Flyers 2017 Training Camp Discussion Thread

[Curufinwe]

Voracek should be a good RW for Patrick if he needs someone to get him looks. We already know Simmonds can score and be effective with Giroux or Couturier.

Weal only has one point in 5 games, but I think he's looked dangerous. The Weal-Patrick-Simmonds line hasn't been bad at all, but it shouldn't be set in stone.

 

[Striiker]

Just read through 3 pages of unhappy posts...

Just take a deep breath and relax guys.

Nothing's happened yet so don't get worried yet. If they actually do end up making these awful decisions then we can all freak out together. But until then you're just making yourself upset because of what might happen, which accomplishes nothing.

Look at the bright side, no matter what we'll at the very least see a handful of young guys on the team. Patrick is a lock, two of the D prospects at least, Konecny and Provorovs second year, healthy Ghost, and if you like bad players, a full year of Weal. Id love to see all of the young guys here immediately too, but this is definitely going to be a better team than last year by a large margin. Plus, injuries will happen sooner than later and the potential send-downs will boomerang back up.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

Part of why he's passing so much and isn't shooting is he's not really getting separation to get his shot off, so he's looking for open spaces with his equally good passes. He'll probably find that until he improves his skating, which will come, he's going to have to get more shots in tight and of the dirty variety. Or rely on his linemates -- probably more Weal than Simmonds -- to get him looks. But he could still probably stand to be a little more aggressive with the shots.

Players also adjust to the speed of the NHL in different ways. Right now he's staying strictly in his set lanes and what not, but he'll get more comfortable reading plays at a high level to cut into open space and/or beat defenders away from the puck. At least he's falling back on strong positional play rather than relying heavily on impulsive and erratic reads/reactions, which is a roadblock for many young players making the jump.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

You have some guys playing on their off-wings. Simmonds at LW? Why break up Weal - Patrick - Simmonds?

because i like the idea of having Patrick and Konecny together

 

[Rebels57]

ers have said about Lindblom, it seems to make perfect since to try him at 1LW with G and V. I thought preseason was all about experimenting but it really seems to be about just experimenting with what Hakstol considers his ideal line up. I've been on the soapbox saying Hakstol is a terrible coach for a long time and I still maintain that point of view.

because i like the idea of having Patrick and Konecny together

Simmonds is never going to play LW in the NHL.

I like the idea of Konecny and Patrick together at some point, but there are other ways to accomplish that.

 

[Rebels57]

Just read through 3 pages of unhappy posts...

Just take a deep breath and relax guys.

Nothing's happened yet so don't get worried yet. If they actually do end up making these awful decisions then we can all freak out together. But until then you're just making yourself upset because of what might happen, which accomplishes nothing.

Look at the bright side, no matter what we'll at the very least see a handful of young guys on the team. Patrick is a lock, two of the D prospects at least, Konecny and Provorovs second year, healthy Ghost, and if you like bad players, a full year of Weal. Id love to see all of the young guys here immediately too, but this is definitely going to be a better team than last year by a large margin. Plus, injuries will happen sooner than later and the potential send-downs will boomerang back up.

f*** outta here with this level-headed bullshit

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

Hate to go all deadhead, but when Sanheim and Lindblom get sent down, that's on Hextall. Whatever Hakstol drools into his ear about his favorite little ****ty veterans, it's on Hextall.

It's not the end of the world if Sanheim spends more time in the AHL to polish his game. He's tremendously talented, but he has some very inconsistent positioning, which I can't imagine makes him easy to play with.

People complain when a "privileged" vet does something like fumble the puck or lose 1 on 1 battles more often than a more skilled rookie trying to make the team, and cite that as evidence of favoritism. But it's more complicated than that. A player like Sanheim is still learning to play in a pro system, which means he won't always be in the right place at the right time, or he'll carry the puck into danger without his teammates the adequate means to adjust and cover. Basically, his mistakes may not be as noticeable or major, but they're erratic -- and that has a bigger negative effect on on-ice chemistry/cohesion. He'll work it out over time (and maybe his skill outweighs the negatives right now), but I can definitely understand if he doesn't make the team out camp.

 

[Rebels57]

I've seen enough to feel that Sanheim belongs on the Philadelphia Flyers in 2017-2018. That's my official position.

 

[Origina1Master]

Just read through 3 pages of unhappy posts...

Just take a deep breath and relax guys.

Nothing's happened yet so don't get worried yet. If they actually do end up making these awful decisions then we can all freak out together. But until then you're just making yourself upset because of what might happen, which accomplishes nothing.

Look at the bright side, no matter what we'll at the very least see a handful of young guys on the team. Patrick is a lock, two of the D prospects at least, Konecny and Provorovs second year, healthy Ghost, and if you like bad players, a full year of Weal. Id love to see all of the young guys here immediately too, but this is definitely going to be a better team than last year by a large margin. Plus, injuries will happen sooner than later and the potential send-downs will boomerang back up.

Couldn't agree more. I really don't like a lot of the line up decisions so far this preseason, but I will wait until we start seeing them in real games before I start getting too mad.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm still holding on to a sliver of hope that the neglect of Lindblom is because they feel it is necessary to evaluate other players more than him and already have him penciled in.

 

[Striiker]

**** outta here with this level-headed bull****

Don't worry, I'll lead the hate parade if he does what we fear. But let's save it all for one time.

 

[IronMarshal]

I keep reading this nonsense that you can't have three rookie defensemen (I guess the left off part is "and have a winning team"). Yet, I remember when the Flyers had their 35 game unbeaten streak, they had three rookie defensemen, albeit rookies with a ton of AHL experience, but far less talent that Sanheim, Hagg and Morin. This team is far better with Sanheim in the lineup than MacDonald or Manning. I would also argue that the team is better with Hagg than either of those two, but it is closer. Further, I would argue that Morin brings a much needed dimension that makes the team better than either Manning or MacDonald. To me that is a no brainer, keep the three kids and send one of MacD or Manning to the minors. If you think you are more likely to lose Manning than MacDonald due to their salary differences, you send MacDonald down and dare someone to take tat salary and let Manning ride the press box seat until needed. Any significant injury to a defenseman, or regression by one of the kids, you can easily bring MacDonalad back up. This isn't hard.
Are Manning and MacDonald NHL quality defensemen? Yes, but bottom pairing guys at best, and you can pair any bottom guy with a number one, and be alright, but not as good as pairing the number 1 with a quality guy. So I would send MacDonald down and keep the three kids and see what happens. It's not like you are really going to challenge for the Cup this year anyway.

 

[Flyotes]

Players also adjust to the speed of the NHL in different ways. Right now he's staying strictly in his set lanes and what not, but he'll get more comfortable reading plays at a high level to cut into open space and/or beat defenders away from the puck. At least he's falling back on strong positional play rather than relying heavily on impulsive and erratic reads/reactions, which is a roadblock for many young players making the jump.

Good post. I'll add:

Patrick had some quality chances. Hit the post. Also smart to show he can play D in this league, early on. If you can't, you aren't making the team.
Creating space for passing is easier than creating space for a shot as well. Once he finds another gear I'd wager more goals come. Injuries/Time Off from Hockey has hurt.
I used to be a professional something or other-- and let me tell you -- 2 or 3 days off to visit family would really put me out of the zone for a few hours. Gear up and you'd feel like a space alien until you found the zone again. I can't imagine what 3 months + injuries would do.

 

[Deebs]

Has Provorov taken over as the #1 defenceman yet...what a terrific talent this kid is

 

[Flyotes]

Argument could be made he took it over last year as well. This year he might have competition.. from the rookies, not the vets.

 

[Rebels57]

I keep reading this nonsense that you can't have three rookie defensemen (I guess the left off part is "and have a winning team"). Yet, I remember when the Flyers had their 35 game unbeaten streak, they had three rookie defensemen, albeit rookies with a ton of AHL experience, but far less talent that Sanheim, Hagg and Morin. This team is far better with Sanheim in the lineup than MacDonald or Manning. I would also argue that the team is better with Hagg than either of those two, but it is closer. Further, I would argue that Morin brings a much needed dimension that makes the team better than either Manning or MacDonald. To me that is a no brainer, keep the three kids and send one of MacD or Manning to the minors. If you think you are more likely to lose Manning than MacDonald due to their salary differences, you send MacDonald down and dare someone to take tat salary and let Manning ride the press box seat until needed. Any significant injury to a defenseman, or regression by one of the kids, you can easily bring MacDonalad back up. This isn't hard.
Are Manning and MacDonald NHL quality defensemen? Yes, but bottom pairing guys at best, and you can pair any bottom guy with a number one, and be alright, but not as good as pairing the number 1 with a quality guy. So I would send MacDonald down and keep the three kids and see what happens. It's not like you are really going to challenge for the Cup this year anyway.

The answer your looking for is actually no. I was with you up until this point though.

 

[IronMarshal]

The answer your looking for is actually no. I was with you up until this point though.

When I said quality, I meant they can play in the NHL, not that they were quality players, just that they were good enough to play as a bottom pair on a non playoff team.

 

[Stizzle]

It's not the end of the world if Sanheim spends more time in the AHL to polish his game. He's tremendously talented, but he has some very inconsistent positioning, which I can't imagine makes him easy to play with.

People complain when a "privileged" vet does something like fumble the puck or lose 1 on 1 battles more often than a more skilled rookie trying to make the team, and cite that as evidence of favoritism. But it's more complicated than that. A player like Sanheim is still learning to play in a pro system, which means he won't always be in the right place at the right time, or he'll carry the puck into danger without his teammates the adequate means to adjust and cover. Basically, his mistakes may not be as noticeable or major, but they're erratic -- and that has a bigger negative effect on on-ice chemistry/cohesion. He'll work it out over time (and maybe his skill outweighs the negatives right now), but I can definitely understand if he doesn't make the team out camp.

Reading this post has my head spinning. Like I can't even express properly with words how terrible it is. My mind is numb.

 

[Rebels57]

When I said quality, I meant they can play in the NHL, not that they were quality players, just that they were good enough to play as a bottom pair on a non playoff team.

I'll only agree that they are NHL players because they have played in the NHL. Not based on any actual performance merit lol.

 

[deadhead]

A huge advantage Hakstok has over Berube is that he actually adapts. I mean, it takes a month. But he does it. I'll wait and see what the team does, and what he has them doing this year.

This year we'll actually be able to judge that, the last two years he was shooting blanks, realistically which of the bottom five defensemen (Streit, MDZ, Schultz, Manning, MacDonald) or the bottom seven forwards last year (Read, VdV, PEB, Luby, Cousins, Leier, Gordon). And that makes it difficult to make adjustments since you're shuffling a half dozen forwards and three defensemen around. Now Hakstol has enough talent, and a varied mix of talent, that he can actually make meaningful adjustments.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This year we'll actually be able to judge that, the last two years he was shooting blanks, realistically which of the bottom five defensemen (Streit, MDZ, Schultz, Manning, MacDonald) or the bottom seven forwards last year (Read, VdV, PEB, Luby, Cousins, Leier, Gordon). And that makes it difficult to make adjustments since you're shuffling a half dozen forwards and three defensemen around. Now Hakstol has enough talent, and a varied mix of talent, that he can actually make meaningful adjustments.

Yep, agreed. In theory the skill level should be higher in several areas key to how he wants them playing.

 

[Dumpster Flyers]

Reading this post has my head spinning. Like I can't even express properly with words how terrible it is. My mind is numb.

Almost as terrible as Sanheim's positional play.

 

[whitstifier]

Argument could be made he took it over last year as well. This year he might have competition.. from the rookies, not the vets.

I still have hope for Gostisbehere. He'll need to show more 5v5 offense, though.

 

[Tripod]

Almost as terrible as Sanheim's positional play.

you lose more credibility the more you speak.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

If Hakstok keeps playing shit lineups, it should eventually lead to him being fired. That's if the Flyers stumble out of the gate.