Speculation: Florida's pick - Watch thread - (Upon request, thread title change lol)

[SwiftyHab]

Yup, hope our fans dint gloat.

Yup. Especially since we know That all the GMs diligently read these chat boards to see what all of us think about them and then strategize their next decisions.

 

[SupRocket]

As I've been mostly an NBA fan these last 10 years, is trading an unprotected pick for C level player a thing in the NHL? Or is the Panthers front office simply that stupid?

I understand that the Panthers weren't supposed to be this bad this season, but this is EXACTLY why you protect your first in case shit happens. You only see unprotected picks moved in the NBA for actual superstars, not for a journeyman rental. Not that I'm complaning about the result, but Panthers FO should all be fired over that.

 

[Whalers Fan]

The other angle is offering Anderson with retention down to $4M for Lafreniere. Rangers will not laugh at this and they do need RW depth in their top 9. Anderson is a piece they would value for the playoffs and they would have a feel on the trade market for Lafreniere.

Anderson at $4M prorated for the rest of this season and 4 more seasons. Value contract for a 20+ goal guy who plays an effective playoff style game.
vs
Lafreniere who is a former #1 OA but has not shown much in his 3 year ELC from age 19-21.

Habs can easily offer a sweetener if the Rangers feel we are close. Maybe someone like Struble or Tuch.

I doubt the Habs will retain on Anderson's long term contract.

 

[SwiftyHab]

As I've been mostly an NBA fan these last 10 years, is trading an unprotected pick for C level player a thing in the NHL? Or is the Panthers front office simply that stupid?

I understand that the Panthers weren't supposed to be this bad this season, but this is EXACTLY why you protect your first in case shit happens. You only see unprotected picks moved in the NBA for actual superstars, not for a journeyman rental. Not that I'm complaning about the result, but Panthers FO should all be fired over that.

Depends on the market. Florida thought that this was one of the two pieces they needed (Girouard being the other one) to win the cup and paid the market price as other teams wanted him too and there were a limited number of Dmen that could skate and we’re previously in the Stanley cup finals the year prior.

There’s a rationale behind why we got the pick. The unexpected part is how far they would decline this year.

 

[Sterling Archer]

As I've been mostly an NBA fan these last 10 years, is trading an unprotected pick for C level player a thing in the NHL? Or is the Panthers front office simply that stupid?

I understand that the Panthers weren't supposed to be this bad this season, but this is EXACTLY why you protect your first in case shit happens. You only see unprotected picks moved in the NBA for actual superstars, not for a journeyman rental. Not that I'm complaning about the result, but Panthers FO should all be fired over that.

Normally not the case especially for a depth player like Chariot. Florida traded multiple 1sts last year for much better players and the only one that was not protected was the one for Chariot AND in a year (2023) that is expected to be one of the better drafts in recent memory. That’s the biggest boo-boo they made and it’s a little perplexing as to why, particularly for Florida fans.

 

[Simarino]

Huge game for us tonight between Florida and Arizona!! If somehow Arizona, whos been a tough out lately, find a way to beat Florida, they would surpass the Habs in the standing(assuming we loose) and it will probably crush Florida's spirit for the rest of the season, this would make it almost impossible to reach the wild card teams.

 

[SwiftyHab]

Huge game for us tonight between Florida and Arizona!! If somehow Arizona, whos been a tough out lately, find a way to beat Florida, they would surpass the Habs in the standing(assuming we loose) and it will probably crush Florida's spirit for the rest of the season, this would make it almost impossible to reach the wild card teams.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I doubt the Habs will retain on Anderson's long term contract.

I doubt it as well but it's a possible way to get Lafreniere. Rangers will ponder about Anderson at $4M. It's a good approach IMO. They do need RW help and his style of play is something they would value for the playoffs.

* Retain on Monahan and it expires this season
* Retain on Eddy and that expires after next season.
* Possible that we have two contracts retained for next year. Eddy for a full season and then Hoffman possibly at the 24 deadline. If you add Anderson, that makes 3 but then it expires after next season and then its only Anderson.

Who else would the retention spots be used on? Why is it a bad idea to get better futures return advantage by retaining? Eddy and Anderson would return a lot if we retain. I don't see the problem and it don't hurt our cap space for adding pieces like Dubois or Klingberg (for example).

 

[sandviper]

They mention it in the GDT involving the Habs. They weren’t happy about some of our fans who are apparently being obnoxious about how the FLA pick could turn into Bedard.

This may well be the last time we see an unprotected first round pick change hands.

While we have regulars who sometimes talk out of their ass, I find more often than not, our fans who troll other forums tend to be those who aren’t all that frequent in our own. That, or of course using burner accounts.

I mean, it‘s rare for me but I’ll shit talk other fans/fan bases or teams, but I’ll do it here or the mains.

 

[Milhouse40]

 

[Habs Halifax]

He apparently didn't like playing wing on those teams. He was basically sulking in WPG when he got there and they put him on the wing.

Follow the timeline cause it deep in context....

* From Montreal and clearly grew up a Habs fan

* Habs shopping Subban and trying to get the Oilers or Canucks pick which is where he was projected to go. Blue Jackets messed up that plan

* A Habs fan growing up and an absolute beast against the Leafs when they upset them in the 1st round.

* Asked out of Columbus at a time when the Habs were looking for a center. No doubt in my mind that he wanted the Habs to trade for him and we tried but Jets intervened by offering Laine... with the mindset he would extend with them.

* Was very uninspired after that trade. Didn't show up against the Habs in the 2nd round.

* Sucks it up and performs well in his 2nd season with the Jets.

* A reporter from the Jets releases this "Dubois is telling members of the Jets organization that he wants to play for the Habs one day". It gets laughed on HF boards and then shortly after, more information comes where he says he will test UFA.

* Dubois agent then says he wants to play for the Habs with his client being a RFA with no contract, he is allowed to say it.

* Dubois has a press conference to talk about the rumor noise in an attempt to calm down things. Keeps saying the right things like Tavares did when he was with the Islanders.

Yeah, he will sign with the Habs if we offer him a fair contract. Regardless of our center depth or not.

 

[Xss]

As I've been mostly an NBA fan these last 10 years, is trading an unprotected pick for C level player a thing in the NHL? Or is the Panthers front office simply that stupid?

I understand that the Panthers weren't supposed to be this bad this season, but this is EXACTLY why you protect your first in case shit happens. You only see unprotected picks moved in the NBA for actual superstars, not for a journeyman rental. Not that I'm complaning about the result, but Panthers FO should all be fired over that.

I would love to know how the negotiation went with this trade. Pretty much all trades with 1st round pick are protected now so it must have come up for sure. I wonder if Hughes had another team lined up with a first round pick and the unprotected first is what made the deal with Florida.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I would love to know how the negotiation went with this trade. Pretty much all trades with 1st round pick are protected now so it must have come up for sure. I wonder if Hughes had another team lined up with a first round pick and the unprotected first is what made the deal with Florida.

I’m sure that was the case. Hughes said if you want him, no protection or I’m trading him to team X, who was likely lower in the standings and has a more attractive pick.

 

[Habs Halifax]

While we have regulars who sometimes talk out of their ass, I find more often than not, our fans who troll other forums tend to be those who aren’t all that frequent in our own. That, or of course using burner accounts.

I mean, it‘s rare for me but I’ll shit talk other fans/fan bases or teams, but I’ll do it here or the mains.

The burner accounts needs to be targeted by the mods and IT guys. Disgusting to think people out there create other accounts to hide behind a key board. Horrible social media culture.

To be honest, I have noticed HF board being a better place to talk hockey. Still got some ignorant and aggressive fans out there but the post wars about stupid stuff are less.

Going to another teams board to chirp them is uncalled for. Don't do it people.

I’m sure that was the case. Hughes said if you want him, no protection or I’m trading him to team X, who was likely lower in the standings and has a more attractive pick.

I agree with that. It makes the most logical sense.

The add on in that trade don't get talked about much eh? Smilanic? Not sure if I spelled his name correctly

 

[HABitual Fan]

I doubt it as well but it's a possible way to get Lafreniere. Rangers will ponder about Anderson at $4M. It's a good approach IMO. They do need RW help and his style of play is something they would value for the playoffs.

* Retain on Monahan and it expires this season
* Retain on Eddy and that expires after next season.
* Possible that we have two contracts retained for next year. Eddy for a full season and then Hoffman possibly at the 24 deadline. If you add Anderson, that makes 3 but then it expires after next season and then its only Anderson.

Who else would the retention spots be used on? Why is it a bad idea to get better futures return advantage by retaining? Eddy and Anderson would return a lot if we retain. I don't see the problem and it don't hurt our cap space for adding pieces like Dubois or Klingberg (for example).

I don't get the obsession with acquiring Lafreniere, the guy is heading to bust territory and has skating issues that prevent him from fitting in with a speedy team as it appears HuGo are trying to build here. I would not offer more than the Colorado 2nd for him at this point. Anderson retained holds way more value than him.

Could see Anderson moved with retention to a team like Calgary that are stuck in the middle of the standings, and have a bad expiring contract (Lucic) that they can send back to clear more cap room for moves, for a 1st (Florida's) or top prospect.

As to retention spots, there is enough cap space next year to acquire or sign someone like Anaheim did with Klingberg to flip at the deadline with retention. With most of the vet forwards off the books there could be some spots to fill next season. Don't reallly see any forwards internally to fill those spots as early as next season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I doubt it as well but it's a possible way to get Lafreniere. Rangers will ponder about Anderson at $4M. It's a good approach IMO. They do need RW help and his style of play is something they would value for the playoffs.

* Retain on Monahan and it expires this season
* Retain on Eddy and that expires after next season.
* Possible that we have two contracts retained for next year. Eddy for a full season and then Hoffman possibly at the 24 deadline. If you add Anderson, that makes 3 but then it expires after next season and then its only Anderson.

Who else would the retention spots be used on? Why is it a bad idea to get better futures return advantage by retaining? Eddy and Anderson would return a lot if we retain. I don't see the problem and it don't hurt our cap space for adding pieces like Dubois or Klingberg (for example).

Iirc, we can only have two ongoing retentions at the same time

 

[Habs Halifax]

Iirc, we can only have two ongoing retentions at the same time

I heard 3 is the number?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Iirc, we can only have two ongoing retentions at the same time

Teams can retain on 3 contracts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Teams can retain on 3 contracts.

@Ozymandias

This is what I found... Snap shot below and link... NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps.

What is a retained salary transaction/trade​

When a team trades a player, they have the option to retain a part of their salary (and cap hit). The team who retains the salary then pays the retained percentage of the salary, and also retains the percentage of the cap hit until the contract expires. The following requirements must be met to retain salary:

1. The percentage retained cannot exceed 50 percent of the player’s salary (including all bonuses) and Salary Cap Hit.
2. The same percentage must be retained for both the player’s salary and Salary Cap Hit, and cannot be modified.
3. All teams are limited to a maximum of 3 retained salary contracts per season.
4. Teams cannot retain an aggregate amount of more than 15 percent of the Salary Cap Upper Limit.
5. Players’ contracts are limited to 2 retained salary transactions per contract.

What does the last clause mean?

"Players’ contracts are limited to 2 retained salary transactions per contract"

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

@Ozymandias

This is what I found... Snap shot below and link... NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps.

What is a retained salary transaction/trade​

When a team trades a player, they have the option to retain a part of their salary (and cap hit). The team who retains the salary then pays the retained percentage of the salary, and also retains the percentage of the cap hit until the contract expires. The following requirements must be met to retain salary:

1. The percentage retained cannot exceed 50 percent of the player’s salary (including all bonuses) and Salary Cap Hit.
2. The same percentage must be retained for both the player’s salary and Salary Cap Hit, and cannot be modified.
3. All teams are limited to a maximum of 3 retained salary contracts per season.
4. Teams cannot retain an aggregate amount of more than 15 percent of the Salary Cap Upper Limit.
5. Players’ contracts are limited to 2 retained salary transactions per contract.

What does the last clause mean?

"Players’ contracts are limited to 2 retained salary transactions per contract"

Beats me

 

[Habs Halifax]

Beats me

This does not make any sense to me... Players’ contracts are limited to 2 retained salary transactions per contract

Anybody want to try to explain it? Are they saying that someone like Kane can only be retained on twice? So if the Blackhawks want to trade him where a 3rd team retains, Only the Blackhawks and that 3rd team is the limit on Kane's contract?

 

[Ozmodiar]

@Ozymandias

This is what I found... Snap shot below and link... NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps.

What is a retained salary transaction/trade​

When a team trades a player, they have the option to retain a part of their salary (and cap hit). The team who retains the salary then pays the retained percentage of the salary, and also retains the percentage of the cap hit until the contract expires. The following requirements must be met to retain salary:

1. The percentage retained cannot exceed 50 percent of the player’s salary (including all bonuses) and Salary Cap Hit.
2. The same percentage must be retained for both the player’s salary and Salary Cap Hit, and cannot be modified.
3. All teams are limited to a maximum of 3 retained salary contracts per season.
4. Teams cannot retain an aggregate amount of more than 15 percent of the Salary Cap Upper Limit.
5. Players’ contracts are limited to 2 retained salary transactions per contract.

What does the last clause mean?

"Players’ contracts are limited to 2 retained salary transactions per contract"

A player can be traded with retained salary.
The acquiring team can trade that player, retaining more salary.
… if the player is traded a 3rd time, salary retention is not allowed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

A player can be traded with retained salary.
The acquiring team can trade that player, retaining more salary.
… if the player is traded a 3rd time, salary retention is not allowed.

That's kind of what I was guessing it meant.

So yeah, we can retain 3 contracts at the same time. Max is 15% of the cap so $12M ish. We won't be retaining anywhere near that amount. Those of you who think we can retain on Drouin and Dadonov and Monahan and possibly Eddy need to think again. Drouin and Dadonov are going nowhere other than expiring. There is a very small chance one of them gets traded for a 4th rounder or higher but even at 50% retention, those cup contenders prefer not to chew up any cap they got on a player like that.

Personally, I would consider retention on Anderson if he landed us Lafreniere. I was also retain on both Eddy and Monahan if we got the futures we wanted. I don't see major issues there and it don't block us from signing both Dubois and Klingberg... if we choose to do so.

 

[Legend123]

Did you know when the sharks acquired Erik Karlsson and gone all in for the cup they started the season with 16-20-2 record only 2 points worse than the Panthers now (16-18-4).

Both teams gave up an unprotected first
Both teams expected to compete for the cup
Both teams riding old cores

Both teams sucking real hard with no passion in their game.

Deja Vue? History repeating itself ?

Seems like it. Sjs finished 4th to last that season with 63 points in 70 games for a .450 point %. Panthers are at .474

Ott drafted a superstar in the making in Stutzle.

Now it's our turn to draft a superstar from another team's pick

 

[Matthew McConaughay]

If we don't get Bedard and we get Michkov, we're in good hands, i like Michkov almost as much as Bedard, Michkov is just not followed as much.