GDT: Free Agency: Dr Strangedubas or How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Nerd
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pensfan71
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- Jun 9, 2010
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Here’s the guy from The Hockey News national outlet on rumors of Pens trading for EK
“Rumors about the future of San Jose Sharks star defenseman Erik Karlsson continue to build, but one particular team linked to Karlsson – the Pittsburgh Penguins – doesn’t make much sense. This is not to suggest the Pens wouldn’t want Karlsson on their blueline. Which team wouldn’t, but for his massive salary? He won this season’s Norris Trophy for good reason, and he’s got lots left in the tank.
However, if the Sharks do send Karlsson packing, what motivation do they have to send him to Pittsburgh? There isn’t a plethora of assets Penguins GM Kyle Dubas possesses that will enthrall San Jose GM Mike Grier. Before you say, “Wait, Adam, Dubas could send a first-round draft pick the Sharks’ way,” consider that a team like the Carolina Hurricanes could also trade a first-rounder for Karlsson but have some great young talent that allows them to outbid a strained salary cap team like the Pens.
It’s all fine and dandy to say that Karlsson would thrive with Pittsburgh. He’d thrive with a lot of teams. But the Penguins are engaged in some wishful thinking to imagine they've got the assets (nevermind the cap space) to make this deal materialize.”
“Rumors about the future of San Jose Sharks star defenseman Erik Karlsson continue to build, but one particular team linked to Karlsson – the Pittsburgh Penguins – doesn’t make much sense. This is not to suggest the Pens wouldn’t want Karlsson on their blueline. Which team wouldn’t, but for his massive salary? He won this season’s Norris Trophy for good reason, and he’s got lots left in the tank.
However, if the Sharks do send Karlsson packing, what motivation do they have to send him to Pittsburgh? There isn’t a plethora of assets Penguins GM Kyle Dubas possesses that will enthrall San Jose GM Mike Grier. Before you say, “Wait, Adam, Dubas could send a first-round draft pick the Sharks’ way,” consider that a team like the Carolina Hurricanes could also trade a first-rounder for Karlsson but have some great young talent that allows them to outbid a strained salary cap team like the Pens.
It’s all fine and dandy to say that Karlsson would thrive with Pittsburgh. He’d thrive with a lot of teams. But the Penguins are engaged in some wishful thinking to imagine they've got the assets (nevermind the cap space) to make this deal materialize.”
- Jun 13, 2010
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He's not wrong but he's forgetting three things:
1. Other irons in the fire for Carolina.
2. EK wishes/desires.
3. EK's NMC and ultimate say on where he goes.
Getting appropriate value isn't always in the cards with a guy like Karlsson at this stage in his career.
Pens x
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2016
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People are falling for one great season by Karlson. A year ago, no other team would consider pursuing him. Hell, only two teams are allegedly in the mix.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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Yeah. This is why so many people that have been watching the sport for a while roll their eyes hard when fans say stuff like "hurrrr this team should trade Malkin for a king's ransom" or something equally stupid.
He's won the Norris three times.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
The Penguins are absolutely not going to be a lottery team in the next 2-3 years if they bring in Karlsson. They barely missed the playoffs last year with everything but the health of Crosby and Malkin going wrong.
If they miss the playoffs, it will be them finishing barely outside of the playoffs and their 1st will almost definitely end up in the 13th-15th overall range. Teams can only move up 10 spots in the draft lottery now and the Penguins would have about a 2% chance of winning the draft lottery with that pick. The realistic worst case scenario for a Karlsson trade is that they give up 2 mid 1sts for him.
If they miss the playoffs, it will be them finishing barely outside of the playoffs and their 1st will almost definitely end up in the 13th-15th overall range. Teams can only move up 10 spots in the draft lottery now and the Penguins would have about a 2% chance of winning the draft lottery with that pick. The realistic worst case scenario for a Karlsson trade is that they give up 2 mid 1sts for him.
Pens x
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- Oct 8, 2016
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Jarry and Lars Eller playing in the top six for 30+ games due to injuries might push them to the bottom.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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Yeah the remainder of this core will be mediocrity at worst. Crosby alone more or less guarantees that.
I have no idea what people are thinking when they look at this team and see a top five pick incoming any time soon. I'm a pretty pessimistic guy and even to me that's a massive stretch. They also are owned by guys that aren't interested in being losers for X amount of years and will likely do everything they can to prevent that.
As much as I say "hell who cares if they suck after the core retires... I WANT them to be terrible" I don't actually believe it will happen. In a capped league it takes real effort to be terrible for longer than a year or two... shitty FO, shitty drafting/development/coaching, shitty ownership, bad arena deal, undesirable location etc. Pittsburgh just isn't that team anymore and there are mechanisms in place now league wide to make it all the more difficult to be.
66-30-33
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molon labe
Registered User
Which makes me curious over the whole thing.
A) Petry is being a stinker and WANTS to continue here for some reason.
B) We are being stingy with those assets (because no way are they asking for 3-4 1sts... it's likely the difference in an additional pick)
C) Additional teams keep jumping in here last minute and are giving SJ cold feet.
If 2 1sts get it done it should already be done. That's worth it - both to the team AND monetarily to the organization. EK probably sells 50k jerseys in his first week in Pittsburgh and helps boost some waning attendance. Sully's teams really are pretty boring to watch every 2 nights.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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You're being awfully charitable, here.
Last year was this perfect storm of both unbelievably boring and red-faced infuriating. Some of the worst hockey I've ever watched from an entertainment standpoint.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I think it's San Jose trying to play hardball and getting one of Carolina or Pittsburgh to bite, but both Pittsburgh and Carolina are content with being patient. It's July 8th, the rosters don't have to be finalized for another 2.5 months.
My speculative guess is that the Penguins are offering Granlund, Ty Smith's RFA rights, a 2024 1st and a 2025 1st for Karlsson with $3 million retained, with some sort of lottery protection and/or performance conditions on at least one of those 1sts (like "if the Penguins don't make the ECF in one of the two years, the 2025 1st becomes a 2nd"). They're trying to find a third team to take Petry because Petry won't go to San Jose.
Gurglesons
Registered User
If you look historically at the deals that are made at this point in the off season it’s few and far between.
You may want to say “rosters aren’t finalized”, but they are a lot closer to being that way than not.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
In the 2019 off-season, there were 9 trades made between July 8th and August 9th.
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
Of course they have the f***ing assets to make it work. What, San Jose will reject if they attach 3 consecutive annual 1sts, Yager and Pickering?
Maybe they don't WANT to do that?
How many times and for how long are people gonna spout this nonsense? Stfu, TheHockeyNews.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Yeah it's completely false to say the Penguins "don't have the assets" for Karlsson. Of course they do, a vast majority of NHL teams have the assets to bring in Karlsson.
Karlsson isn't bringing back an A+ prospect that only a few teams in the NHL have. He's bringing back the equivalent of like 2-3 1sts. Most teams in the league can make a package of that value.
Karlsson isn't bringing back an A+ prospect that only a few teams in the NHL have. He's bringing back the equivalent of like 2-3 1sts. Most teams in the league can make a package of that value.
Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
I'd give up a 2024 1st, 2025 2nd, and a 2026 3rd as picks. Then as for prospects I'd give up one of Pickering or Blomqvist with my preference being Pickering to be sent, I guess.
The above is about acquiring Karlsson.
The above is about acquiring Karlsson.
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
If Karlsson regresses to like 50ish points like before and continues to defend like absolute trash, I don't think he's worth 8.5 or 9M at all. You can help your team more with that money elsewhere.
Then when you attach 3-4 "significant pieces", like Grier wants, you lose this deal by default unless you win the Cup.
San Jose has to move him. He will never have higher value after last year. What if he has the 50 game type year he had three of the last 4 years. Who is going to want 8.5 million cap hit even 3 million retained for 3 years. Of course his actual salary is lower but no question SJ also has to move him now. Carolina moves the D man and uses that package to facilitate the trade.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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I mean they aren't winning a Cup with or without EK so my sights aren't set there to begin with.
I think the only way that he flops here is if he is locked out of the top powerplay and generally is used poorly by the coaching staff.
In other words he could well be a big flop here.
I think the only way that he flops here is if he is locked out of the top powerplay and generally is used poorly by the coaching staff.
In other words he could well be a big flop here.
Gurglesons
Registered User
And five of them involved actual NHLers.
Oops that was 18 off-season.
2019 was 5 as well.
Randy Butternubs
Registurd User
I don't even think Karlsson to the Pens works without him coming in around $6.5M.
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