in 24/25.

Don't think we make the playoffs last year without Jensen stabilizing the 2nd pair beside Chabot. He was legitimately good for us last year prior to his injury, which I've pointed out numerous times was not something that could or should have been predicted, given his track record of staying healthy over his career.

It's no Zibanejad trade. That's a horrible comparison.

In all honestly, even after the injury, but prior to surgery, Jensen was mostly acceptable. Things really went sideways after getting it fixed, but coming back too early.

 

[BankStreetParade]

The other option was trading him for picks/prospects, which would still be a disappointing return in hindsight, as Chychrun's bad season and expiring contract likely limited his value to something similar to DeBrincat - a late 1st or a couple 2nds.

Staios opted for the veteran RD + a 3rd, given the horrible alternatives available that summer, and it worked out in 24/25.

Don't think we make the playoffs last year without Jensen stabilizing the 2nd pair beside Chabot. He was legitimately good for us last year prior to his injury, which I've pointed out numerous times was not something that could or should have been predicted, given his track record of staying healthy over his career.

We played the first third of the season, without any injury to Jensen, at a .481 points percentage. We played the final two-thirds of the season at a .645 points percentage, with Jensen nursing a lingering injury for the majority of that time. No one knows the exact date the injury started compounding.

It's no Zibanejad trade. That's a horrible comparison.

Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

We traded a young, potentially star-calibre player at his position for an aging, declining vet, who was coming off a much worse preceding year than our player was, and the trade was primarily made for handedness and to acquire veteran experience. Tell me which part is the "horrible" comparison.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Dreger said we were telling GMs we had an offer of 1st and 2nd, and trying to get them to beat that.

Depending on what you think Jensen was worth, 1st and 2nd might just be the ceiling for Chychrun's market value at that time.

The other RD that got moved was Marino for two 2nds. Our best case scenario was probably trading Chychrun for futures, then outbidding Utah for Marino by flipping that 1st and 2nd Dreger said we claimed to have on the table, but it's a bit risky, and technically I think Marino was traded before we closed a trade on Chychrun, so it's possible that was the plan but Utah beat us to it.

Trading Chychrun indirectly for Marino would have been fine, it's still a huge let down when you compare it to 12oa, and two 2nds Dorion gave up to acquire him, but it would have been a similar fit to Jensen only younger with an extra year.

I do think if Jensen had stayed healthy the trade looks much better, still not great, but the injury imo is causing people to view it more negatively. You can't control injuries, Chychrun at the time of the trade was probably seen as a bigger injury risk than Jensen if we're being honest about it.

I'm pretty sure Staios was bluffing about being offered that much, but I could definitely see a late 1st or a couple 2nds and a small plus.

The issue with using Marino as a potential target is that we were and are starved for expendable assets compared to a team like Utah, so if we got in a bidder war it's highly unlikely we'd be able to outbid Utah for his services.

This is why I was begging Dorion to manage his assets better and weaponize our cap space during the rebuild, as it would have given us the liquid expendable assets needed to overpay in the rare scenario a player like Marino (good 2nd pairing shutdown RD) becomes available.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

We played the first third of the season, without any injury to Jensen, at a .481 points percentage. We played the final two-thirds of the season at a .645 points percentage, with Jensen nursing a lingering injury for the majority of that time. No one knows the exact date the injury started compounding.

Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

We traded a young, potentially star-calibre player at his position for an aging, declining vet, who was coming off a much worse preceding year than our player was, and the trade was primarily made for handedness and to acquire veteran experience. Tell me which part is the "horrible" comparison.

Zbad had RFA rights left while Chychrun was a UFA. The DeBrincat comparison seems more applicable. Late 1st, cap dump, and a low grade "prospect".

 

[Loach]

So Staios' worst roster move is because he had to clean up an even worse move made by Dorion with it being compared to an even worser move also made by Dorion? This is the worstest discussion.

 

[GoodinOsgoode]

So Staios' worst roster move is because he had to clean up an even worse move made by Dorion with it being compared to an even worser move also made by Dorion? This is the worstest discussion.

Now let's debate the Duchene trade in all its full glory.

 

[Loach]

Now let's debate the Duchene trade in all its full glory.

Let's not and say we did.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

I was playing around with a few trades for fun.

1st if Brady did want out.
Brady + Spence to Utah for JJ Peterka and John Marino and their 1st.

2nd trade Zetterlund + Utahs 1st to STL for Kyrou.

3rd Devon Levi for Leevi Merilainen

Sign Claude for $1m and Bobby McMann for $7,500,000

JJ/Timmy/Kyrou
McMann/Cozens/Batherson
Foegle/Pinto/Amadio
Greig/Halliday/Giroux
MacDermid

Sanderson/Zub
Chabot/Marino
Kleven/Matinpalo
Yak

Ullmark/Levi

$770,833 in cap space

This is crazy, don’t know where to begin.

Too little of a return for Brady plus Spence
Too little of a package to return a Kyrou
Way too much for Bobby McMann

 

[Hale The Villain]

We traded a young, potentially star-calibre player at his position for an aging, declining vet, who was coming off a much worse preceding year than our player was, and the trade was primarily made for handedness and to acquire veteran experience. Tell me which part is the "horrible" comparison.

Zibanejad was a 23 year old upcoming RFA that we had control over for many years, not a 27 year old upcoming UFA that didn't want to stay here due to having 2 better LD ahead of him.

There was no need to trade Zibanejad, but we had to deal Chychrun to avoid losing him for nothing.

Chychrun was not a fit here and was going to be traded when that became extremely apparent.

The much better comparable is DeBrincat. Both players were short-sighted acquisitions that became damaged assets after we didn't play them as much and in the same kind of positions-to-succeed as their old teams did.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm pretty sure Staios was bluffing about being offered that much, but I could definitely see a late 1st or a couple 2nds and a small plus.

The issue with using Marino as a potential target is that we were and are starved for expendable assets compared to a team like Utah, so if we got in a bidder war it's highly unlikely we'd be able to outbid Utah for his services.

This is why I was begging Dorion to manage his assets better and weaponize our cap space during the rebuild, as it would have given us the liquid expendable assets needed to overpay in the rare scenario a player like Marino (good 2nd pairing shutdown RD) becomes available.

Ya, that's the risk, if you try to trade Chychrun for futures, then flip those for a Dman, its possible you get outbid for your target and come away with nothing. I suppose you could negotiate it as a three way trade, those can end up complicated though.

Again though, my point was more that our best possible outcome was probably walking away with Marino, and that Chychrun's market value likely topped out at a 1st and 2nd, as that's what he either had on the table, or bluffed that he did.

Marino was coming off a rough year, if you buy into WAR ratings and projections, he and Jensen were both expected to be better than Chychrun.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Now let's debate the Duchene trade in all its full glory.

Saw this the other day:



Imagine trading 3 players all in their mid 20s with a combined 165 points in 166 games and having nothing left to show for it 7 years later.

Disasterclass in GMing.

 

[Senscore]

Alexei Yashin still paying dividends.


Blake Montgomery can still be something.

 

[HSF]

I'm pretty sure Staios was bluffing about being offered that much, but I could definitely see a late 1st or a couple 2nds and a small plus.

The issue with using Marino as a potential target is that we were and are starved for expendable assets compared to a team like Utah, so if we got in a bidder war it's highly unlikely we'd be able to outbid Utah for his services.

This is why I was begging Dorion to manage his assets better and weaponize our cap space during the rebuild, as it would have given us the liquid expendable assets needed to overpay in the rare scenario a player like Marino (good 2nd pairing shutdown RD) becomes available.

grabbing Marino who is more controlled and younger and then trading Chychrun for futures would have been the better move

Not surprised that Staois was bent on getting vets and was not ideal

 

[Qward]

Saw this the other day:



Imagine trading 3 players all in their mid 20s with a combined 165 points in 166 games and having nothing left to show for it 7 years later.

Disasterclass in GMing.

Whaaaaaat we don't have any asset's from a seven year old trade? Team should just fold.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Saw this the other day:



Imagine trading 3 players all in their mid 20s with a combined 165 points in 166 games and having nothing left to show for it 7 years later.

Disasterclass in GMing.

Nothing left from Hoffman or Ceci either. They basically ended up with nothing from any sell offs but Karlsson. It was a monumental disaster by an awful GM.

 

[Qward]

This is crazy, don’t know where to begin.

Too little of a return for Brady plus Spence
Too little of a package to return a Kyrou
Way too much for Bobby McMann

The Utah trade is equivalent to 3 firsts coming back for Brady. I am not concerned about Spence. Take him out and give him in the package to STL for Kyrough.
McMann just came off a 29 goals season. He is going to get paid.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Whaaaaaat we don't have any asset's from a seven year old trade? Team should just fold.

That same year...

Wild traded Granlund that year and turned the return into Faber.
MTL traded Pacioretty for Suzuki.
Buffalo traded ROR for Tage Thompson.
Arizona traded Strome for Schmaltz.
Caps traded a 2nd for Jensen, who they turned into Chychrun.
Vancouver traded Dahlen for Linus Karlsson.
We got Stutzle and Norris (Cozens + Foegele) for EK!

It coulda been better.

 

[Micklebot]

grabbing Marino who is more controlled and younger and then trading Chychrun for futures would have been the better move

Not surprised that Staois was bent on getting vets and was not ideal

Age is less of a factor when dealing with guys who's contracts bring them to UFA.

The part that hurts is Jensen got hurt, had he played two healthy seasons with us the way he started his tenure here, we'd probably be pretty content with the trade in retrospect. If you predicted a guy that had missed an average of ~5 games a season was going to suffer a major hip issue requiring a resurfacing surgery then congrats I guess but I don't think anyone should have expected that.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Nothing left from Hoffman or Ceci either. They basically ended up with nothing from any sell offs but Karlsson. It was a monumental disaster by an awful GM.

Brassard too.

Traded Gustavsson for Talbot to rush the rebuild and then spent the 1st on JBD+Tychonick.

The EK and Pageau trades were the only good ones, and the EK return was laughed at when it was announced, just got lucky with the Sharks imploding and the pick ending up turning into Stutzle via the lottery.

 

[Qward]

That same year...

Wild traded Granlund that year and turned the return into Faber.
MTL traded Pacioretty for Suzuki.
Buffalo traded ROR for Tage Thompson.
Arizona traded Strome for Schmaltz.
Caps traded a 2nd for Jensen, who they turned into Chychrun.
Vancouver traded Dahlen for Linus Karlsson.
We got Stutzle and Norris (Cozens + Foegele) for EK!

It coulda been better.

And if my grandmother have wheels she'd be a bicycle.

Its best to move on from everything Dorion did. Dark part of our past. Focus on the future.

 

[Hale The Villain]

grabbing Marino who is more controlled and younger and then trading Chychrun for futures would have been the better move

Not surprised that Staois was bent on getting vets and was not ideal

The problem is that Utah could just easily up their offer for Marino, as Bill Armstrong did an incredible job stockpiling draft picks to use as trade chips.

They dealt 3 2nds for Weegar, could have done the same for Marino without even blinking.

We couldn't do the same.

 

[Big Muddy]

The other option was trading him for picks/prospects, which would still be a disappointing return in hindsight, as Chychrun's bad season and expiring contract likely limited his value to something similar to DeBrincat - a late 1st or a couple 2nds.

Staios opted for the veteran RD + a 3rd, given the horrible alternatives available that summer, and it worked out in 24/25.

Don't think we make the playoffs last year without Jensen stabilizing the 2nd pair beside Chabot. He was legitimately good for us last year prior to his injury, which I've pointed out numerous times was not something that could or should have been predicted, given his track record of staying healthy over his career.

It's no Zibanejad trade. That's a horrible comparison.

Just like you have done in your post, you & many others have explained this many times. Doesn’t seem to have an impact though. Seems like some just want to think "Staois bad, very bad” - facts be damned. LOL.

 

[Loach]

And if my grandmother have wheels she'd be a bicycle.

Its best to move on from everything Dorion did. Dark part of our past. Focus on the future.

We can do that next year. This summer our first round pick is 32, we don't have a second or fourth from Dorion. Next draft and everything going forward will be 100% Staios and his group.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Brassard too.

Traded Gustavsson for Talbot to rush the rebuild and then spent the 1st on JBD+Tychonick.

The EK and Pageau trades were the only good ones, and the EK return was laughed at when it was announced, just got lucky with the Sharks imploding and the pick ending up turning into Stutzle via the lottery.

Yup, it was just one gut punch after another.