GDT: Four Nations

[ps241]

I only started watching in the 3rd with 12 mins left so I’m only going by the stats and what I saw at the end.
Johnson playing Guentzel like he’s Gretzky … is a joke. Guentzel leads the team forwards with the most giveaways in the 3 games yet he demoted KFC who only had 2 turnovers in the first game none since the. and in the 3rd KFC looked dangerous and only played 12 mins.

This was probably KFC’s best game but that isn’t saying much. He was totally invisible in the first two games and he was put on the 4th line for a reason. With the US starting 11 forwards and losing B Tkachuk after a minute of usage that opened the door for Kyle to actually get 14:00 minutes of ice time tonight but he only managed to generate 1 shot on goal.

So far Team USA’s style of play does not suit Connor’s game.

 

[PhilJets]

Oh boy!!!!
CANADA vs USA

If USA wins and Helly plays gret i could take that.
But best for Canada to win!!! a 1-0 or 2-1 game with lots of high grade shots on both sides. End to End.

But seeing USA, they will probably clog it up if they get the lead specially early.

Every goal that Helle has let in this tournament has been in the first period.
The trend continues. Those first few shots every game seems to be his Kryptonite.

Eventually I'll have the time to do the digging, but for now I'll first ask if anyone has a breakdown of goals by period against Helle this year.

Edit: I didn't realize that Helle has a day off today. But would still be interesting to see his first period stats.

But , it seems like a lot of early goals for almost all the games this tournament right? Not just on Helly.

 

[GNP]

A number of forwards on Canada struggling with the pace.
Konecny, Cirelli, Jarvis, Hagel hustle but not fast or skilled enough to do damage.

Should've had guys like Scheif, Hyman, Byfield, Celebrini, Fantili, Wilson.

From what I have seen, Scheifele should definitely be on this team. If my memory serves me correctly, he’s in the Top 10 in scoring in the NHL. He’s big and fast, and has a great shot, along with being a great playmaker.

Personally, I’d be playing Scheif over guys like Marchand, Point, and likely Stone, as well as the others you mentioned, like Cirelli, Jarvis, Hagel etc. It’s just not right.

Good thing about it, is he can’t get injured, and will come back rested for the Jets.

 

[snowkiddin]

Decided to make my own roster for this tournament (or next year’s Olympics). Not what I THINK will happen but just what I would do if I were in charge. Critique away:

Forwards (14)
Connor McDavid
Nathan Mackinnon
Sidney Crosby
Brayden Point
Mark Scheifele
Brad Marchand
Robert Thomas
Mark Stone
Connor Bedard
Mitch Marner
Sam Reinhart
Matt Barzal
John Tavares
Travis Konecny

Defence (8)
Cale Makar
Devon Toews
Josh Morrissey
Alex Pietrangelo
Mackenzie Weegar
Morgan Rielly
Drew Doughty
Shea Theodore

Goalies (3)
Logan Thompson
Mackenzie Blackwood
Darcy Kuemper

Lines
Point McDavid Scheifele
Crosby Mackinnon Marchand
Marner Konecny Stone
Reinhart Thomas Bedard

Tavares, Barzal

Toews Makar
Morrissey Weegar
Theodore Pietrangelo

Rielly, Doughty

Goalies: Start whoever is having the best season at the time, in this case I’d start Thompson and have Kuemper as backup with Blackwood in the press box.

—-
First forward line, McDavid and Point kill teams with speed, McDavid distributes to Point and Scheifele, both high-scoring Cs that play well with star playmaking wingers. Second line, the Nova Scotia connection is cool — Crosby and Marchand have played together lots before and Mack is a matchup nightmare on the second line. Third line is three Selke candidates and Konecny and Marner are great PKers — good shutdown line. Fourth line - Thomas is one of the best set-up men in the league and you pair him with a top goalscorer in Reinhart and a guy with a world-class shot in Bedard. Tavares comes in if a center goes down, Barzal comes in if you need speed or lose a PKer.

D: Toews/Makar - straightforward pair that plays together. Weegar and Morrissey are both 1Ds whose games I think would mesh well. Theodore and Pietrangelo would have chemistry too. Rielly adds offence coming in from the bullpen if needed and Doughty has physicality and experience.

 

[Gm0ney]

Every goal that Helle has let in this tournament has been in the first period.
The trend continues. Those first few shots every game seems to be his Kryptonite.

Eventually I'll have the time to do the digging, but for now I'll first ask if anyone has a breakdown of goals by period against Helle this year.

Edit: I didn't realize that Helle has a day off today. But would still be interesting to see his first period stats.

The team stats are pretty easy to look up on NHL.com. Hellebuyck doesn't play every game, but the Jets have allowed the 2nd fewest goals against in the 1st period (34) so far this season. The fewest is 32 by LAK but they've played 3 fewer games. I think it's safe to say 1st period goals haven't been a weakness for Hellebuyck this year.

 

[Jets 31]

This was probably KFC’s best game but that isn’t saying much. He was totally invisible in the first two games and he was put on the 4th line for a reason. With the US starting 11 forwards and losing B Tkachuk after a minute of usage that opened the door for Kyle to actually get 14:00 minutes of ice time tonight but he only managed to generate 1 shot on goal.

So far Team USA’s style of play does not suit Connor’s game.

Connor is used to playing 20 minutes a night plus top PP , has to have a effect i think. Honestly though i hope the US bench him for the last game because i don't want him to get hurt.

 

[ps241]

Connor is used to playing 20 minutes a night plus top PP , has to have a effect i think. Honestly though i hope the US bench him for the last game because i don't want him to get hurt.

100% on Connor struggling “in a much different role than he is used to”. There is zero shame in what Kyle is going through. This is a totally different level of hockey and almost all forwards are struggling to find a way to modify their games. Until Finland Nate MacKinnon was totally stymied. There is no time and space out there and you just don’t get to play with the puck on your stick like you do in the NHL. For a guy like KC it’s extra tough because he does not have the natural physicality to just grind a bit harder. He’s turned into a very respectable back checker in the NHL but defense is not his natural game so they give him less minutes. Kyle is an opportunist with elite hands but teams are taking away opportunities and forcing players to modify their games. No forward is playing with the puck on their stick like they usually do. Even MacK’s two goals yesterday where just right place right time use your speed but get the puck off your stick the instant you touch it. Nate has had to learn that he isn’t going to break down the D by carrying the puck allot like he usually does.

KC is not done yet (unless they sub him out for Krieder now). He still has the ability to score a bang bang type goal vs Canada but he is probably only getting one look if he is lucky. That is the nature of this very high level of play.

Despite his struggles this tournament will help him for the playoffs this season. He will be more ready for that level of competition now. Mark my words KC will finally find a different level in the playoffs this season and be a difference maker and it’s going to be because of his experience in the Four Nations cup.

 

[voyageur]

Decided to make my own roster for this tournament (or next year’s Olympics). Not what I THINK will happen but just what I would do if I were in charge. Critique away:

Forwards (14)
Connor McDavid
Nathan Mackinnon
Sidney Crosby
Brayden Point
Mark Scheifele
Brad Marchand
Robert Thomas
Mark Stone
Connor Bedard
Mitch Marner
Sam Reinhart
Matt Barzal
John Tavares
Travis Konecny

Defence (8)
Cale Makar
Devon Toews
Josh Morrissey
Alex Pietrangelo
Mackenzie Weegar
Morgan Rielly
Drew Doughty
Shea Theodore

Goalies (3)
Logan Thompson
Mackenzie Blackwood
Darcy Kuemper

Lines
Point McDavid Scheifele
Crosby Mackinnon Marchand
Marner Konecny Stone
Reinhart Thomas Bedard

Tavares, Barzal

Toews Makar
Morrissey Weegar
Theodore Pietrangelo

Rielly, Doughty

Goalies: Start whoever is having the best season at the time, in this case I’d start Thompson and have Kuemper as backup with Blackwood in the press box.

—-
First forward line, McDavid and Point kill teams with speed, McDavid distributes to Point and Scheifele, both high-scoring Cs that play well with star playmaking wingers. Second line, the Nova Scotia connection is cool — Crosby and Marchand have played together lots before and Mack is a matchup nightmare on the second line. Third line is three Selke candidates and Konecny and Marner are great PKers — good shutdown line. Fourth line - Thomas is one of the best set-up men in the league and you pair him with a top goalscorer in Reinhart and a guy with a world-class shot in Bedard. Tavares comes in if a center goes down, Barzal comes in if you need speed or lose a PKer.

D: Toews/Makar - straightforward pair that plays together. Weegar and Morrissey are both 1Ds whose games I think would mesh well. Theodore and Pietrangelo would have chemistry too. Rielly adds offence coming in from the bullpen if needed and Doughty has physicality and experience.

I'll throw a few of names out that I think could be on the radar.

Dylan Guenther strikes me as the kind of sniper that would thrive with Mc David.

Matt Barzal seems like the kind of player who could skate with Mc Jesus.

I think PLD gets on the radar as potentially the only French Canadian to make the team in the politics of the sport. And maybe the most powerful power forward available to the team. He also has Team Canada experience in 2022 which may be to his benefit.

Wyatt Johnston might be a guy that gets some attention if he has another strong playoff.

Evan Bouchard to me seems like a guy who could replace Colton Parayko as Josh Morrissey's d-partner.

 

[FiveHoled]

I haven't read the boards tonight but one thing I can say for sure .. I wish they had any other goalie.

 

[pictman]

I haven't read the boards tonight but one thing I can say for sure .. I wish they had any other goalie.

Every time I watch Binnington I think, " Damn I'm glad the Jets have Helly ". Binnington looks like a fresh caught fish tossed in the bottom of a boat.
Helly is just there when the puck is.

 

[Jet]

Was thinking about Oetinger playing today…Helle played Saturday and then not again till Thursday? Helle likes to have the crease, not so sure that is a beneficial move for USA.

Thoughts?

I was thinking the same thing. If I'm Canada I'm coming out guns a blazing and throwing everything at the net to try and get a lead.

 

[Jets 31]

I was thinking the same thing. If I'm Canada I'm coming out guns a blazing and throwing everything at the net to try and get a lead.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Decided to make my own roster for this tournament (or next year’s Olympics). Not what I THINK will happen but just what I would do if I were in charge. Critique away:

Forwards (14)
Connor McDavid
Nathan Mackinnon
Sidney Crosby
Brayden Point
Mark Scheifele
Brad Marchand
Robert Thomas
Mark Stone
Connor Bedard
Mitch Marner
Sam Reinhart
Matt Barzal
John Tavares
Travis Konecny

Defence (8)
Cale Makar
Devon Toews
Josh Morrissey
Alex Pietrangelo
Mackenzie Weegar
Morgan Rielly
Drew Doughty
Shea Theodore

Goalies (3)
Logan Thompson
Mackenzie Blackwood
Darcy Kuemper

Lines
Point McDavid Scheifele
Crosby Mackinnon Marchand
Marner Konecny Stone
Reinhart Thomas Bedard

Tavares, Barzal

Toews Makar
Morrissey Weegar
Theodore Pietrangelo

Rielly, Doughty

Goalies: Start whoever is having the best season at the time, in this case I’d start Thompson and have Kuemper as backup with Blackwood in the press box.

—-
First forward line, McDavid and Point kill teams with speed, McDavid distributes to Point and Scheifele, both high-scoring Cs that play well with star playmaking wingers. Second line, the Nova Scotia connection is cool — Crosby and Marchand have played together lots before and Mack is a matchup nightmare on the second line. Third line is three Selke candidates and Konecny and Marner are great PKers — good shutdown line. Fourth line - Thomas is one of the best set-up men in the league and you pair him with a top goalscorer in Reinhart and a guy with a world-class shot in Bedard. Tavares comes in if a center goes down, Barzal comes in if you need speed or lose a PKer.

D: Toews/Makar - straightforward pair that plays together. Weegar and Morrissey are both 1Ds whose games I think would mesh well. Theodore and Pietrangelo would have chemistry too. Rielly adds offence coming in from the bullpen if needed and Doughty has physicality and experience.

Crosby and marchand will be 38 and 37... id look at celebrini and strome

 

[snowkiddin]

Crosby and marchand will be 38 and 37... id look at celebrini and strome

I think if he's healthy Sid will be there pretty much no matter what. He's still producing over a PPG on a shit team, has tons of experience, is a clutch player under pressure, and has super-duper high hockey sense.

Marchand I was admittedly on the fence about including. I like how he has experience with Crosby and in big games but from what I can tell, his game has fallen off a bit. Celebrini was one of my final cuts so I don't hate making that swap. Hadn't considered Strome.

 

[snowkiddin]

I'll throw a few of names out that I think could be on the radar.

Dylan Guenther strikes me as the kind of sniper that would thrive with Mc David.

Matt Barzal seems like the kind of player who could skate with Mc Jesus.

I think PLD gets on the radar as potentially the only French Canadian to make the team in the politics of the sport. And maybe the most powerful power forward available to the team. He also has Team Canada experience in 2022 which may be to his benefit.

Wyatt Johnston might be a guy that gets some attention if he has another strong playoff.

Evan Bouchard to me seems like a guy who could replace Colton Parayko as Josh Morrissey's d-partner.

I'm a big Guenther fan — super underrated, I'd be happy with him on the team.

I know Barzal hasn't been a world beater lately but I like him stylistically for my team. Great skater and passer.

I think I'd sooner include Chabot if Hockey Canada wants to have a token French Canadian.

Wyatt Johnston was another guy I was considering. I'd certainly have him over Jarvis.

I almost went with Bouchard as my extra D. I put Doughty there for his defence, physicality, and experience, and because I already had an offensive D in my pressbox with Rielly, but Doughty is in danger of falling off in the next season. If he does, I'd replace him with either Bouchard or Dobson.

 

[Whileee]

I might be in the minority but I'm not all that enthusiastic about this tournament and the outcome. I was a bit charged up by the antics of the Tkachuk and Miller Captain America schtick, but that was temporary.

At this point I'm just hoping that Hellebuyck, Morrissey and Connor don't get injured, regardless of the outcome.

I'm not at all worried about Connor's minimal role and impact. If he's flying below the radar it might moderate his next contract level, which will likely be negotiated this summer.

 

[kanadalainen]

I'm a big Guenther fan — super underrated, I'd be happy with him on the team.

I know Barzal hasn't been a world beater lately but I like stylistically for my team. Great skater and passer.

I think I'd sooner include Chabot if Hockey Canada wants to have a token French Canadian.

Wyatt Johnston was another guy I was considering. I'd certainly have him over Jarvis.

I almost went with Bouchard as my extra D. I put Doughty there for his defence, physicality, and experience, and because I already had an offensive D in my pressbox with Rielly, but Doughty is in danger of falling off in the next season. If he does, I'd replace him with either Bouchard or Dobson.

Very thoughtful comments, really like your list (minus Doughty) for the Olympics, thanks.

 

[snowkiddin]

Very thoughtful comments, really like your list (minus Doughty) for the Olympics, thanks.

Thanks! I have Doughty there as a bit of a legacy pick, plus he had a good season last year and has loads of experience. He's one of those tweeners that will either play his way on to or off of the team in the next year IMO

 

[surixon]

It's hard to say for the Olympics as it will come down to how players are playing for me:

Core guys will will be there if healthy:

Crosby, McDavid, Makar, Mackinnon

After that it gets interesting here are my near locks:

Point
Reinhart
Toews
Morrissey
Theodore
Marner

Vets who will be there if games haven't fallen off a cliff:
Doughty, Marchand

In the mix forwards in no particular order:
Barzal
Scheifele
Stone
Konecny
Hagel
Jarvis
Lafreniere
Bedard
Johnson
Hyman
Suzuki

In the mix dmen
Dobson
Bouchard
Weager
Power
Harley
Montour
Chabot

Goalies in mix
Thompson
Blackwood
Binnington
Hill

To me the roster will be filled out by which players are aging best in the in the mix category.

 

[EpicGingy]

 

[kanadalainen]

Anyone know the status of Matthews?

 

[buggs]

At this point I'm just hoping that Hellebuyck, Morrissey and Connor don't get injured, regardless of the outcome.

This.

Other potential outcomes from the tourney that may benefit us:

Morrissey gets some recognition around the league rather than perpetually flying under the radar. That mostly benefits him rather than the Jets but it is both earned and deserved.

Hellebuyck sheds a bit of the "choker" label in the final.

Connor learns something of the physicality that would be required to generate more minutes for himself for the American team which would benefit the Jets come playoff time. Also hoping he comes back with a chip on his shoulder from the limited minutes.

Continued 'chip on the shoulder' play for the remainder of the season and through the playoffs for Scheifele.

 

[snowkiddin]

It's hard to say for the Olympics as it will come down to how players are playing for me:

Core guys will will be there if healthy:

Crosby, McDavid, Makar, Mackinnon

After that it gets interesting here are my near locks:

Point
Reinhart
Toews
Morrissey
Theodore
Marner

Vets who will be there if games haven't fallen off a cliff:
Doughty, Marchand

In the mix forwards in no particular order:
Barzal
Scheifele
Stone
Konecny
Hagel
Jarvis
Lafreniere
Bedard
Johnson
Hyman
Suzuki

In the mix dmen
Dobson
Bouchard
Weager
Power
Harley
Montour
Chabot

Goalies in mix
Thompson
Blackwood
Binnington
Hill

To me the roster will be filled out by which players are aging best in the in the mix category.

I really like how you've broken this up into tiers. I'd lean towards including Stone in the "near lock" category — I think Hockey Canada will want him there. I'd say Celebrini and Wilson would also be in the mix at forward and Kuemper (and I guess Montembeault since he's at this tournament) in the mix in goal. Pietrangelo in the mix on D.

 

[Mooche]

Couple things for 2026 for me....

-For the love of God, just bring the best in-form trio of goalies. Figure it out from there and ride the hot hand. There's no need to galaxy brain that decision.

-Pace of play needs to be considered. The pace in a lot of these games, notably Canada-Sweden and Canada-USA (of course) was outrageous. I am fine for bringing smart, responsible players to tournaments but they are rendered nearly ineffective if they are a stride or two behind the puck every shift. I'm fine with obviously bringing a Sid in a sheltered role, but there can't be legacy picks all over the roster.

-There's always going to be options in Canada. That said, we need some of those guys on some of the lists above in the "mix" category to take that leap. Some will, some won't, it's the nature of the game and age. That said, guys like Laffy, Celebrini, etc. have that bit of snarl along with the quickness to be impactful. There should be no fear of rolling four lines against anybody and playing the odd match-up. No need for full team lines with players like Cirelli who aren't even close to the caliber of competition at this point.

All things considered here, they are in a pretty damn good spot. Goaltending is the large black eye but we've known this would be an issue since honestly Price stepped away. There's just far less room for error in these sort of caliber tournaments now with outhinking yourself because a guy won a Stanley Cup in 2019. Need to take in-form, productive players who can help in the here and now for tournaments.

 

[Xavier Laflamme]