WesMcCauley
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2015
- 8,616
- 2,600
Put Zucc with Getzlaf and they would tear it up. Zucc has never played with an elite center and still produces first line points. He would be fine in the west
Proposal: Fowler for Zuccarello
- Thread starter quentez
- Start date
Put Zucc with Getzlaf and they would tear it up. Zucc has never played with an elite center and still produces first line points. He would be fine in the west
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Vatanen just signed a long term extension, I'm fairly certain from all indications that means he is off the table for the foreseeable future.
I could really see the Rangers highly coveting Brandon Montour, he would seem to represent something they lack in their system. If the Ducks were poking around some of the Rangers top forwards (other than Nash) it would seem fairly likely that Montour's name would come up.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Agree if you put Zucc with some bigger forwards then he should be fine, Putting Zucc with Getzlaf he's probably easily a 70 point per year Forward. He would definitely be a major upgrade for Anaheim. Just don't see Zucc for Fowler working for the Rangers unless BM added a pretty nice sweetner there.
WesMcCauley
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2015
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Gaudreau is better no doubt but he is one of the best offensive producers in the league. Zucc isnt pure speed at all, you saying that says everything about clueless you are about his game. He is fast but saying he is pure speed is completely wrong. He is gritty, works hard as hell, great passer and scored 26 this season. Fowler isnt anything more than a top 4. Pretty bad advanced stats. Lindholm and Vatanen are both better than Fowler.
Absolutely no interest in Fowler from a NYR point of view, specially not for Zuccarello.
- Jul 28, 2011
- 16,129
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Looking at the top 25 for individual player hits, and top 15 for team hits, you'll find that the east actually hits more. The west players a tighter game. But, I'm not about to look up player size vs the east...
You literally just mentioned how Fowler would have better advanced statistics if he had been playing with Shea Weber. What do you want me to bring up if you're talking about advanced stats? Their favourite colours? Pre-game meals? What their favourite shows were as a kid? C'mon man.
Fowler's a good dman. He's not a #1, he's in over his head with the workload he has in Anaheim, as you mentioned, but I don't think he's really a #2 either. He's capable of getting to that point, but I think he's at best a middle pairing guy right now
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Way to ignore the majority of the thread. Fowler's advanced stats suffer from being used above his head in a #1 role alongside sub par partners. He has taken on more responsibility than both Lindholm and Vatanen, and in fact Vatanen's stats suffered when he was thrust into Fowler's role last year.
You can't sit there and say "you obviously don't watch _____" and then turn around and think your opinion based on a hero chart means squat. Hockey isn't baseball, there are variables to consider when analyzing individual stats, they can't be taken as black and white.
lindholmie
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2015
- 1,980
- 60
Fowler puts up around 30+ points per season while playing the toughest opponents. Vatanen puts up around 40 while playing the easiest
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Let me be sure I am understanding you correctly. You are trying to defend Fowlers advanced stats when someone calls him a top 4 dman and you are doing this by saying that he is in over his head on the top pairing (Ryan McDonagh was paired with Dan Girardi and still looked like a top pairing defenseman). Wouldn't this make Fowler a top 4 and not a top 2 dman and prove the other posters point?
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WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
I didn't say Fowler was over his head playing on a top pairing, he's over his head leading a top pairing alongside a guy like Bieksa. We're saying he's a #2 who has been miscast as a #1, carrying a partner who doesn't belong in a top 4.
Of course Fowler (a #2 guy) is going to suffer more in that situation than McD who is a true #1 Dman.
NYR Viper
Registered User
The issue the Rangers have is:
McDonagh
Staal
Skjei
Graves
all LD
Klein
Girardi
McIlrath
Paliotta
all RD
Their strength is LD
Made Dan
Registered User
Big difference between the two. Vatanen I'd most certainly be interested in, just not gonna happen at this point though.
anezthes
Registered User
- Mar 20, 2014
- 4,764
- 3,144
Top 6 forward for top pairing PMD swap:
Cam Fowler, $4m AAV to 2018
2
Mats Zuccarello, $4.5m AAV to 2019
Rangers should have the need for a somewhat cheap PMD with top pairing qualities to replace Yandle.
Ducks desperately need skilled forwards, and in that case Zuccarello is pretty versatile and can play on both wings and on PP/PK.
Like Zuccarello, but don't think he'd be a fit here. No, thanks.
Yeah, so much grit.
If you really think Zucc is gritty, you don't know what "gritty" really means. 
Ok, I'll admit that Zucc isn't pure speed. He's got a decent shot on him and can obviously make good passes. However, you cannot deny that most of his scoring opportunities come on the break. Most Western teams don't play like that, so he wouldn't get those opportunities over here. We play a much slower game and that's why Hagelin sucked in ANA, but does well in the East. I'd fully expect the same result if we were to bring Zucc over. Hence, I'm not interested.
Now, back to the point of that post. The simple fact is that Gaudreau is better then Zucc. He's got better hands, a better ability to find space, better passing, better vision, the list goes on. Gaudreau may even be the faster skater. So saying that Zucc will be ok in the West because of Gaudreau is totally disingenious and wishful thinking. He'd mostly flop here.
Fowler is a top pairing D-man. The fact you think Vatanen is better shows how little you watch the Ducks, if at all. Lindholm was only better for the last 3 months of the season. Regardless, Lindholm + Manson is always going to have better numbers then Fowler + Bieksa.
The point was that Weber has been solid for NSH until this season. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The point I was making was that if you put Fowler with a solid #1D instead of a #6D, his numbers would improve to that of a #2D, which is exactly what he is. No one has said he's a #1D. He's a #2D being tasked with the role of a #1D all whilst partnered with a #6D. Of course his numbers look terrible. Stick him with a #1D and he'll be fine. He can play the minutes, he's very good at cleaning up dump-ins, he's very good at exiting the D-zone, he's very good at covering the break. He'd make for an excellent complimentary player to a #1D, particularly someone more offensive. Hence, I'd have liked to see him go to MTL before they moved PK.
McDonagh is a #1D doing the job a #1D with a bottom pairing D-man. Meanwhile, Fowler is a #2D doing the job of a #1D with a bottom pairing D-man. Big difference between a #1D and #2D. Hence, Fowler struggles more then McDonagh. Not that surprising really.
Fowler playing against the toughest opponents doesn't matter if they slaughter him everytime he's on the ice, no matter the competition or the teammate.
Rangers shouldn't want Fowler, he makes the defense equally as weak as if they didn't have him. Whether you care about shot suppression or not (and you should, unless you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years), that's the Rangers biggest weakness and a terrible shot/scoring chance suppressor isn't going to change that.
Then getting rid of Zucc for the same garbage defense? Jeez
Rangers shouldn't want Fowler, he makes the defense equally as weak as if they didn't have him. Whether you care about shot suppression or not (and you should, unless you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years), that's the Rangers biggest weakness and a terrible shot/scoring chance suppressor isn't going to change that.
Then getting rid of Zucc for the same garbage defense? Jeez
Konamic Ice Hockey
Registered User
Yeah, so much grit.
Ok, I'll admit that Zucc isn't pure speed. He's got a decent shot on him and can obviously make good passes. However, you cannot deny that most of his scoring opportunities come on the break. Most Western teams don't play like that, so he wouldn't get those opportunities over here. We play a much slower game and that's why Hagelin sucked in ANA, but does well in the East. I'd fully expect the same result if we were to bring Zucc over. Hence, I'm not interested.
Now, back to the point of that post. The simple fact is that Gaudreau is better then Zucc. He's got better hands, a better ability to find space, better passing, better vision, the list goes on. Gaudreau may even be the faster skater. So saying that Zucc will be ok in the West because of Gaudreau is totally disingenious and wishful thinking. He'd mostly flop here.
Fowler is a top pairing D-man. The fact you think Vatanen is better shows how little you watch the Ducks, if at all. Lindholm was only better for the last 3 months of the season. Regardless, Lindholm + Manson is always going to have better numbers then Fowler + Bieksa.
The point was that Weber has been solid for NSH until this season. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The point I was making was that if you put Fowler with a solid #1D instead of a #6D, his numbers would improve to that of a #2D, which is exactly what he is. No one has said he's a #1D. He's a #2D being tasked with the role of a #1D all whilst partnered with a #6D. Of course his numbers look terrible. Stick him with a #1D and he'll be fine. He can play the minutes, he's very good at cleaning up dump-ins, he's very good at exiting the D-zone, he's very good at covering the break. He'd make for an excellent complimentary player to a #1D, particularly someone more offensive. Hence, I'd have liked to see him go to MTL before they moved PK.
McDonagh is a #1D doing the job a #1D with a bottom pairing D-man. Meanwhile, Fowler is a #2D doing the job of a #1D with a bottom pairing D-man. Big difference between a #1D and #2D. Hence, Fowler struggles more then McDonagh. Not that surprising really.
Good job showing a few goals to show you have no clue the type of player Zucc is.
1 He is really not that fast, he finds the soft spots and has a good hop in his first couple strides. If NYR had a team race he would be around 4th to 8th place.
2 Passing is his strong suit.
3 He is gritty, he is always starting stuff in the corners and in front of the net.
If I am trying to sell him to another GM I do not think I would even bring up his speed. He is the best passer on the Rangers. In general probably the best hands on the Rangers. Plays a really smart game at both ends of the ice.
Try watching a player before you make statements that are very very wrong.
As a Rangers fan I want nothing to do with Fowler if Zucc is going. No need for a LD.
Ducks in a row
Go Ducks Quack Quack
We are not trading Vatanen we re-signed him and he wanted to stay on the Ducks a team he liked growing up. He is also easily are best right shooting defenseman.
We are not interested in Nash and we are not trading Theodore.
Your right he will never be a top pair defenseman
He lead our team in ice time during both the regular season and playoffs while having a crappy defense partner something he has had so much of in his career.News flash, I was just trying to figure out something using the OP's proposal as a basis. Fowler is a middle pair dman, with terrible offensive numbers for the minutes he gets, and terrible shot suppression and generation numbers.
Tell me again how that deal is so unfair. In fact, ANA looks to get the better end of it, so I retract my offer. Fowler is even worse than I originally thought.
Weber and Josi had terrible shot suppression stats I guess the Predators top defense pair was only good for offensive production they should of been sheltered so not exposed when facing against opposing teams scorers
God these advanced stats have been a terrible thing to happen to hockey people look at them and judge a player on it with little of actually watching the player play which is very important a reason why teams have scouts.
1. Huh? That's not even what I meant. He's pure speed as in... most of his goals are on the break i.e. limited skill goals with quite a few being out-numbered attacks. Those videos prove that to be true. Zucc also uses his speed to pad his goal totals with empty netters. Not interested.
2. Agreed.
3. "Starting stuff in the corners" isn't grit.
Fine. We're in agreement then. You don't want Fowler and we don't want Zucc. Pleasure doing business with you.
Igor Shestyorkin
#26, the sickest of 'em all.
cbj21
Registered User
Lol to the one saying zucc will most likely flop in the West. What a silly commet. There is 0 evidence of that but plenty that says othervice.
HFBoards is a funny place!
HFBoards is a funny place!
Lol to the one saying zucc will most likely flop in the West. What a silly commet. There is 0 evidence of that but plenty that says othervice.
HFBoards is a funny place!
Huh? He hasn't played in the West, so there is no evidence either way.
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