Post-Game Talk: Flames 3 - Jets 1

[Jets 31]

The last place you want Morrissey is killing penalties. He is way too important to our team, to put him in that many shot blocking situations. He already plays the most amount of minutes on the team, so giving him those extra hard minutes is just going to wear him down needlessly, with a big jump in injury risk.

Morrissey would be great on the PK but when he blocks a shot and gets hurt now our entire rest of our game gets weaker like you say. Morrissey is too important to lose.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

With Lowry out of the play and a 5on 3 you think it's the Jets system to then overload the puck leaving and you say Stanley to cover Huberdeau, Kuz and cut off the entire middle of the ice. I guess whe everything on the ice is Stanley's responsibility, everything is his fault.

Pionk should also stop standing infront of the guy with the puck, leaving Iafallo who is trailing the puck carrier to somehow stop him.

Just seems like you start with " it's Stanley's fault" then fill in the gaps after.

Unfortunately, you are the one changing the play... Lowry did his part with 86 and was then picked, Iafallo was not trailing the puck carrier he was pressuring him and it was a 4 on 3 because Lowry was covering the guy that picked him, just unable to get to Kuz...

You're making an analysis from a picture that is missing Blake Coleman.

Regardless, its still Stan's job not to overcommit and to read the play.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Morrissey would be great on the PK but when he blocks a shot and gets hurt now our entire rest of our game gets weaker like you say. Morrissey is too important to lose.

The argument is a bit jumbled now... I am not advocating Jomo as a permanent PK solution - but he is far far better than Stan. Miller also has a history of solid PK. Fleury has better footspeed.

My main point is that Stan on our PK unit come playoff time is a disaster waiting to happen - so third pairing DOES actually matter... I think a PK dman specialist is our most pressing need for trade deadline.

That being said, I thought Miller was a HUGE win at last TD and then we just didn't play him - so it all could be a moot point.

Bottom four of
Samberg-Risto
Miller-Pionk

Samberg-Pionk
Dumoulin-Miller

Just to be clear of what I would like to see.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Iafallo was pressuring Coleman who is just out of frame - I see we are now entering the 'blame anyone but Stan' part of the convo...

Huberdeau was never the puck carrier.

Lowry pressures 86 like he should, who dumps it to Coleman who Iafallo pressures like he should... Pionk has the puck side of the slot and unfortunately so does Stan...

Yup, Stan is 'fine' he's just not anticipating the play... watch Samberg on any PK and you will see the difference.

Not saying much as Samberg is a great defensive D. What you would like to see makes sense, just unlikely, based on usage so far.

What's up with Ehlers if he could finish on his breakaways he would have at least 10 more goals this season.

 

[TS Quint]

Unfortunately, you are the one changing the play... Lowry did his part with 86 and was then picked, Iafallo was not trailing the puck carrier he was pressuring him and it was a 4 on 3 because Lowry was covering the guy that picked him, just unable to get to Kuz...

You're making an analysis from a picture that is missing Blake Coleman.

Regardless, its still Stan's job not to overcommit and to read the play.

Lol, I didn't change anything or say Lowry did anything wrong. I said he was out of the play which he was. He was literally the closest player on the ice to the Flames goaltender. We agree on this. You are making things up.

I'm basing my analysis on the play, not a picture. You are making things up.

It's Stan's job to take the most dangerous player on the ice, not the guy standing at the blue line if you would watch the play. He did. What exactly are you saying he us supposed to do?

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Not saying much as Samberg is a great defensive D.

Its saying that I'd like to see the Jets win the cup... this isn't an argument for Heinola or Fleury over Stan - its an argument that 3D/PK2 is our biggest need at TD

@Jets 31 I'd also say the argument against Jomo on the PK is a bit misleading since Dallas plays Heiskanen on PK2 and both Hanifin/Petrangelo are on PK in Vegas... Andersson/Weegar on PK in Calgary... etc etc... all these teams are fkd if their top guy goes down from a blocked shot

 

[MyNameIsTaken]

Again, Stan takes over the board... but to me this image shows what is wrong with Stan.

No, the goal is not ONLY his fault - but in real time and in this picture, he's the only player not reacting to the play. Pionk is shifting over to cover Stan's guy and actually has better position to breakup the pass

If I am understanding our PK correctly, we would prefer Stan to be about 3-4 steps above his man - to prevent Kuz from having time to think... instead he blocks too early.

Yup its a nice pass, yup its a broken play - but Stan was the only guy not responding to that pass. And the only guy playing a passive PK.

If it was a 'one off' then shit happens but its a fairly consistent pattern on the PK... he plays passive while the rest of the PK is aggressive

a) aggressive for the sake of aggressive = not good, but also
B) I really don’t see what you are referring to as passive here? Is it that he didn’t close off the shooter fast enough? That you’d have liked to see him split the difference between the two weak side options more aggressively before the pass so he could maybe have been in the area for either pass?

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Lol, I didn't change anything or say Lowry did anything wrong. I said he was out of the play which he was. He was literally the closest player on the ice to the Flames goaltender. We agree on this. You are making things up.

I'm basing my analysis on the play, not a picture. You are making things up.

It's Stan's job to take the most dangerous player on the ice, not the guy standing at the blue line if you would watch the play. He did. What exactly are you saying he us supposed to do?

Ive said it before - you don't play man coverage on PK... Stan needed to be 3-4 steps up towards Kuz and in the passing lane - that is what we do on PK1

It was not 5 on 3 as you say Lowry was covering the left D - so thats a wash

Iafallo was not covering 'no one'

Please watch the play. Huberdeau never carried the puck as you say.

a) aggressive for the sake of aggressive = not good, but also
B) I really don’t see what you are referring to as passive here? Is it that he didn’t close off the shooter fast enough? That you’d have liked to see him split the difference between the two weak side options more aggressively before the pass so he could maybe have been in the area for either pass?

The answer to B is actually 'yes' - thats exactly how the Jets PK works... so he's 'pressuring' the shooter but mainly covering the pass - shooter still has the shot but he doesn't have all day to make a play.

Stan plays man coverage close to the crease... maybe Arniel wants that but its kind of the opposite of what Samberg does on PK1...

 

[Adam da bomb]

Its saying that I'd like to see the Jets win the cup... this isn't an argument for Heinola or Fleury over Stan - its an argument that 3D/PK2 is our biggest need at TD

@Jets 31 I'd also say the argument against Jomo on the PK is a bit misleading since Dallas plays Heiskanen on PK2 and both Hanifin/Petrangelo are on PK in Vegas... Andersson/Weegar on PK in Calgary... etc etc... all these teams are fkd if their top guy goes down from a blocked shot

Even bigger than centre? Or another top 6 forward?

 

[TS Quint]

Ive said it before - you don't play man coverage on PK... Stan needed to be 3-4 steps up towards Kuz and in the passing lane - that is what we do on PK1

It was not 5 on 3 as you say Lowry was covering the left D - so thats a wash

Iafallo was not covering 'no one'

Please watch the play. Huberdeau never carried the puck as you say.


The answer to B is actually 'yes' - thats exactly how the Jets PK works... so he's 'pressuring' the shooter but mainly covering the pass - shooter still has the shot but he doesn't have all day to make a play.

Stan plays man coverage close to the crease... maybe Arniel wants that but its kind of the opposite of what Samberg does on PK1...

I never said Huberdeau was carrying the puck, you made that up.

So Stan leaves Huberdeau who is in the most dangerous spot on the ice to cover the point man.....sure. SDS.

 

[Jets 31]

Its saying that I'd like to see the Jets win the cup... this isn't an argument for Heinola or Fleury over Stan - its an argument that 3D/PK2 is our biggest need at TD

@Jets 31 I'd also say the argument against Jomo on the PK is a bit misleading since Dallas plays Heiskanen on PK2 and both Hanifin/Petrangelo are on PK in Vegas... Andersson/Weegar on PK in Calgary... etc etc... all these teams are fkd if their top guy goes down from a blocked shot

True but i think Morrissey is so important to the Jets losing him would really hurt the Jets but i see what you are saying.

 

[KingBogo]

If you want to blame anyone … it’s Comrie. He should have been more out but seriously you cannot defend a perfect shot and that’s what it was.
The problem with Stanley it seems is his hockey IQ too slow to read the play and react. He seems to been out a position sometimes by taking the wrong man but in this case he played it right. You cover the 2nd guy and leave the shooter for the goalie.View attachment 963807

This is a good snap frame. Pionk and Stanley have there men perfectly blocked out. Both Lowry and Iafallo have no one.

 

[KingBogo]

Again, Stan takes over the board... but to me this image shows what is wrong with Stan.

No, the goal is not ONLY his fault - but in real time and in this picture, he's the only player not reacting to the play. Pionk is shifting over to cover Stan's guy and actually has better position to breakup the pass

If I am understanding our PK correctly, we would prefer Stan to be about 3-4 steps above his man - to prevent Kuz from having time to think... instead he blocks too early.

Yup its a nice pass, yup its a broken play - but Stan was the only guy not responding to that pass. And the only guy playing a passive PK.

If it was a 'one off' then shit happens but its a fairly consistent pattern on the PK... he plays passive while the rest of the PK is aggressive

Sorry man but you wrap yourself in a 1000 pretzels trying to explain your position. And no Stan should not be 3 or 4 steps in front of the forward in front of the net. That is his man. Players trailing the play belong to the forwards. If you expect defenseman to cover players trailing the play do you expect the forwards to block out players with net front position?

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

This is a good snap frame. Pionk and Stanley have there men perfectly blocked out. Both Lowry and Iafallo have no one.

Great snap frame because it leaves blake coleman out of the picture haha... so it fits your argument

Sorry man but you wrap yourself in a 1000 pretzels trying to explain your position. And no Stan should not be 3 or 4 steps in front of the forward in front of the net. That is his man. Players trailing the play belong to the forwards. If you expect defenseman to cover players trailing the play do you expect the forwards to block out players with net front position?

Explaining that this screenshot leaves out blake coleman is just the truth - not 100 pretzels.

If you want stan for the playoffs fine... i dont

 

[razorsedge]

I hope Comrie is getting a lot of dinners paid for by the players for laying eggs when he's in net. Win one for Eric needs to become a thing.

 

[10Ducky10]

Stan has been an adequate 3LHD the last few games.
That's about as positive as I can be.

He turns 27 in a few months, so he should be in his prime right about now. He is what he is and he isn't getting too much better.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I miss stumbles and iNana as they were able to talk bout more than Stan.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Stan has been an adequate 3LHD the last few games.
That's about as positive as I can be.

He turns 27 in a few months, so he should be in his prime right about now. He is what he is and he isn't getting too much better.

Which the jets think is good enough.

How bout that bottom line they can’t buy a goal.

 

[ennsjd07]

Only here, on this board, with this bunch of friends, do I get to nerd out this much on strategy (or the intangibles) of how hockey is played by my favorite team.
Thank y’all for putting 8 pages of tireless discussion together. I appreciate your commitment to “Stan is the problem” or “Corrie should have it.” Or “where is the run support?” Or “why does George Jetson even bring that up?” Or “why does Ehlers (Kupari etc) work so hard and they still can’t score?”
So many ideas. So many opinions. So many people caring deeply for their team.

Go Jerts Go.

 

[KingBogo]

Great snap frame because it leaves blake coleman out of the picture haha... so it fits your argument


Explaining that this screenshot leaves out blake coleman is just the truth - not 100 pretzels.

If you want stan for the playoffs fine... i dont

Never said I wanted Stan as a #6. Just defending that he played as you need a player to play and not expect them to something unrealistic just because you hate on them. There is no defensive PK in the world where you don’t want the weak side D to not pick up the player in front of the net which is their responsibility over any other player’s responsibility.

 

[Adam da bomb]

How bad is our 4th line at scoring! I mean in terms of dating terms they’d think ever month is November.
That’s right I’ll throw any line player under the bus to talk bout a new topic.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

 

[AlaskaJet]

Comrie cursed. But Bross would have won that game for us...

Wolf was good but Jets sniping was off... hungry but not hungry enough

Playoff style game - fun to watch.. but by the first intermission already felt like we were snakebit

Every good play that I saw Stan make turned out to be Samberg. Will be hard to believe that anyone can defend the pylon tonight...

Ehlers still flying, legit think Andrew Copp or Boone Jenner is the type of player to complement him... Lowry is close though.

Not sure what we'd have to lose by press boxing Perfetti and trying out Chib for a few games.

Becoming apparent that Kupari is not a 3C... would actually like to see what Gus can do on that line

Trade for a LHD PK specialist and this team is a cup contender - really rolling.

Really insightful and suggestive comparisons @BobTheSolarsystem!
I was thinking the same exact thing, just not completely all about Tree…
He has a good enough slapshot when he plays up even to mid-ice but his awkwardness in tight in our D-zone is an Achilles that really needs the forwards to get back fast.
Comrie wasn’t Broissoit, but he’s much improved..There is some hope at least.
He still needs to be kept slotted against the easy teams, at least to keep his confidence and remove him from any “Jonah” conversations.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I bet Heinola didn’t eat enough popcorn in the press box.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Never said I wanted Stan as a #6. Just defending that he played as you need a player to play and not expect them to something unrealistic just because you hate on them. There is no defensive PK in the world where you don’t want the weak side D to not pick up the player in front of the net which is their responsibility over any other player’s responsibility.

Its your choice to say i hate stan. I am merely pointing out how ive seen our PK operate this season. You have your version and thats fine.

You have a style that consistently portrays an opposing argument as extreme... like i remember when i irrationally 'hated' scheif - except now that he backchecks and is engaged my 'hatred' of that player doesnt seem to exist.