OT: Football Thread

[NickyFotiu]

I gotta disagree. 1st round QBs fail more than they succeed. I mean all QB picks fail more, in all honesty.

Wilson has no chance at all with the Jets trying to play through this, this year. The rest of the roster is ready to at least play .500. Wilson is ready to be on an expansion team and work through it.

The scouts liked the arm and the, unironically, Aaron Rodgers style play to him coming out of BYU. What they totally ignored was the lack of competition and his total inability to read a defense, and his own offense.

Steve Young prolly likes him because there's some comparisons between them. Both BYU guys. Similar games with airing it out, Young was more of a rusher. Young was a bust before going to San Fran and playing behind Montana. Wilson is a current bust, people are hoping Rodgers who plays a similar style, will save him.

The problem is the Steve Young stories are far and few between. Rich Gannon and Doug Flutie are some comps in this. Hoping for Wilson to make it is no safe play for any GM, nevermind a fan. Like I said before, Wilson needed to sit his first 2 years, not the next 2 years in his career.

I'm not disagreeing about most QBs failing. I'm saying most teams do not give up on a #2 pick in their first 2 years especially on a rookie contract. That goes for any position.

So now the Jets have drafted QBs at #3 and #2 in the last 5 years and will have almost nothing to show for it.

 

[bbny]

I'm not disagreeing about most QBs failing. I'm saying most teams do not give up on a #2 pick in their first 2 years especially on a rookie contract. That goes for any position.

So now the Jets have drafted QBs at #3 and #2 in the last 5 years and will have almost nothing to show for it.

I think the Jets needed patience with Wilson, and they poorly gauged his maturity to learn under fire and handle the resulting pressure. The physical tools are there IMO. The problem is the Jets can’t wait at this stage as the rest of the team looks fairly ready to compete. They could put him on the back burner and make him a backup to a stop-gap like Rodgers, but when Rodgers is done Wilson will be 25-26 and any rookie contract advantage will be gone.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Bears traded the #1 pick to the Panthers for the #9 and #61 picks in 2023, 2024 #1 and 2025 #2 along with WR DJ Moore.

 

[duhmetreE]

Jets get Aaron Rodgers and hope to compete for the next 2 years.

Zach Wilson learns under him.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Bears traded the #1 pick to the Panthers for the #9 and #61 picks in 2023, 2024 #1 and 2025 #2 along with WR DJ Moore.

The disrespect to Darnold smh

 

[Barnaby]

I never thought Bieniemy would leave KC for anything other than a HC gig. If he was a possibility, I wish the Jets would have waited on their OC hire.

No thanks. Based on what?

He wasn’t calling the plays in KC.

In fact, the only time he did call plays was for a stint in college at Colorado. The team scored more both before he was there and after he left.

He also had a number of off the field issues (granted it was a long time ago), and some pretty dark recruitment violations. I’ll give everyone one lapse in judgement. Heck, I’ll even give them two so long as they aren’t heinous. However, multiple incidents give me some character concerns.

I see nothing in his past that makes me think he’s a slam dunk hire. The most that can be said for him is that he spent time in an Andy Reid organization, but we’ve seen plenty from great organizations fail. It also makes me nervous that he went for so many HC interviews and never got hired. That’s not the minority angle either as we’ve seen other diversity hires. Some, whom I’d never heard of before landing a HC job.

That’s not to say he can’t be an OC and knock it out of the park. Maybe he does. Maybe he even becomes a great HC. However, for where the Jets are right now, I wouldn’t even interview you if you haven’t had success as an OC calling plays in this league. The Jets need a guy who’s done it.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I'm not disagreeing about most QBs failing. I'm saying most teams do not give up on a #2 pick in their first 2 years especially on a rookie contract. That goes for any position.

So now the Jets have drafted QBs at #3 and #2 in the last 5 years and will have almost nothing to show for it.

I mean Wilson is awful, if you can't see that I don't know what to say. Josh Johnson of all people came in and put up stats that Wilson can't match. The bigger thing is the team is ready to play competitive football and maybe the playoffs. Wilson isn't ready for the XFL. They have to give up on him.

And again most QBs fail. Saying they drafted #3 and #2 and have nothing to show for it isn't some insane thing. Darnold had no talent around him and got ruined, he also prolly wasn't a top tier QB. Wilson has the talent and just plain sucks

 

[East Coast Bias]

You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think Zach Wilson will ever be a thing here. He’s not gonna sit and learn from Rodgers, or anyone else. He’s finished.

Not a single fellow player on that team respects him. They’re all openly recruiting Rodgers. They wore mike white t-shirts.

There’s been plenty of articles inside the locker room. The Athletic had a detailed one. There is no love lost for Wilson. He’s done here.

 

[smoneil]

You’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think Zach Wilson will ever be a thing here. He’s not gonna sit and learn from Rodgers, or anyone else. He’s finished.

Not a single fellow player on that team respects him. They’re all openly recruiting Rodgers. They wore mike white t-shirts.

There’s been plenty of articles inside the locker room. The Athletic had a detailed one. There is no love lost for Wilson. He’s done here.

Not saying you're wrong, but what you described is as big a problem for the rest of the roster (and Douglas/Saleh) as it is for Wilson. You have a highly drafted 2nd year player coming in with no training camp, and the locker room throws him under the bus, publicly, repeatedly? There is a very fine line between a confident player with swagger and a diva with an attitude that they should be running the team. The Jets locker room has too many divas, and those kinds of players tend to drag a team down.

 

[bernmeister]

You can’t hide the QB. It doesn’t matter how good your OL is. The league changed dramatically since we did this with Sanchez.

especially in the AFC. There is no way you’re going anywhere with a great OL and some replacement QB. It’s just not happening

1. We are not going anywhere w/ANY qb, no matter how good/great, if the OL sucks ass.
Forget Wilson. Competent White, Flacco, got laid out b'c our OL is not enuf.
2. OL improvement helps w/all QBs.

3. Rodgers could easily be Favre II.
I loved Marcel Dionne but was mistake for NYR to take on so late in his career w/so little in the tank.

My vote is no.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Not saying you're wrong, but what you described is as big a problem for the rest of the roster (and Douglas/Saleh) as it is for Wilson. You have a highly drafted 2nd year player coming in with no training camp, and the locker room throws him under the bus, publicly, repeatedly? There is a very fine line between a confident player with swagger and a diva with an attitude that they should be running the team. The Jets locker room has too many divas, and those kinds of players tend to drag a team down.

An entire roster isn’t wrong. Everyone is fed up. Up and down. It’s one thing when it’s one or two guys speaking out. But this entire team had enough. They’re grown men trying to win and get their next contract and this kid doesn’t know the playbook.

He didn’t understand the offense. Which had already been dumbed down after his rookie season. He throws to the wrong receivers.

Read the quotes in the stories after the season. Even some of the beat writers said how bad he looked in practices but they mostly chalked it up to the Jets trying new stuff. But he was just that bad.

 

[smoneil]

An entire roster isn’t wrong. Everyone is fed up. Up and down. It’s one thing when it’s one or two guys speaking out. But this entire team had enough. They’re grown men trying to win and get their next contract and this kid doesn’t know the playbook.

He didn’t understand the offense. Which had already been dumbed down after his rookie season. He throws to the wrong receivers.

Read the quotes in the stories after the season. Even some of the beat writers said how bad he looked in practices but they mostly chalked it up to the Jets trying new stuff. But he was just that bad.

Like I said--not saying you were wrong. But a well-managed team doesn't let the rest of the roster go all Lord of the Flies on a recent #2 pick, and a well-built roster will try to pick up a kid going the wrong way rather than rub salt in it. The team is poorly managed. Has been for years. A poorly managed team will end up following the biggest (often toxic) personalities rather than the guys who know how to win.

Regardless, Wilson should have been sitting in year one and two, rather than three and four.

 

[RangerBlues]

Panthers all in on a QB Let the Stroud Young debate begin

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think the Jets needed patience with Wilson, and they poorly gauged his maturity to learn under fire and handle the resulting pressure. The physical tools are there IMO. The problem is the Jets can’t wait at this stage as the rest of the team looks fairly ready to compete. They could put him on the back burner and make him a backup to a stop-gap like Rodgers, but when Rodgers is done Wilson will be 25-26 and any rookie contract advantage will be gone.

Then they should trade him if possible. Get at least a decent pick back if they are done with him.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I mean Wilson is awful, if you can't see that I don't know what to say. Josh Johnson of all people came in and put up stats that Wilson can't match. The bigger thing is the team is ready to play competitive football and maybe the playoffs. Wilson isn't ready for the XFL. They have to give up on him.

And again most QBs fail. Saying they drafted #3 and #2 and have nothing to show for it isn't some insane thing. Darnold had no talent around him and got ruined, he also prolly wasn't a top tier QB. Wilson has the talent and just plain sucks

You are missing the point. Wilson was very bad last season but that is not the point. You don't just let the #2 pick go to total waste. If you aren't going to use him while he is cheap than get something back for him in a trade.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

You are missing the point. Wilson was very bad last season but that is not the point. You don't just let the #2 pick go to total waste. If you aren't going to use him while he is cheap than get something back for him in a trade.

I think we're both just yelling at the clouds at this point, but I don't think you can trade Wilson. His contract is fully guaranteed. Not too many teams are gonna pony up for that. The Jets best option is too hope Rodgers can take him under his wing and turn him into anything, even if it's a trade piece.

No one wants the #2 pick to be a total waste, but when it's the worst QB to ever play in the NFL what are you supposed to do with it?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think we're both just yelling at the clouds at this point, but I don't think you can trade Wilson. His contract is fully guaranteed. Not too many teams are gonna pony up for that. The Jets best option is too hope Rodgers can take him under his wing and turn him into anything, even if it's a trade piece.

No one wants the #2 pick to be a total waste, but when it's the worst QB to ever play in the NFL what are you supposed to do with it?

LOL not the worst ever. I have seen guys that are way worse in the past. I think Zach can be traded because he is, cheap and has an arm. Always a team willing to take a chance on that only 2 years in to a career. He has the physical skills to play in this league but is desperate for a great qb coach to fix his footwork and decision making.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I think Zach has 3rd or 4th round value. I am not sure why he'd have NO value unless he is truly that toxic behind the scenes.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

LOL not the worst ever. I have seen guys that are way worse in the past. I think Zach can be traded because he is, cheap and has an arm. Always a team willing to take a chance on that only 2 years in to a career. He has the physical skills to play in this league but is desperate for a great qb coach to fix his footwork and decision making.

Maybe a little hyperbole on my part but he is trending towards Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith territory. Again, how many teams want a fully guaranteed #2 pick contract who is a full blown, 2-3 year project? It's not just footwork or decision making. He legit does not understand an NFL playbook. I'm not offering anything higher than a 5th or 6th for that. If your JD you might as well keep him at that price.

We can agree to disagree, hopefully I'm wrong on Wilson. It's in the Jets best interest for me to be wrong

 

[NickyFotiu]

Maybe a little hyperbole on my part but he is trending towards Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith territory. Again, how many teams want a fully guaranteed #2 pick contract who is a full blown, 2-3 year project? It's not just footwork or decision making. He legit does not understand an NFL playbook. I'm not offering anything higher than a 5th or 6th for that. If your JD you might as well keep him at that price.

We can agree to disagree, hopefully I'm wrong on Wilson. It's in the Jets best interest for me to be wrong

There really isnt anything to disagree with except if he is worth a 3rd round or 5th round. Even totaled cars have some value. Even Ryan Leaf was picked up by Dallas. Zach's numbers are much better than those guys. I'm a Giants fan so it doesn't matter to me but if my team did not have a QB I'd risk a 4th round pick on him. You take a flyer. If you have to cut him in 2024 its a $11 mill cap when the cap is going up large in 24.

 

[Baby Duck Homme]

Ramsey!

 

[NickyFotiu]

If the Jets don't get Rodgers on his big money deal maybe they should give Carson Wentz a cheap non guranteed 1 year deal. I know he has his detractors but would he have been an improvement over the Jets QB in 2022? No downside to a cheap one year deal if he would take it.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I know he's a douche but Rodgers is one of my favorite QBs in the league, if not my favorite. Would suck seeing him with the Jets. Better than an NFC East team I guess. Which begs the question can Washington fit him under the cap?

 

[JimmyG89]

Carr and Garappolo are gone. Even Mike White signed with the Dolphins.

Rodgers better be coming to the Jets, otherwise, you're back to square one and behind the 8 ball.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

It’s okay we can always bring back Flacco!