Proposal: Flyers - Ducks

[All Mighty]

This trade only makes the Ducks weaker, and tossing Thrun in makes no sense.

I would like to start a tangent and see if Flyer fans would be interested in Comtois+ for Konecny. The degree of the "+" is obviously negotiable.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Im not sure where your logic comes from but a 2019 4th round pick isn’t close in value to a late 2023 1st round pick.

Using Thrun as a logic to determine upcoming draft value shouldn’t matter anyway because a player’s value changes after they are drafted.

JVR was a 2nd overall pick but he surely doesn’t retain a 2nd overall status years later, same goes with the two Flyer prospects even though they were both 1st round picks doesn’t mean they retain 1st round value.

It can be argued that Zellweger may have a higher floor then Thrun and may even be in the NHL before Thrun despite being drafted two years later than Thrun, I wouldn’t discredit Hinds either as he has played well in the Q and could make an impact someday for Anaheim although he is further away then Zellweger and Thrun.

As you’ve stated LaCombe is a wild card, his development started off nicely but has seemed to stall lately, hopefully Jackson can turn the corner and start trajecting upwards again.

If you want to place value for draft postion then that’s your prerogative, it would be Fowler (1st high) and Thrun (4th mid)
For JVR (1st high), Rubtsov (1st late), O’Brien (1st mid) and a 2023 1st that could land anywhere from 8th overall to 32nd overall, my money would be somewhere above 24th ovr.

All I stated was that Thrun is closer in value to a late 1st than he is to those prospects. That has absolutely nothing to do with their draft position and is merely a statement of value. Based on the way they have performed since their draft year and how they project moving forward, I would equate Thrun's value at roughly a late 1st (and that's right where he probably should have went in his draft). There's a reasonable argument to be made that he carries that kind of value based on how he's performed compared to his peers and how he projects moving forward. I don't care where Rubstov or O'Brien were picked, neither is worth more than a mid round pick to anyone today. O'Brien can't manage to out produce Thrun at the NCAA level, despite being older and a forward...and Thrun really isn't even known for his offense. There's absolutely no comparison - O'Brien's value plummeted and may have rebounded some but Thrun's trajectory has been pretty much straight north and he's become the better prospect by a landslide.

 

[captainpaxil]

I really don't see the point in going after a lhD while dealing from two center prospects. Rhd and c are the flyers areas of need

 

[ArchAngel55]

He absolutely is a top pair D.

And Sanheim and Provorov are not really comparable either. Sanheim carries his partners and elevates their play, Provorov needs to be carried or he has shit seasons.

Regardless, again, the point is that Sanheim isn’t the problem on any of these pairs. His individual play is very strong, which is the only thing he can control.

I'll get his all star jersey ordered now.

 

[Striiker]

I'll get his all star jersey ordered now.

Top pair D = all star?

Who said that?

 

[ArchAngel55]

Top pair D = all star?

Who said that?

They way you're acting. Like he nails himself to the cross every time he puts on his skates.

 

[Striiker]

They way you're acting. Like he nails himself to the cross every time he puts on his skates.

Seems like you just have an irrational bias against Sanheim and are getting frustrated that someone is saying he’s actually good, so now you’re overreacting and exaggerating.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I really don't see the point in going after a lhD while dealing from two center prospects. Rhd and c are the flyers areas of need

Fowler can play as RD and has done so before with the Ducks.

The Ducks faithful aren’t down with this proposal and would probably be hard pressed to ever trade Cam unless an overwhelming offer was put forth, which is understandable since Cam Fowler is an all-around defenseman that can play both LD and RD.

Fowler can also PK and PP, so his importance to the Ducks roster makes Cam a valuable player to the Ducks defense.

Flyers do desperately need to make a move for a RD but it might cost Chuck Fletcher if he has to dip into the free agent pool at RD.

The dumb move that Fletcher will probably most likely make is written on the wall, resigning Ristolainen to a long term contract extension.

I’m expecting a new 7 year deal in a range that Ristolainen isn’t worth, it’ll be another band-aid on a broken leg type of move for the Flyers.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

there's no logical reason for Anaheim to make this trade. the op can word vomit as much as they want to try and justify it, but it still doesn't make sense.

Sorry bout that, I’ll clean it up...

 

[JUSTGIROUXIT]

Well at least you correctly said that you’ve never seen it, not that it never happens. After all, it constantly happens, whether you see it or not.

Sanheim carries every D partner he’s with. There’s a reason why all of them have better stats with Sanheim than without him. Not to mention Sanheim has been the Flyers best defensemen for the majority of the last 4 years. Significantly better than Provorov every single year since 2018-2019.

This is nonsense. What is this based on, cherry picking advanced stats? Embarrassing take.

In terms of the OP's proposal - It's awful for Anaheim. Nobody is touching JVR's contract and giving up value in return. Fowler has been underrated for some time and is having a fantastic year for the Ducks. The prospects included from the Flyers side don't move the needle here at all. Rubtsov has little to no value. I also have serious doubts that O'Brien ever cracks an NHL lineup.

 

[Striiker]

This is nonsense. What is this based on, cherry picking advanced stats? Embarrassing take.

It’s only nonsense to you because it’s going over your head.

Whether you understand a concept or not is not the measure of its value.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Philadelphia Acquires: LD Cam Fowler and prospect LD Henry Thrun


Anaheim Acquires: LW James van Riemsdyk, prospects C German Rubtsov and C Jay O’Brien with a 1st round pick in 2023 (Top 7 protected)

Basically it’s Fowler to Philly for 1st RD pick and long term cap space to Anaheim, also clears up the logjam that’s mounting at LD in Anaheim.

Merry Christmas to all.

Edit: Wanted to add that this proposal would be an offseason move.

When JVR was gone from Toronto I thought I would never have to see a JVR to Anaheim thread again DAMN IT was I wrong.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

When JVR was gone from Toronto I thought I would never have to see a JVR to Anaheim thread again DAMN IT was I wrong.

My apologies, those Toronto fans can be relentless.

I don’t know if the Ducks fans understand JVR’s contract where it’s at now but he only has 1 season left on his deal after this season.

I guess 1st round picks and long term cap space don’t hold any value anymore.

Anaheim is going to be adding tons of salary to their books within the next season or two with many contracts coming up (see CF)and I’m not sure if they understand the business or economic side of the teams front offices.

If Anaheim keeps the roster as is, they won’t be able to afford all their players even with the current cap space they hold. Unless they plan on trading or buying out Henrique.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

My apologies, those Toronto fans can be relentless.

I don’t know if the Ducks fans understand JVR’s contract where it’s at now but he only has 1 season left on his deal after this season.

I guess 1st round picks and long term cap space don’t hold any value anymore.

Anaheim is going to be adding tons of salary to their books within the next season or two with many contracts coming up (see CF)and I’m not sure if they understand the business or economic side of the teams front offices.

If Anaheim keeps the roster as is, they won’t be able to afford all their players even with the current cap space they hold. Unless they plan on trading or buying out Henrique.

I imagine when those contracts come we’ll be moving on from Henrique /silf and shatt

I’m guessing this is a situation where you don’t understand the teams cap situation/prospect pool

 

[Maurice of Orange]

I imagine when those contracts come we’ll be moving on from Henrique /silf and shatt

I’m guessing this is a situation where you don’t understand the teams cap situation/prospect pool

When players Zegres’ Terry and Drysdale hit RFA and come up for new deals they won’t be cheap especially if Zegres and Terry keep scoring at the pace they are on.

Lindhlom also needs a new deal (UFA), I can’t see him taking a discount this time either, Manson also needs a new deal UFA, see where we are going yet...

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

When players Zegres’ Terry and Drysdale hit RFA and come up for new deals they won’t be cheap especially if Zegres and Terry keep scoring at the pace they are on.

Lindhlom also needs a new deal (UFA), I can’t see him taking a discount this time either, Manson also needs a new deal UFA, see where we are going yet...

Yea no where fast… you don’t really know what your talking about

 

[StarDucks]

When players Zegres’ Terry and Drysdale hit RFA and come up for new deals they won’t be cheap especially if Zegres and Terry keep scoring at the pace they are on.

Lindhlom also needs a new deal (UFA), I can’t see him taking a discount this time either, Manson also needs a new deal UFA, see where we are going yet...

go to cap friendly and run the numbers yourself. The ducks could sign all the UFA’s (no discounts required) and still quite comfortably have enough the year after for Terry, Z, etc. and then the year after that Henrique and silverberg contracts are up

pretty much the only scenario that makes things interesting is if Dysdale turns into a top paring stud next year.

also cap situation aside, the ducks have pretty much zero need for JVR. We already have too many forwards, and we have Tracy, Perrault,and Mctavish who will be trying to crack the lineup next year. Comtios and Jones as well, considering they’ve both basically been out the entire year.

We do not need another winger unless it’s a long term stud for Zegras.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Yea no where fast… you don’t really know what your talking about

You’re a ducks fan it’ll unfold within the next two years. Until then....

 

[Maurice of Orange]

go to cap friendly and run the numbers yourself. The ducks could sign all the UFA’s (no discounts required) and still quite comfortably have enough the year after for Terry, Z, etc. and then the year after that Henrique and silverberg contracts are up

pretty much the only scenario that makes things interesting is if Dysdale turns into a top paring stud next year.

also cap situation aside, the ducks have pretty much zero need for JVR. We already have too many forwards, and we have Tracy, Perrault,and Mctavish who will be trying to crack the lineup next year. Comtios and Jones as well, considering they’ve both basically been out the entire year.

We do not need another winger unless it’s a long term stud for Zegras.

If the ducks do get pressed to the cap, I could see GM Jeff Solomon buying out the last year of Henrique’s deal.

Drysdale looks more comfortable and also looks well on his way to becoming a stud 1st pairing defenseman, also he is RD which brings a little more value.

Was messing with Ducks lineup, for next season. I took out Getz, Carrick and Henrique.
Would this be close, if you have a lineup, I would read.

Line 1 LW Milano C Zegras RW Terry
Line 2 LW Comtois C McTavish RW Rakell
Line 3 LW Steel C Lundestrom RW Silfverberg
Line 4 LW Deslauriers C Groulx RW Grant

1st Pair LD Lindholm RD Drysdale
2nd Pair LD Fowler RD Manson
3rd Pair LD Benoit RD Shattenkirk

Goalies:
Starter: Gibson
Backup: Stolarz

Scratches:
LW Jones
LD Mahura
LD Larsson

Took out of roster:
C Getzlaf < UFA might retire
C S. Carrick < UFA
LW Henrique < buyout

 

[Maurice of Orange]

If a team we’re trying to acquire Cam Fowler In the off-season want would Anaheim believe it would realistically take to acquire Fowler if he were available.

 

[dracom]

When players Zegres’ Terry and Drysdale hit RFA and come up for new deals they won’t be cheap especially if Zegres and Terry keep scoring at the pace they are on.

Lindhlom also needs a new deal (UFA), I can’t see him taking a discount this time either, Manson also needs a new deal UFA, see where we are going yet...

You’re a ducks fan it’ll unfold within the next two years. Until then....

it's always great when fans of other teams act like they know more about another fans team lol. then when we say no to their offers they start getting passive aggressive like this.

Zegras and Terry are the only one's who may be getting a large deal when their ELC is up, or they take a bridge and bank on themselves to do even better. If we still had Bob we would almost certainly go the bridge deal. but with this new GM, I don't think many of us really know what he plans on doing. We have over 12mil in cap space now and I believe thats even with Kesler's contract being include which FINALLY ends after this year (someone can correct me if im wrong, i hate how LTIR affects the cap). Lindholm isn't going to be making THAT much more than what's currently making. Manson doesnt' deserve to get what he's currently make right now and should just be moved. Shattenkirk's contract ends just in time for Zegra's, Terry's Dyrsdale's contracts are up as well. Rakell also hasn't earned a new contract worth more than his current contract. Grant will be gone, Deslaurier will be gone. Getz may retire before then. And if things are tight, we can buyout either Silf's or Rico's contract since it'll be the last year on their deal.

I don't know why you're trying to freak out Anaheim fans about a cap problem that doesn't exist; just so you can get Fowler for a bunch of nothing pieces that we don't need.

 

[StarDucks]

If a team we’re trying to acquire Cam Fowler In the off-season want would Anaheim believe it would realistically take to acquire Fowler if he were available.

Straight up I don’t think Fowler would be available. Unless Anaheim goes back into full rebuild mode. What would it take otherwise? Another Fowler.

that lineup you posted seems ok. Although I expect Henrique will be around at least all of next year, and I’d be pretty surprised if Getzlaf wasn’t back.

so something closer to

Henrique Getzlaf terry
Milano zegras rakell
X Lundestrom silfverberg
X X X

with “X” being unknown but with the following all fighting for spots in no particular order:
Steel
Carrick
Jones
Comtios
Tracey
Perrault
Mctavish
Desesardins

As you can see, it’s pretty crowded upfront.

but again, seriously, go run the numbers yourself in cap friendly. At least then you have a foundation for this conversation

 

[Maurice of Orange]

it's always great when fans of other teams act like they know more about another fans team lol. then when we say no to their offers they start getting passive aggressive like this.

Zegras and Terry are the only one's who may be getting a large deal when their ELC is up, or they take a bridge and bank on themselves to do even better. If we still had Bob we would almost certainly go the bridge deal. but with this new GM, I don't think many of us really know what he plans on doing. We have over 12mil in cap space now and I believe thats even with Kesler's contract being include which FINALLY ends after this year (someone can correct me if im wrong, i hate how LTIR affects the cap). Lindholm isn't going to be making THAT much more than what's currently making. Manson doesnt' deserve to get what he's currently make right now and should just be moved. Shattenkirk's contract ends just in time for Zegra's, Terry's Dyrsdale's contracts are up as well. Rakell also hasn't earned a new contract worth more than his current contract. Grant will be gone, Deslaurier will be gone. Getz may retire before then. And if things are tight, we can buyout either Silf's or Rico's contract since it'll be the last year on their deal.

I don't know why you're trying to freak out Anaheim fans about a cap problem that doesn't exist; just so you can get Fowler for a bunch of nothing pieces that we don't need.

I never said that I knew more about the Ducks organization as a whole and I was just discussing and learning more about the Ducks roster from Ducks fans. Just because I’m a fan of the Flyers doesn’t mean I’m not a fan of the NHL, wasn’t trying to be aggressive just having friendly discussions.

I do watch some Ducks games and follow their roster, lineup, depth charts ect ect. I might not be as spot on with information as a ducks fan but I’m knowledgeable of the Ducks roster and the type of players that they have on their roster and in their organization.

Solomon is a different GM from what Ducks fans may be used to but none of us know in which direction he will go when it comes to maintaining a contending Ducks team, I believe Kesler’s contract is included in the Ducks current cap since Kesler on only on regular IR and not on LTIR but like you I’m not 100% sure.

Lindholm’s deal will probably end up dictating in which Direction Anaheim will go when resigning everyone else but at the end of this season Lindholm will be up for a new deal and may even go to the market to find out his worth.

Lindholm is the Ducks best defenseman along with Fowler so if Hampus does make it to market Anaheim might end up paying a high salary to keep him, Lindholm may be above the 8mil range in his next deal.

Manson gets raged on but Manson is RD and a part of the 2nd pairing and does play an important defensive role with the Ducks, it remains to be seen if Solomon resigns Manson but I don’t see him being traded in the middle of being a contender during the season which leads him to UFA negotiations just like Lindholm.

Shattenkirk actually has found a nice place on the Ducks 3rd RD and may be a candidate for a new deal but Shatty isn’t getting the same deal he is on now, may have to lower his salary bar if he wants to stick around, but by that time Zellweger or Ian Moore might be ready to challenge for a 3RD spot (Zell is LD but can RD too).

Rakell’s situation could end up being a wild card so I won’t speculate as to Rakell’s situation and I would refer to ducks fans in that regard. Grant is a dime a dozen and will be gone I agree with you there.

Deslauriers could come cheap with a slight raise and brings different intangibles that coaches appreciate from a 4th liner. I wouldn’t count Deslauriers out, especially since it’s been reported that the ask on him was higher then excepted for a player of his ilk.

If Getzlaf retires it would save cap and that might be the direction he chooses, Silfverberg is a veteran and part of the leadership group so he is a needed veteran presence.
Vets Getzlaf and Henrique may end up leaving town, so Silvers does have value to the Ducks in a few different aspects.

Henrique could be traded or bought out in the last year of his deal if things get tight with the cap.

Anaheim don’t have a cap problem right now but they might and are probably preparing for it since the many contracts that are expiring are mostly getting raises on their deals.

Later on I’ll be going through their roster and try to estimate what their cap might look like 2 years from now.

JVR may not be what the Ducks need but only has 1 more year on his deal when a lot of the core Ducks contracts expire and the young Ducks defensive prospects might be ready to challenge for a spot on the Ducks defense. JVR’s 7mil off books, Fowler 6.5mil replaced with a younger ELC contract and so on, I might be looking to far ahead but it’s a discussion.

I do understand that this is a no deal, but wouldn’t mind discussing with Ducks fans Fowler and their roster in a friendly non-aggressive manner.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I never said that I knew more about the Ducks organization as a whole and I was just discussing and learning more about the Ducks roster from Ducks fans. Just because I’m a fan of the Flyers doesn’t mean I’m not a fan of the NHL, wasn’t trying to be aggressive just having friendly discussions.

I do watch some Ducks games and follow their roster, lineup, depth charts ect ect. I might not be as spot on with information as a ducks fan but I’m knowledgeable of the Ducks roster and the type of players that they have on their roster and in their organization.

Solomon is a different GM from what Ducks fans may be used to but none of us know in which direction he will go when it comes to maintaining a contending Ducks team, I believe Kesler’s contract is included in the Ducks current cap since Kesler on only on regular IR and not on LTIR but like you I’m not 100% sure.

Lindholm’s deal will probably end up dictating in which Direction Anaheim will go when resigning everyone else but at the end of this season Lindholm will be up for a new deal and may even go to the market to find out his worth.

Lindholm is the Ducks best defenseman along with Fowler so if Hampus does make it to market Anaheim might end up paying a high salary to keep him, Lindholm may be above the 8mil range in his next deal.

Manson gets raged on but Manson is RD and a part of the 2nd pairing and does play an important defensive role with the Ducks, it remains to be seen if Solomon resigns Manson but I don’t see him being traded in the middle of being a contender during the season which leads him to UFA negotiations just like Lindholm.

Shattenkirk actually has found a nice place on the Ducks 3rd RD and may be a candidate for a new deal but Shatty isn’t getting the same deal he is on now, may have to lower his salary bar if he wants to stick around, but by that time Zellweger or Ian Moore might be ready to challenge for a 3RD spot (Zell is LD but can RD too).

Rakell’s situation could end up being a wild card so I won’t speculate as to Rakell’s situation and I would refer to ducks fans in that regard. Grant is a dime a dozen and will be gone I agree with you there.

Deslauriers could come cheap with a slight raise and brings different intangibles that coaches appreciate from a 4th liner. I wouldn’t count Deslauriers out, especially since it’s been reported that the ask on him was higher then excepted for a player of his ilk.

If Getzlaf retires it would save cap and that might be the direction he chooses, Silfverberg is a veteran and part of the leadership group so he is a needed veteran presence.
Vets Getzlaf and Henrique may end up leaving town, so Silvers does have value to the Ducks in a few different aspects.

Henrique could be traded or bought out in the last year of his deal if things get tight with the cap.

Anaheim don’t have a cap problem right now but they might and are probably preparing for it since the many contracts that are expiring are mostly getting raises on their deals.

Later on I’ll be going through their roster and try to estimate what their cap might look like 2 years from now.

JVR may not be what the Ducks need but only has 1 more year on his deal when a lot of the core Ducks contracts expire and the young Ducks defensive prospects might be ready to challenge for a spot on the Ducks defense. JVR’s 7mil off books, Fowler 6.5mil replaced with a younger ELC contract and so on, I might be looking to far ahead but it’s a discussion.

I do understand that this is a no deal, but wouldn’t mind discussing with Ducks fans Fowler and their roster in a friendly non-aggressive manner.

We’ve all discussed this pretty often….

the other issue is if we did trade fowler, doubt we’d trade thrun too. Fowler still has value and can bring back good assets without adding thrun to it

 

[irishsetter13]

I never said that I knew more about the Ducks organization as a whole and I was just discussing and learning more about the Ducks roster from Ducks fans. Just because I’m a fan of the Flyers doesn’t mean I’m not a fan of the NHL, wasn’t trying to be aggressive just having friendly discussions.

I do watch some Ducks games and follow their roster, lineup, depth charts ect ect. I might not be as spot on with information as a ducks fan but I’m knowledgeable of the Ducks roster and the type of players that they have on their roster and in their organization.

Solomon is a different GM from what Ducks fans may be used to but none of us know in which direction he will go when it comes to maintaining a contending Ducks team, I believe Kesler’s contract is included in the Ducks current cap since Kesler on only on regular IR and not on LTIR but like you I’m not 100% sure.

Lindholm’s deal will probably end up dictating in which Direction Anaheim will go when resigning everyone else but at the end of this season Lindholm will be up for a new deal and may even go to the market to find out his worth.

Lindholm is the Ducks best defenseman along with Fowler so if Hampus does make it to market Anaheim might end up paying a high salary to keep him, Lindholm may be above the 8mil range in his next deal.

Manson gets raged on but Manson is RD and a part of the 2nd pairing and does play an important defensive role with the Ducks, it remains to be seen if Solomon resigns Manson but I don’t see him being traded in the middle of being a contender during the season which leads him to UFA negotiations just like Lindholm.

Shattenkirk actually has found a nice place on the Ducks 3rd RD and may be a candidate for a new deal but Shatty isn’t getting the same deal he is on now, may have to lower his salary bar if he wants to stick around, but by that time Zellweger or Ian Moore might be ready to challenge for a 3RD spot (Zell is LD but can RD too).

Rakell’s situation could end up being a wild card so I won’t speculate as to Rakell’s situation and I would refer to ducks fans in that regard. Grant is a dime a dozen and will be gone I agree with you there.

Deslauriers could come cheap with a slight raise and brings different intangibles that coaches appreciate from a 4th liner. I wouldn’t count Deslauriers out, especially since it’s been reported that the ask on him was higher then excepted for a player of his ilk.

If Getzlaf retires it would save cap and that might be the direction he chooses, Silfverberg is a veteran and part of the leadership group so he is a needed veteran presence.
Vets Getzlaf and Henrique may end up leaving town, so Silvers does have value to the Ducks in a few different aspects.

Henrique could be traded or bought out in the last year of his deal if things get tight with the cap.

Anaheim don’t have a cap problem right now but they might and are probably preparing for it since the many contracts that are expiring are mostly getting raises on their deals.

Later on I’ll be going through their roster and try to estimate what their cap might look like 2 years from now.

JVR may not be what the Ducks need but only has 1 more year on his deal when a lot of the core Ducks contracts expire and the young Ducks defensive prospects might be ready to challenge for a spot on the Ducks defense. JVR’s 7mil off books, Fowler 6.5mil replaced with a younger ELC contract and so on, I might be looking to far ahead but it’s a discussion.

I do understand that this is a no deal, but wouldn’t mind discussing with Ducks fans Fowler and their roster in a friendly non-aggressive manner.

Are you expecting every ducks young players to make 10 mil per year? I just plugged some random numbers into cap friendly with the Current Salary Cup and the ducks are still 4 mil under the cap in 2023-2024 season without a 7th defensemen (Zellweger, Thrun, LaCombe or Moore). I think the Ducks will be perfectly fine.

After this season the Henrique and Silfverberg come off of the cap and we have over 15 million to sign McTavish, Perrault and Tracey.

Stop trying to convince the Ducks they are out of Cap Space. They have PLENTY