Flint Firebirds 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)

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Hockeypolice

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Well, he did everything possible to get W for the team. Yes, doesn't look pretty, it's even more on the ugly side, but we both know, there is no explanation about goals when you're checking scoring sheets. He is not afraid to get his nose dirty and he gets awarded today. This team needs player like him.
 

MJ5

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Well, he did everything possible to get W for the team. Yes, doesn't look pretty, it's even more on the ugly side, but we both know, there is no explanation about goals when you're checking scoring sheets. He is not afraid to get his nose dirty and he gets awarded today. This team needs player like him.
I'll give you effort was better today, but that effort hasn't been there every night, might be the first time it was noticeable.
Your goalie Brown, was robbed off the star today.
Which is great to see his last couple starts were rough.
 

Savard18

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I'll give you effort was better today, but that effort hasn't been there every night, might be the first time it was noticeable.

Which is great to see his last couple starts were rough.
Maybe the puck off the pants and the EN is what it takes to get him finally going. He went 1/6 of a season with zero points and was on pace for -34 over a full season so I’ll take anything that shows promise. The play to chip the puck up ice was nice but to be honest it very easily could have been a call on the hold. Hamilton goes on the PP. Scores to send it to OT. Wins it during the 3 on 3. Then the conversation is very different. Let’s see if he can continue trending up because 1 game out of 12 where he shows effort and has a positive impact is definitely NOT what this team needs. As far as not criticizing players, that’s blind allegiance, brainwashed, cult type thinking. Not really my thing.

Good weekend on the road though. They gotta figure out how to replicate that at home. Big W’s missing 2/3 of their top line and their #1 D. I was not impressed with Ewles play or decision making at all the first 5-6 games but despite some miscues vs Hamilton, he’s looked much better and shown a lot of potential. After a couple rough outings Brown looked good too. Consistency can be hard to find for 17yo rookie goalies. He’s shown this year that if the D plays half decent in front of him and he finds that consistency he’s gonna be good. I know McParlan and Flache probably feel their job safety needs a couple home playoff games but I’d still like to see a little more Jacob Brown down the stretch.
 

Gensdef

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Cant believe all the people on FireBird Nation site, that want to make that 8th seed playoff spot. Their reasoning is it would be good experience for the young guys. Not so sure facing the #1 seed in the west would good experience. I think i would rather miss playoffs this year and get a higher draft choice. this team facing the #1 seed could be a 4 game wipe out. Just my opinion.
 

donjohnson

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Cant believe all the people on FireBird Nation site, that want to make that 8th seed playoff spot. Their reasoning is it would be good experience for the young guys. Not so sure facing the #1 seed in the west would good experience. I think i would rather miss playoffs this year and get a higher draft choice. this team facing the #1 seed could be a 4 game wipe out. Just my opinion.
I would agree with you...the high pick in both drafts this season is more important than getting smoked in the playoffs. Flint is likely going to need at least one import next year (I don't see both being back as OA's) so the higher you can get in that draft the better.
 

HockeyPops

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My personal opinion is that teams never truly tank for a pick. Sure, the GM might trade away some impact players and make it harder to win. But the remaining players and coaches still want to do well. The chase for the 8th playoff spot is going to be the payoff for this team down the stretch. If they make it into the playoffs, they will have had to hold off Sarnia's recent good form. They will have something positive to end the regular season. And they will have developed some young players in some pressure situations which will hopefully give them a leg up next year.

Bringing the whole team up a notch is worth a lot more than picking a few spots higher. IMO.

Now, the race for that 8th spot can still provide lots of payoff even if they miss out on the spot. The key is they want to feel like they are in the race, and the team is all pulling in the same direction down the stretch.

A stark cry from the other 3 teams currently out of a playoff spot. They probably already feel like they can't make the playoffs, and are just mailing the rest of the season in. Not a lot of development happening if that's the general feeling around the room. Embrace the race for 8th. It means development is happening every day.
 

Gensdef

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My personal opinion is that teams never truly tank for a pick. Sure, the GM might trade away some impact players and make it harder to win. But the remaining players and coaches still want to do well. The chase for the 8th playoff spot is going to be the payoff for this team down the stretch. If they make it into the playoffs, they will have had to hold off Sarnia's recent good form. They will have something positive to end the regular season. And they will have developed some young players in some pressure situations which will hopefully give them a leg up next year.

Bringing the whole team up a notch is worth a lot more than picking a few spots higher. IMO.

Now, the race for that 8th spot can still provide lots of payoff even if they miss out on the spot. The key is they want to feel like they are in the race, and the team is all pulling in the same direction down the stretch.

A stark cry from the other 3 teams currently out of a playoff spot. They probably already feel like they can't make the playoffs, and are just mailing the rest of the season in. Not a lot of development happening if that's the general feeling around the room. Embrace the race for 8th. It means development is happening every day.
for sure dont want the guys to tank. always want them to go for the win. Just not sure they would develope much in a 4 game series against the best of the west
 

dirty12

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Cant believe all the people on FireBird Nation site, that want to make that 8th seed playoff spot. Their reasoning is it would be good experience for the young guys. Not so sure facing the #1 seed in the west would good experience. I think i would rather miss playoffs this year and get a higher draft choice. this team facing the #1 seed could be a 4 game wipe out. Just my opinion.
There is a chance, but just a10% chance of winning the lottery if finishing 17th.. Is there a player ranked 4-7 that would commit to any team that Flint should really want?
I mostly hate the lottery, maybe less if it was odds of 40-15-15-15-15 including one playoff team; but I'm liking it this season and rooting for the Petes to pick fourth.
 

AnotherDimwit

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Cant believe all the people on FireBird Nation site, that want to make that 8th seed playoff spot. Their reasoning is it would be good experience for the young guys. Not so sure facing the #1 seed in the west would good experience. I think i would rather miss playoffs this year and get a higher draft choice. this team facing the #1 seed could be a 4 game wipe out. Just my opinion.
Most people in there don't understand the nuances of Jr Hockey. They don't ever look at the bigger picture. It's whats on the ice now. They get furious when the team trades away players for picks because it means a worse product on ice now. They were excited when we traded picks for OAs Mancini and Peer. They don't understand that teams sell off assets in rebuilding seasons and empty the cupboard to load up for championship runs. I don't think it helps either that COVID likely took away 2 of our strongest seasons and so we go back to rebuilding.

I do agree with Pops for the most part. I think it's good for the team to be in the race. Hopefully it does develop some of the younger players. But I'll happily take 9th in a close race and get the higer pick. The last game here showed they're obviously not anywhere close to London in any aspect. 4 extra blowouts does little for the players, especially Day who will get left out to dry no matter how well our D plays them.
 

dirty12

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Most people in there don't understand the nuances of Jr Hockey. They don't ever look at the bigger picture. It's whats on the ice now. They get furious when the team trades away players for picks because it means a worse product on ice now. They were excited when we traded picks for OAs Mancini and Peer. They don't understand that teams sell off assets in rebuilding seasons and empty the cupboard to load up for championship runs. I don't think it helps either that COVID likely took away 2 of our strongest seasons and so we go back to rebuilding.

I do agree with Pops for the most part. I think it's good for the team to be in the race. Hopefully it does develop some of the younger players. But I'll happily take 9th in a close race and get the higer pick. The last game here showed they're obviously not anywhere close to London in any aspect. 4 extra blowouts does little for the players, especially Day who will get left out to dry no matter how well our D plays them.
I think I understand the nuances of major jr. If the team performed well, it will be easier for them to recruit future prospects.
Review the past five drafts of players currently playing, does it really matter if picking 4th or 5-8?
 

MJ5

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Cant believe all the people on FireBird Nation site, that want to make that 8th seed playoff spot. Their reasoning is it would be good experience for the young guys. Not so sure facing the #1 seed in the west would good experience. I think i would rather miss playoffs this year and get a higher draft choice. this team facing the #1 seed could be a 4 game wipe out. Just my opinion.
Facebook groups are the worst. The few people who are loud and talk a lot have absolutely no clue how junior hockey works, and it just brain washes the rest of them.
 

MJ5

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If we knew we could get whoever we wanted to commit, I'd be all for the tank. But we all know that is no guarantee.

We are now just 2 points out of 7th. Erie is without Gaudreau for a couple weeks at least. Maybe we take a game from Soo or Saginaw in a series.
 

Hockeypolice

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Facebook groups are the worst. The few people who are loud and talk a lot have absolutely no clue how junior hockey works, and it just brain washes the rest of them.
I personally believe, you are one of them. Also, I can't wait for savard18 to give us an analytical explanation about our game played last night.
 
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MJ5

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I personally believe, you are one of them. Also, I can't wait for savard18 to give us an analytical explanation about our game played last night.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm not. I know you are heart broken to find that out. It's okay tho, you obviously keep coming back here for our extremely valuable opinions.

Savard and I wouldn't keep posting without die hard groupies like you.

Thank you for your support!
 

AnotherDimwit

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I think I understand the nuances of major jr. If the team performed well, it will be easier for them to recruit future prospects.
Review the past five drafts of players currently playing, does it really matter if picking 4th or 5-8?
Hence why I said most and not all.

In the scheme of things? No probably not. But the farther back you pick means that many less options in the basket of players who will reported vs those who refuse. The likelyhood of the team making any sort of real playoff run is nearly 0. The likelyhood that Flint gets a better player at 4 (or 10% shot at 1) vs 5-7 is probably close to negligible, but in my opinion, higher than beating London or Saginaw in a 7 game series.

I'm not going to breakdown every draft, but I will said that'd I'd have rather drafted 1 pick higher in 2018 with 1.1 vs 1.2 and gotten the roughly 140 points that Byfield would've had vs the 35 we got from Vierling before he requested a trade.
 
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MJ5

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Hence why I said most and not all.

In the scheme of things? No probably not. But the farther back you pick means that many less options in the basket of players who will reported vs those who refuse. The likelyhood of the team making any sort of real playoff run is nearly 0. The likelyhood that Flint gets a better player at 4 (or 10% shot at 1) vs 5-7 is probably close to negligible, but in my opinion, higher than beating London or Saginaw in a 7 game series.

I'm not going to breakdown every draft, but I will said that'd I'd have rather drafted 1 pick higher in 2018 with 1.1 vs 1.2 and gotten the roughly 140 points that Byfield would've had vs the 35 we got from Vierling before he requested a trade.
Blyfield could have said no. But we could have taken him and got a haul to trade him. He was easily the clear #1.
 
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AnotherDimwit

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Blyfield could have said no. But we could have taken him and got a haul to trade him. He was easily the clear #1.
I swear I remember him saying he'd go to Flint or Sudbury. But that was a long time ago lol

You and Dirty both make good points against a full tank, I just think it's slightly better to miss. Though I won't complain if the go off the rest of the season and get 7 or 8. Seems like a lot of Windsor/Sarnia games ahead so it could happen.
 

HockeyPops

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The likelyhood that Flint gets a better player at 4 (or 10% shot at 1) vs 5-7 is probably close to negligible, but in my opinion, higher than beating London or Saginaw in a 7 game series.
Winning a playoff series is not the only reason to want to make the playoffs. Allowing the rookies to experience the playoffs and how everything gets ratcheted up another level is invaluable for (hopeful) future runs. You can never describe what the playoffs are like to those that haven't played. You have to experience them. And learn from that experience. And roll what you learned into your game for future seasons.

Even a 4 and out for a young team with future aspirations can be invaluable.
 

ohloutsider

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Winning a playoff series is not the only reason to want to make the playoffs. Allowing the rookies to experience the playoffs and how everything gets ratcheted up another level is invaluable for (hopeful) future runs. You can never describe what the playoffs are like to those that haven't played. You have to experience them. And learn from that experience. And roll what you learned into your game for future seasons.

Even a 4 and out for a young team with future aspirations can be invaluable.
I have a hard time buying in to this. These kids come from a history of league play downs and one and done tournaments since they were 6 years old. They totally understand the consequences of how to win or not win in a playoff series. This is not something "new" when they get to the OHL.
 
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HockeyPops

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I have a hard time buying in to this. These kids come from a history of league play downs and one and done tournaments since they were 6 years old. They totally understand the consequences of how to win or not win in a playoff series. This is not something "new" when they get to the OHL.
To a certain extent I agree, but the OHL is a definite step up from minor midget, and to experience the ramp up in intensity in the OHL playoffs can be an eye-opener for many young players. IMO.
 

Hockeypolice

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Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm not. I know you are heart broken to find that out. It's okay tho, you obviously keep coming back here for our extremely valuable opinions.

Savard and I wouldn't keep posting without die hard groupies like you.

Thank you for your support!
Exactly what I expected from guys like you and Savard18. Probably you never played any sport, or if U did, that was no competitive, or no contact game.This level is way out of your league, but you consider yourself a hockey guru??? Keep calm, and don't try to make yourself smarter than you are. I understand you like hockey, everyone here does, but maaan...this boys are young athletes, and they are bleeding every night to do the best they can...enjoy the game, no one cares what do you think. And talking bad about some players, ain't gonna make you feel better...cheers!
 

MJ5

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Exactly what I expected from guys like you and Savard18. Probably you never played any sport, or if U did, that was no competitive, or no contact game.This level is way out of your league, but you consider yourself a hockey guru??? Keep calm, and don't try to make yourself smarter than you are. I understand you like hockey, everyone here does, but maaan...this boys are young athletes, and they are bleeding every night to do the best they can...enjoy the game, no one cares what do you think. And talking bad about some players, ain't gonna make you feel better...cheers!
Where would you like me to email my resume of athletic accomplishments? You apparently really care what we think, you keep coming back for more.

It's a message board about the team, what do you want us to talk about? Ohhh did you see Daks give Blake his orange slices yesterday? So sweet of him! GTFO I'm not showing up as a team dad to watch my kids play. I pay to watch the product. Myself and everyone else here has an opinion on the team, we love to have constructive conversations, your IQ about the sport clearly isn't high enough to understand or participate in the conversations. That's okay, we can get you a participation trophy for signing up here.

I'm sure you say the same thing when talking about Michigan or Michigan State sports as well? Well Juwan is coaching the team really hard, he's trying! Did you see Tom Izzo yell at that kid? HOW DARE HIM! ITS A KID!!!!

Can I show up when you give everyone their participation trophies? I'm sure it will be a very touching ceremony.
 
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Savard18

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Where would you like me to email my resume of athletic accomplishments? You apparently really care what we think, you keep coming back for more.

It's a message board about the team, what do you want us to talk about? Ohhh did you see Daks give Blake his orange slices yesterday? So sweet of him! GTFO I'm not showing up as a team dad to watch my kids play. I pay to watch the product. Myself and everyone else here has an opinion on the team, we love to have constructive conversations, your IQ about the sport clearly isn't high enough to understand or participate in the conversations. That's okay, we can get you a participation trophy for signing up here.

I'm sure you say the same thing when talking about Michigan or Michigan State sports as well? Well Juwan is coaching the team really hard, he's trying! Did you see Tom Izzo yell at that kid? HOW DARE HIM! ITS A KID!!!!

Can I show up when you give everyone their participation trophies? I'm sure it will be a very touching ceremony.
Why even engage? You know your playing and coaching resume. It’s just the new TC, who’s sole contribution to the thread is never offer negative analysis and we should trade Tristan Bertucci and Marko Stojkov for Kocha Delic. Just let ‘em stay at the kids table until they wanna grow up. Or become Saginaw fans like the last one.

As far as playoffs go, I’m gonna cheer for them to win every game and hopefully fight their way into 7th. That’s still going to be a London or Saginaw matchup though and 5 games AT BEST. Will it help their development? Yeah. A little. If they miss the playoffs though, I’m ok with it. They’ll get a little more off-season rest and a higher draft pick. Will it help them going forward? Yeah. A little. dirty12 does bring up a valid point about recruiting though I think. Right now I kinda just want to see the absolute meltdown in Pennsylvania if Flint and Sarnia both make the playoffs. None of it will matter much though unless ownership/GM commit to following the proven model that every team that’s won an OHL title since the 15-16 Knights has used.
 
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