Post-Game Talk: Florida Panthers at New York Rangers - November 28

[will1066]

Actually Smith is the LD and Holden the RD on that pairing — although both are LHS which is far from optimal...

AV need to get a natural RD and LD on the ice when defending. You can’t have a RD out there trying to clear pucks with his back hand which a LHS is forced to do. The positioning, everything just becomes a mess.

I see your point. Just watched the play again, and in hindsight Smith was by far the transgressor over Holden. If Smith had flipped the puck high and into the Florida end, the whole sequence would never have happened. Instead, he triggered a two-on-one break, and by the time Holden got the puck, he was in between the hash marks and had little time and space as a LHS. Holden could have tried turning to his left and spin toward the right boards and flip the puck high off the glass on his backhand, but again he had little time and space and had to make a split-second decision, which was to go forehand toward the left boards. Then Holden wound up defending down low to Pav's left and when Smith got destroyed blocking the Pysyk shot he scooted across the crease to try and block Malgin's shot and wound up taking Pav's eyes away.

 

[Ola]

Wi

I see your point. Just watched the play again, and in hindsight Smith was by far the transgressor over Holden. If Smith had flipped the puck high and into the Florida end, the whole sequence would never have happened. Instead, he triggered a two-on-one break, and by the time Holden got the puck, he was in between the hash marks and had little time and space as a LHS. Holden could have tried turning to his left and spin toward the right boards and flip the puck high off the glass on his backhand, but again he had little time and space and had to make a split-second decision, which was to go forehand toward the left boards. Then Holden wound up defending down low to Pav's left and when Smith got destroyed blocking the Pysyk shot he scooted across the crease to try and block Malgin's shot and wound up taking Pav's eyes away.

Yeah, and even if that play by Holden almost benefits a LHS, it’s still not optimal since a RHS surely would have cleared that puck up the right boards. Now you get two Ds going in the same direction where the defense is.

Not even saying that this goal was given up since we had two LHS on the ice — but it’s not a good idea and AV should stop it.

 

[Kovalev27]

You are going to seriously sit there and blame Lundqvist for the first two goals and give Pavelec a complete pass on both of his goals against?

Hank's only bad goal was the 3rd, he should have had that. The first one was a crazy deflection/ bounce, and the second was a Holden turnover to a guy who had an uncontested snipe from the slot. These are bad goals?

If it was Hank who gave up the goal to Huberdeau on the rebound, or especially Malgin's game winner, you would be absolutely crucifying him.

At least be, objective, at least be consistent, at least be fair. You're none of those things in your analysis.

dude you are on another planet. always have been when it comes to hank. uncontested snipe? he was sitting in the net not square and got beat by a 4th liner twice he got beat by 4th liners CLEAN. first one he put in himself.

how pavelec is supposed to make 5 saves on the first goal against then make the save on a slap shot 10 feet out with holden diving in front of him so he CLEARLY was screened is not on him.

you defended hank to the death to start the year when again CLEARLY he was awful nothing shows it more than how good he's been during the stretch. there is a DISTINCT difference between the way he played the first 12 games vs the next 12. but not to you he was awesome no matter what. so the defense got that much better? no not at all. you have no sense of reason when it comes to lundqvist its pure motherly obsession. weird honestly.

 

[Machinehead]

Dude...at least listen to my dilemma.

I'm open to a good discussion about AV, but every year you harp on a few things that turn out to be dead wrong, so why should I trust you now?

If we make the playoffs and by the end of the season it looks as if AV did a decent, not Scotty Bowman level, but decent work with a transition roster, which team will you root for in the playoffs this year.

You picked the wrong one new team last year too.

I mean I want to agree with you on it. You are so adamant about AV being so bad and causing so many issues. I mean my general personal analysis is that he isn't, but then you and a few similar posters keep demanding we see the light, so I think there must be something I'm missing about AV, yet then I think

but Reggie they've been banging pots and pans about 4th liners, journeymen, rejected early state advanced stats, any goalie working, and even what was going on in seasons that are poorly documented in archives on the internet from years before they were conceived or conscious of their surroundings...could they be wrong again...

tough call ya know?

You're talking about making the playoffs. Who cares?

We could go 82-0 and giving Buchnvich 4th line minutes at even strength is still wrong.

 

[Fitzy]

McDonagh is still likely the team;s most valuable player, so missing him will be a problem.

NYR have been fielding effectively two third pairings in Mac's absence. Holden and Smith had a real struggle last game.

The overreactions about never playing Holden again are rather silly, though. Guy shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes regularly, and when he's there there will be some occasional mistakes. We move on. He's still one of the best 3rd pairing options around.

When McDonagh comes back it's about trying to find the right partner with him for a legitimate first pairing. Smith, Holden, Staal? None are ideal for that kind of role.

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Another heartbreaker, a lot to look at after this game, but the loss in my eyes due to the Smith/Holden pair more than anything else (besides the horrible ref). These two on in the last minutes of the 3rd has spelled disaster for us this season and all last playoffs. I'm not sure how to get it into AVs head that these two are not a good shutdown pair to use against top lines. Holden and Staal played GREAT! Why can't we PLEASE have Holden and Staal back. Anyway assuming that doesn't happen then I'd like for Holden to be dealt because unfortunately The Smith Project is likely staying. Alternatively, I wouldn't mind if we started playing with 7 Defensemen, the Kampfer experiment has worked so maybe we can grab another one of our AHLers and start playing guys on a shift-to-shift basis. Smith and Holden looked like s**t against their top line.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

What part of AV coaching like an imbecile and losing us a playoff series makes MH or any other poster wrong about him?

As 4th liner and journeyman Tanner Glass was on the ice defending a lead with a minute left (this is new for him, brilliant!) and then literally kicked the tying goal in the net, I'm sure you cheered AV for his bold and brilliant decision making in defiance of early state common sense and Glass's poorly documented history of being a terrible player.

Yeah this would be one of the citations I would make for my previous point.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

You're talking about making the playoffs. Who cares?

We could go 82-0 and giving Buchnvich 4th line minutes at even strength is still wrong.

Coach makes roster go 82-0, but did it wrong because of your opinion sums you up.

Anyway, is Buch getting 4th line pp minutes? Also, which month is this.

 

[kovazub94]

Mentioned it before the game that I would've looked into giving Hank a rest for this game. Should've kept this to myself. : )

Well, there are some games where you get outplayed by another team and win, and then there are those where you outplay your opponents by lose.

This one was of course a tough pill to take because of a comeback and only 1 minute left to secure a point but it is what it is.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

Sometimes you really do get that unlucky multiple times in a game. Game 3 of the 2014 SCF comes to mind.

 

[Machinehead]

Coach makes roster go 82-0, but did it wrong because of your opinion sums you up.

Anyway, is Buch getting 4th line pp minutes? Also, which month is this.

No, he did it wrong because he did it wrong. Buchnevich is one of our most effective players at even strength. The fact that you're justifying him as a powerplay specialist shows that you're just as out to lunch as AV is.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

No, he did it wrong because he did it wrong. Buchnevich is one of our most effective players at even strength. The fact that you're justifying him as a powerplay specialist shows that you're just as out to lunch as AV is.

This is one of the many unofficial metrics you and a few others use to stifle any form on constructive argument.

Look...things like giving more offensively minded sophomores less over all TOI, yet first PP minutes isn't some esoteric thing.

I have to put my fingers back in my ears.

 

[Machinehead]

This is one of the many unofficial metrics you and a few others use to stifle any form on constructive argument.

Look...things like giving more offensively minded sophomores less over all TOI, yet first PP minutes isn't some esoteric thing.

I have to put my fingers back in my ears.

Because if I give you the official metrics it's "MUH HURR DURR WATCH DA GAMEZ NERD"

 

[Fvital92]

This is one of the many unofficial metrics you and a few others use to stifle any form on constructive argument.

Look...things like giving more offensively minded sophomores less over all TOI, yet first PP minutes isn't some esoteric thing.

I have to put my fingers back in my ears.

Buchnevich at worst is pretty solid in his own end. Better than Vesey, for example. Actually, he is better than Vesey in anything, be it Corsi, eye test, 5v5, PP.
It's not rational To give more ice time To Vesey than for Kreider or Buchnevich, nevertheless when we are down 3 goals.

You go outta the way trying to defend AV's decisions. Even ESPN, who doesn't give a f*** about hockey, called out AV. It's beyond laughable at this point his personnel decisions.

 

[nevesis]

first one he put in himself.

Like I said last night, it seems you forget very quickly (or maybe aren't even watching) what happens on these goals. Perhaps you should watch the clips on NHL.com or the NHL app? Because apparently these images are of Hank putting the puck in himself?

Some people just don't live in reality or fail to refer back to the video for what actually happened.

uncontested snipe? he was sitting in the net not square and got beat by a 4th liner twice he got beat by 4th liners CLEAN.

Second goal...

Holden defensive zone turnover.

Hank 'sitting in the net, not square?' Not quite. He got beat by a guy with all day to pick his spot.

The only goal that you can truly blame him for was the 3rd, I thought he should have had that one.

AV didn't pull him because he thought he was bad, the team was making mistakes all over the ice and before you could blink it was 3-0. Bringing Pavelec in the game woke the team up a bit and they made a great comeback but another defensive zone turnover by Holden was the reason we lost the game.

 

[Machinehead]

If we were 16-6-2, I could comprehend the "don't harp on it because AV is doing a good job" argument.

This team is not that f***ing good. They're a .500 team with historically bad defensive analytics. Why are we defending the coach?

 

[LORDE]

People seem to be making a HUGE deal about a game in Nov. that we didn't ice our #1 C, our #1 D and the team we played had some amazing luck on their 1st two goals.

Yeah you can gripe about player usage and there is some reason for that, but there's a lot of hockey left in the season and if we play MOST of our games like we did last night and have our normal lineup I don't think there's a huge reason to be concerned.

That being said if McD and Zbad are out for a while maybe that'll help us to realize we should be selling... especially Nash.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Because if I give you the official metrics it's "MUH HURR DURR WATCH DA GAMEZ NERD"

How many years now where you treat metrics as the law of the land rather than a useful tool? You're a lost cause.

AV should be commended for how hes bringing a young player along carefully at even strength, and giving him ample PP time to boot. Its his 2nd year, lest you be reminded that his first was ruined by not being strong enough to play in the NHL. You seem to want to ignore this and throw Buchnevich out there 25 mins a game because a spreadsheet told you it might be a good idea.

 

[will1066]

Those who are complaining about Vesey getting more minutes than Buch might want to check the last five games' TOI. Last game was the ONLY one where Buch got less minutes than Vesey. It's easy to pick a sample size of ONE. You might want to venture that maybe Vesey got more minutes this time around because he was on a line with Hayes and Nash.

 

[LORDE]

Too bad Butch didn't score on that break in the 1st period... 3rd goal never happens and its a while new ballgame

 

[chosen]

You're talking about making the playoffs. Who cares?

We could go 82-0 and giving Buchnvich 4th line minutes at even strength is still wrong.

If a team went 82-0 and a fan criticized the coach, that fan would easily outdistance the second most stupid fan in the world.

 

[Fvital92]

Those who are complaining about Vesey getting more minutes than Buch might want to check the last five games' TOI. Last game was the ONLY one where Buch got less minutes than Vesey. It's easy to pick a sample size of ONE. You might want to venture that maybe Vesey got more minutes this time around because he was on a line with Hayes and Nash.

And it was the game that him and kreider were flying all over the ice. If they were bad nobody would say a thing.

 

[Fvital92]

Too bad Butch didn't score on that break in the 1st period... 3rd goal never happens and its a while new ballgame

I was surprised that the goalie didn't go down on that situation. Kudos to him.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Buchnevich at worst is pretty solid in his own end. Better than Vesey, for example. Actually, he is better than Vesey in anything, be it Corsi, eye test, 5v5, PP.
It's not rational To give more ice time To Vesey than for Kreider or Buchnevich, nevertheless when we are down 3 goals.

You go outta the way trying to defend AV's decisions. Even ESPN, who doesn't give a **** about hockey, called out AV. It's beyond laughable at this point his personnel decisions.

Meh…most of TV programming today is just regurgitating tweets.

Anyway, I disagree with everything you said. It’s not a conspiracy. If the team followed you and your homies stats we’d be the worst team in the history of sports since the ice age.

Sorry. I don’t think you know what your talking about and you can pull as many “effective minutes” , “expected results”, or any other non confirmed test to justify you and your homies insufferable circular logic.

Peace

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

People seem to be making a HUGE deal about a game in Nov. that we didn't ice our #1 C, our #1 D and the team we played had some amazing luck on their 1st two goals.

Yeah you can gripe about player usage and there is some reason for that, but there's a lot of hockey left in the season and if we play MOST of our games like we did last night and have our normal lineup I don't think there's a huge reason to be concerned.

That being said if McD and Zbad are out for a while maybe that'll help us to realize we should be selling... especially Nash.

We almost went to OT too sans a bad pass and a horrific start?

Or was the 4th line given 15 too many extra seconds?