Value of: Flyers trading up

[sansabri]

What is this 'franchise potential' thing you talk about? Why couldn't Frost have it?

He could become one. Odds are much more favorable at the 2-4 spot, though.

 

[1865]

He could become one. Odds are much more favorable at the 2-4 spot, though.

Usually, but people improve don’t they? Giroux was in the 20s and became one of the best of his generation. Benn was outside the first and look at what he did.

Frost has had a D+1 season that would see him shoot up a lot of the redraft rankings.

 

[sansabri]

Usually, but people improve don’t they? Giroux was in the 20s and became one of the best of his generation. Benn was outside the first and look at what he did.

Frost has had a D+1 season that would see him shoot up a lot of the redraft rankings.

Yeah. Benn was a 5th round pick. Aho was a 2nd round pick and he is a franchise player now.

Odds are still in our favor to draft a franchise player at the 2-4 spot rather than trading it for Frost. This isn't meant to diminish what Frost is doing.

 

[leeroggy]

The flyers have 2 picks in the first round, a packed prospect pool, and could use an elite scoring winger. I love Simmonds but don’t see him as a part of our future anymore. How far could this package move them up and would there be any teams interested?

Stl 1st
Phi 1st
Simmonds

Prospects could be added as sweeteners although I personally would be reluctant to trade Myers, Hart, Frost, and anybody on the roster not named Hagg.

Let's play what-if here. The Isles defy all odds and end up with #1 and #2. Dahlin is in the pocket at #1.

Okay, now let's say you are at #15 and #17, with STL not moving up after missing the playoffs.

#15 and #17 won't get you #2 alone and I doubt the Isles would have interest in Simmonds if they are rebuilding OR if JT re-signs, unless you are willing to take back a salary you could easily buy out, like Clutterbuck ($3.5 for 4 more years). Simmonds only has one year left and the Isles are more likely to want young, cost control. You're going to have to get more creative.

How about:

Isles trade:

#2 overall
Clutterbuck
Ho-Sang

for

#15
#17
Simmonds
Sanheim

You have a lot of good D prospects and want that one home run winger like Svechnikov or Zadina or even Tkaczuk if that is what you prefer. You get an enigma who clearly can play offense in the NHL but is stunted by our inept player development thinking. We swap wings and you can buy out Clutterbuck or bury him if you want. Heck, he might actually regain his swagger with you.

We get another solid young defender who might well get blocked from being able to play in your starting 6 for awhile and let's us use 15 and 17 to replenish the offense.

If the wing swap is not tempting to get the other pieces you then have to go like this:

#2 overall
Ho-Sang

#15
#17
Sanheim
3rd round pick

I tend to view Ho-Sang and Sanheim in a similar fashion. Both have shown they can play in the NHL but both might need to be elsewhere to fully flourish.

 

[Starat327]

Let's play what-if here. The Isles defy all odds and end up with #1 and #2. Dahlin is in the pocket at #1.

Okay, now let's say you are at #15 and #17, with STL not moving up after missing the playoffs.

#15 and #17 won't get you #2 alone and I doubt the Isles would have interest in Simmonds if they are rebuilding OR if JT re-signs, unless you are willing to take back a salary you could easily buy out, like Clutterbuck ($3.5 for 4 more years). Simmonds only has one year left and the Isles are more likely to want young, cost control. You're going to have to get more creative.

How about:

Isles trade:

#2 overall
Clutterbuck
Ho-Sang

for

#15
#17
Simmonds
Sanheim

You have a lot of good D prospects and want that one home run winger like Svechnikov or Zadina or even Tkaczuk if that is what you prefer. You get an enigma who clearly can play offense in the NHL but is stunted by our inept player development thinking. We swap wings and you can buy out Clutterbuck or bury him if you want. Heck, he might actually regain his swagger with you.

We get another solid young defender who might well get blocked from being able to play in your starting 6 for awhile and let's us use 15 and 17 to replenish the offense.

If the wing swap is not tempting to get the other pieces you then have to go like this:

#2 overall
Ho-Sang

#15
#17
Sanheim
3rd round pick

I tend to view Ho-Sang and Sanheim in a similar fashion. Both have shown they can play in the NHL but both might need to be elsewhere to fully flourish.

The Flyers cant move D prospects while people like Manning and MacDonald are still in the line up. Getting #2 would be great, but we just cant afford to trade away defense until its fixed.

 

[leeroggy]

The Flyers cant move D prospects while people like Manning and MacDonald are still in the line up. Getting #2 would be great, but we just cant afford to trade away defense until its fixed.

Then why not pick Boqvist at #2? Or take #2, trade back a few picks with a team like Montreal or Detroit and take a Dobson or Bouchard? If Sanheim can't beat out Manning or MacDonald why are you so high on him?

 

[Starat327]

Then why not pick Boqvist at #2? Or take #2, trade back a few picks with a team like Montreal or Detroit and take a Dobson or Bouchard? If Sanheim can't beat out Manning or MacDonald why are you so high on him?

He can. Our coach is just an idiot and loves playing 'grit' and 'veteran' guys over him.

 

[leeroggy]

He can. Our coach is just an idiot and loves playing 'grit' and 'veteran' guys over him.

Funny, sounds like Isles fns and Flyers fans are pretty similar

 

[Starat327]

Funny, sounds like Isles fns and Flyers fans are pretty similar

The two could compete for worst coaches in the league and it may be a dead heat. He also routinely likes to play guys like Lehtera against Barzal - thus your game winning goal the other night.

 

[leeroggy]

The two could compete for worst coaches in the league and it may be a dead heat. He also routinely likes to play guys like Lehtera against Barzal - thus your game winning goal the other night.

Take what I came up with and see if you can come up with something you could be comfortable with for #2. If we get #1 and #2 I just don't see us keeping #2 so see what might make sense.

 

[Starat327]

Take what I came up with and see if you can come up with something you could be comfortable with for #2. If we get #1 and #2 I just don't see us keeping #2 so see what might make sense.

We don't really have much in the way of 'expendable' pieces outside of Simmonds. Maybe we trade Simmonds elsewhere for a third first - likely in the 20s, and send that instead?

Three firsts for #2 seems steep though, especially given the Flyers general success in picking well in the late rounds (Frost, Konecny, Giroux, Gagne, Richards, and Justin williams were all like 20 or later, i think). At the end of the day, I'm not sure i personally would be comfortable paying the price it would take to land #2, and would much prefer to roll the dice on the players we get with the mid 1sts.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Then why not pick Boqvist at #2? Or take #2, trade back a few picks with a team like Montreal or Detroit and take a Dobson or Bouchard? If Sanheim can't beat out Manning or MacDonald why are you so high on him?

You high on Jullsen? Cause you went out and added 5 great dmen in Alzner, Schlemko, Jerabek, Davidson, Morrow and played em all while Jullsen went to AHL. Its called development. Wont mention you even added Streit. Overused Mete with Weber to boot.

 

[Starat327]

You high on Jullsen? Cause you went out and added 5 great dmen in Alzner, Schlemko, Jerabek, Davidson, Morrow and played em all while Jullsen went to AHL. Its called development. Wont mention you even added Streit. Overused Mete with Weber to boot.

Its not even development. Its just Hakstol being a comically bad coach. The fact that it took this long for Sanheim to keep a regular line up spot is the eighth wonder of the world. or 9th, whatever number theyre up to these days.

 

[Sasso09]

what makes Wahlstrom overrated?

I'd say the fact that you think he's worth Simmonds and two 1st RD picks is a good start.

 

[leeroggy]

You high on Jullsen? Cause you went out and added 5 great dmen in Alzner, Schlemko, Jerabek, Davidson, Morrow and played em all while Jullsen went to AHL. Its called development. Wont mention you even added Streit. Overused Mete with Weber to boot.

Not really sure where you are going with this. We're discussing Philadelphia, not Montreal. And Sanheim is already 22 years old. His development is not the issue, the organization is what we are discussing.

 

[Dan Kelly]

I'd say the fact that you think he's worth Simmonds and two 1st RD picks is a good start.

But Svechnikov and Zadina are?

 

[MSSLYNX]

Then why not pick Boqvist at #2? Or take #2, trade back a few picks with a team like Montreal or Detroit and take a Dobson or Bouchard? If Sanheim can't beat out Manning or MacDonald why are you so high on him?

Thats the part. Mtl was only another example. The "cant beat out" stuff is wrong. Most coaches wont play too many young dmen.

 

[KrisBeKreame]

As long as the Islanders are assured of one of Dahlin, Boquist, Dobson, or Bouchard. I would be willing to trade down with our other pick for the Flyers 2 firsts. With them I would look to to Wilde and Kupari/Hayton/Bokke.

 

[skyo]

Maybe if you deal Simmonds for a 1st, then move 3 1st rounders to move up into the top 5 maybe that'll fly.

 

[phlocky]

Take what I came up with and see if you can come up with something you could be comfortable with for #2. If we get #1 and #2 I just don't see us keeping #2 so see what might make sense.

For the Flyers to move up to #2 in this scenario 3 of the following assets would have to be on the table: Sanheim, Frost, Myers and both of our firsts, and any second we have. If you want Sanheim then you can probably expect just one first and a second to be added to him. Frost and Myers would probably include the lower of our firsts. If the Sabres wanted one of TK or Lindblom then only one other asset would be added. Those scenarios are the only way that it might make sense for the Sabres but then the Flyers have to ask themselves if it makes sense for us to use that many assets to acquire one higher end (potentially) assets.

Me personally, while it would be nice to get an elite level talent at #2 or #3, I'd rather just use 2 assets to move up and take Tkachuk (sp???). While he may not be an elite level talent, I think he'd bring a style of play that is missing from any other prospect we have in our system (a Simmonds replacement type player). Trade Simmonds for a first plus good prospect, then trade to of the firsts and a "B" level prospect to move up and take Tkuchuk. That's how I'd look to build the team coming into this years draft.

 

[DJN21]

If Simmonds had even one more year on his deal this thread could be drastically different...

As a Sabres fan if we swing and miss on getting Dahlin a combination of Simmonds (further extended), 2 firsts, Sanheim, Hagg, Myers etc would be very intriguing to think about...

But Buffalo isn't a Simmonds away from competing to make it worthwhile. He'd pull a Kane pot 30 goals next to Eichel and leave or get traded for subpar value and then you have a mystery bag of other pieces from the pool listed above.

What;s more enviable is that Philly is a playoff caliber team now and still have the ability to trade away pieces like that. Good job on Hextall...

 

[Devonator]

Let's play what-if here. The Isles defy all odds and end up with #1 and #2. Dahlin is in the pocket at #1.

Okay, now let's say you are at #15 and #17, with STL not moving up after missing the playoffs.

#15 and #17 won't get you #2 alone and I doubt the Isles would have interest in Simmonds if they are rebuilding OR if JT re-signs, unless you are willing to take back a salary you could easily buy out, like Clutterbuck ($3.5 for 4 more years). Simmonds only has one year left and the Isles are more likely to want young, cost control. You're going to have to get more creative.

How about:

Isles trade:

#2 overall
Clutterbuck
Ho-Sang

for

#15
#17
Simmonds
Sanheim

You have a lot of good D prospects and want that one home run winger like Svechnikov or Zadina or even Tkaczuk if that is what you prefer. You get an enigma who clearly can play offense in the NHL but is stunted by our inept player development thinking. We swap wings and you can buy out Clutterbuck or bury him if you want. Heck, he might actually regain his swagger with you.

We get another solid young defender who might well get blocked from being able to play in your starting 6 for awhile and let's us use 15 and 17 to replenish the offense.

If the wing swap is not tempting to get the other pieces you then have to go like this:

#2 overall
Ho-Sang

#15
#17
Sanheim
3rd round pick

I tend to view Ho-Sang and Sanheim in a similar fashion. Both have shown they can play in the NHL but both might need to be elsewhere to fully flourish.

As a flyer fan, I find your proposal not bad.....it helps both teams.....

 

[Curufinwe]

Sanheim isn't for sale.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I don't want any trade that involves a mucker and grinder to Philly. Hakstol shouldn't be allowed to have the option!

 

[ThatSaid]

Depending on how the lottery shakes out, Chicago probably trades down for a package that includes those firsts and Simmonds. Simmonds is exactly the kind of player we need right now. Do we need other things more? Probably. Might be more inclined to say yes if you drop one of those picks and throw in a D-man who fits with us. As much as I love Simmonds, defense is the more pressing issue in Chi-town.