World Cup: Four Nations Tournament-Team Canada

[jj cale]

Ex

Canada because my country isn’t allowed to play

Excellent choice.

 

[Mathieukferland]

 

[TheDoldrums]

Don't think Owen Power is ready for a spot at this stage

 

[EpochLink]

Stacked on forwards and defense, question mark is the goaltending

 

[NordiquesForeva]

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Not a bad team, tbh. Hagel probably needs a good start to the 2024-25 season to secure a roster spot and personally I'd prefer Lafreniere or Byfield over him, but overall a good team. I like how RNH and Barzal provide C/LW and C/RW optionality as the spare forwards.

Don't think Owen Power is ready for a spot at this stage

You're probably right, but I'd be OK with the selection if he's solely there as the #7/8 d-man and to get some practice reps and a game or two with the senior team in preparation for future best-on-best tournaments (when he projects as a top-4 d-man for Canada).

 

[Nucks2001]

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I don’t understand how Robert Thomas isn’t included by TSN. He’s probably a shoe-in with Armstrong on this team, you can make an arguement that he’s the 4th best passer on this team after McDavid, Crosby and MacKinnon. Him and Marner are close. He’s bigger than Suzuki, better at face-offs and can argue he’s better defensively than him too.

 

[HFpapi]

Marner should absolutely not be on this team

509 points in 417 games (1.22 ppg) over the past 6 seasons. (3rd in scoring among Canadian skaters in that period). 27 years old, dead smack in the middle of his prime. One of the very few elite natural wingers Canada has, and among our best defensive forwards. (I think the only player in contention for this team to have a Selke nom in fact).

Leaving Marner off this team is actually crazy.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

509 points in 417 games (1.22 ppg) over the past 6 seasons. (3rd in scoring among Canadian skaters in that period). 27 years old, dead smack in the middle of his prime. One of the very few elite natural wingers Canada has, and among our best defensive forwards. (I think the only player in contention for this team to have a Selke nom in fact).

Leaving Marner off this team is actually crazy.

Soft perimeter player who shys away from physical contact and disappears in the playoffs

Absolutely does not fit in with this group, and one of the last guys you want in high pressure games

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Soft perimeter player who shys away from physical contact and disappears in the playoffs

Absolutely does not fit in with this group, and one of the last guys you want in high pressure games

It's international play not the NHL playoffs. I think the only noteworthy hit in international play in the past 20 years was Ovechkin on jagr.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I don't care one way or the other, but Marner being a playoff dud will impact getting called to the team.

 

[Zybalto]

509 points in 417 games (1.22 ppg) over the past 6 seasons. (3rd in scoring among Canadian skaters in that period). 27 years old, dead smack in the middle of his prime. One of the very few elite natural wingers Canada has, and among our best defensive forwards. (I think the only player in contention for this team to have a Selke nom in fact).

Leaving Marner off this team is actually crazy.

Of course its nuts but its the mainstream narrative at the moment. Leafs lost last series because of Marner and not the fact Matthews, Nylander and McMann got hurt and their starter got pulled for the 2nd series in a row while up against Swayman.

It all comes down to the Leafs raging and the little prick is certainly an easy target. Most fans dont see or care about defensive forwards for the most part though but here are his stats that so many want him gone.

In the playoffs over the last 3 seasons:

MVP of their only series win
Points: 25 points in 25 games (leads the team)
Tied for 11th for all forwards for PPG (min 20 games played)

Not super impressive I guess but decent considering the teams PP struggles but then you look at the defensive side of the game you were talking about.

He's been the one of the matchup guys against the other teams top players in every series (up against the Kucherovs/Pastas of the league)

This is a fun stat:

Top 5v5 playoff goal differential league the last 3 years and top difference relative teammates (min 300 minutes played):

Top goal differential (out of 88 forwards)
1. Karlsson: 76.72%
2. Marchessault: 72.71%
3. Landeskog: 68.72%
4. Jarvis: 66.42%
5. Eichel: 66.05%
6. Marner: 64.20%
7. Rodrigues: 63.66%
8. McDavid: 63.50%
9. Hyman: 62.60%
10. Barabashev: 62.50%

Top 10 goal differential REL (out of 88 forwards) to see which players performed as a percentage compared in their jobs to their teammates:
1. McDavid (+23.36%)
2. Marner (+22.21%)
3. Hyman (+18.43%)
4. Karlsson (+17.44%)
5. Landeskog (+17.33%)
6. Jarvis (+17.24%)
7. Marchand (+16.27%)
8. Matthews (+15.84%)
9. Rodrigues (+15.45%)
10. Marchessault (+14.41%)

With the passage of time and losing primes of guys like Bergeron/Couts/O'Reilly etc, Marner is a must as he has been one of the best defensive wingers in the league for both the regular season and the playoffs which is why his REL numbers are up there with McDavid (another guy, the best player in the world, suffering for goaltending and depth issues on his team). I mean, the outcomes say he is one of the most valuable 5v5 players in the playoffs the last half decade. Considering both Marner and McDavid have had to contend with a massive difference in goaltender quality while they are playing makes it all so much more impressive. I think picking him is a no brainer and he can play in all situations. He's as much a lock as anyone else and leaving him off the team is a recipe for a 2006 style debacle.

 

[JackSlater]

Marner wouldn't sniff my team if Canada was typically loaded but he has a chance at the moment. The perception that he stinks in the playoffs will definitely be held against him. He hasn't played internationally since the 2017 iihf world championship (where he was very good generally as a junior eligible player) so that doesn't really help. The biggest problem is that he is a playmaking winger and Canada is almost always focused on playmaking at centre and complementing those centres. The unique thing is that he is pretty good defensively, not that he should actually contend for a Selke but he's better than a scoring winger would typically be.

The question is also who Marner fits with stylistically. I don't see it with McDavid where you're going to want McDavid to have the puck as much as possible. Don't see it with Crosby and how he generally plays. Maybe MacKinnon, who has done some good work with a playmaker on his line before. Maybe Point, Marner's centre in 2017 at the iihf world championship. He should be in contention but not a lock.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Marner wouldn't sniff my team if Canada was typically loaded but he has a chance at the moment. The perception that he stinks in the playoffs will definitely be held against him. He hasn't played internationally since the 2017 iihf world championship (where he was very good generally as a junior eligible player) so that doesn't really help. The biggest problem is that he is a playmaking winger and Canada is almost always focused on playmaking at centre and complementing those centres. The unique thing is that he is pretty good defensively, not that he should actually contend for a Selke but he's better than a scoring winger would typically be.

The question is also who Marner fits with stylistically. I don't see it with McDavid where you're going to want McDavid to have the puck as much as possible. Don't see it with Crosby and how he generally plays. Maybe MacKinnon, who has done some good work with a playmaker on his line before. Maybe Point, Marner's centre in 2017 at the iihf world championship. He should be in contention but not a lock.

I think he fits well with Robert Thomas and Reinhart. He skates with Thomas in Ontario and they know each other quite well. Reinhart completes a really strong defensive line by being able to score playing with two of the top set up men in the league

 

[JackSlater]

I think he fits well with Robert Thomas and Reinhart. He skates with Thomas in Ontario and they know each other quite well. Reinhart completes a really strong defensive line by being able to score playing with two of the top set up men in the league

It's a good defensive line. Thomas and Marner are strong skaters, Reinhart is a quality finisher like they'd desperately need. Someone plays out of position, which may not be a big deal. Not bad.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I usually have a pretty good sense of which way the wind is blowing on these things, but with Marner I have no idea. He could be an absolute lock and already penciled-in to a top-6 role, or could not even be under consideration by Armstrong. If I were to guess right now, I think he'll make the team in a depth role. The fact that he is such a good defensive winger and PKer (in addition to the obvious offensive skill and production) is likely what puts him over the top. While the comparison to previous smallish playmaking wingers (e.g., St. Louis) is appropriate, Marner has a huge edge defensively and could probably handle a more limited role and contribute that way, if that is how Armstrong/Cooper configure the forward group.

In terms of deployment, it probably has a lot to do with how Cooper lines up his centres. McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Point are all already on the team. Does Point move to the wing, or is he left to centre a bottom-6 line? Does MacKinnon move to the wing to play with Crosby? If Cooper runs McDavid, MacKinnon, and Crosby down the middle (with Point on the wing in the top-9), there is a spot for Marner on the 4th line with Thomas/Suzuki. I don't think I necessarily like Marner with either McDavid or MacKinnon. With McDavid, I'd like to see him with Hyman on one side and a trigger-man on the other (Point, or Bedard if he's ready). I'd like to see MacKinnon with more speed and aggression on the wings, allowing that line to push the pace on the rush and also be a force on the forecheck. If Marchand plays on Crosby's left side, does it really make sense to have Marner on his right-side? He wouldn't add anything complementary there, unless that line is used as a shut-down line and if so I would question whether there is sufficient size/physicality there. In fact, Reinhart should play on Crosby's right side as he's an elite defensive winger and can score goals (benefiting from Crosby's and Marchand's playmaking).

 

[Nucks2001]

I chuckle at this. Marner is a lock guys. He’s by far Canada’s best pure winger and you never leave off your best winger if you’re trying to win Gold. Yes, he has his his playoff struggles. Yes, he may not be the toughest player out there. But you can’t tell me that you’re not taking the 3rd highest scoring Canadian player the past 4 season and a Selke Finalist who is in his prime. He’ll fit in somewhere on the roster.

The fact of the matter is, Canada lacks a lot of playmakers in their bottom 6 if they choose to run Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon and Point all in their top 6. Reinhart, Horvat, Verhaege.. etc are not the type of players I think to run a line’s offence and Marner fits that role to a tee.

 

[therealdeal]

Yeah I’m with Nucks. Another plus for Marner, and really everyone on the team, is that there are lots of guys who can score. He’s one small cog, where on the Leafs he’s one of 1-3 BIG cogs, and it’s all on them.

Diffusion of responsibility is great for guys like Marner.

 

[CuuuJooo]

I didn’t think that Binnington impressed at the Worlds and would rather give Montembault or Blackwood a spot.

 

[Nucks2001]

I didn’t think that Binnington impressed at the Worlds and would rather give Montembault or Blackwood a spot.

Agreed. Would like to see Montembault if Hockey Canada gives him a look.

 

[JackSlater]

I chuckle at this. Marner is a lock guys. He’s by far Canada’s best pure winger and you never leave off your best winger if you’re trying to win Gold. Yes, he has his his playoff struggles. Yes, he may not be the toughest player out there. But you can’t tell me that you’re not taking the 3rd highest scoring Canadian player the past 4 season and a Selke Finalist who is in his prime. He’ll fit in somewhere on the roster.

The fact of the matter is, Canada lacks a lot of playmakers in their bottom 6 if they choose to run Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon and Point all in their top 6. Reinhart, Horvat, Verhaege.. etc are not the type of players I think to run a line’s offence and Marner fits that role to a tee.

He very well might be there but there's no way he's a lock. Playmakers, especially on the wing, are hard pressed to make team Canada at the best on best level historically even when people think they are a given. Wingers also pretty much never function as the offensive focus of their line when it comes to Canada. Better players than Marner have been cut by Canada at the best on best level, and right now he's pretty much at his nadir in terms of perception. A strong start likely gets him on the team but if he was a stone cold lock they probably would have selected him already, at least ahead of Marchand.