Proposal: FLA - MTL during the season; FLA - PIT - OTT after the season (text wall warning)

[kerrabria]

That is an accurate description of the proposal - Ottawa not giving up a first for a UFA. In this proposal, Ottawa is giving up a late round pick (typically refers to a 5th, 6th or 7th) for a player with one year left on his deal.

That said, I would do this no problem. As @stempniaksen says, though, if Tippett is that disposable, I would much rather make a move for him.

I mean if Tippet is such a disposable piece I'd hope the Sens would just give up something for him now rather than take on Zucker in the off-season.

From a Senators perspective, it's a ton of cap locked up at the teams position of strength. Value is fine, but that's rarely the most important factor when discussing Senators trades. I'd imagine they'd prefer to use their finite resources to shore up C/RD.

My OP is a pipe dream on an armchair GM board, but I do fully expect Tippett to be put on the auction block this summer. I'm not expecting more than a late 2nd Round Pick at the most, but unless Ottawa is the only one offering a draft pick before 64th Overall, I doubt we turn him over to a team within the division.

 

[YP44]

If the habs get offered that they should take it IMO. It is a fair amount of salary to retain on, but that is a good haul

 

[kerrabria]

To be frank I just don’t rate Hoffman that highly. Sure he’d probably help the power play but I don’t think that talent is the issue with the PP, rather the usage of the talent, and he’d probably do more harm than good 5v5. The main issue for me tho is Montours been really good for us, so getting rid of him for nothing in order to run a LD room of Forsling/Carlsson/Juolevi, which might be the worst LD group in the league, makes no sense.

We can agree to disagree on Hoffman. I think he could be a 25+ goal scorer for us again, and I'd expect he and Lundell to score 5v5. And I think the PP is really missing a half-wall sniper. Ekblad can theoretically plan there, but idk how likely we are to keep Barkov at the top of the umbrella long-term. That also means we still only have the one one-timer threat.

I can't abide that assessment of our D though. Montour has been awful in his own zone this year. He leads the team in penalties taken, and he's always out of position. For a guy who is supposed to be a dynamic offensive guy, he has a garbage first pass/stretch pass. He's our second highest paid d-man, and he's our 5D at best. I fully trust Forsling as our number one LHD, and I have no problem with running Carlsson and Juolevi as the junior partners for Weegar and Gudas in the bottom 4. And keep in mind, if we aren't satisfied with either of those two on the middle pair, we can always just return to a top 4 of Weegar - Ekblad, Forsling - Gudas, and then find a plug for the bottom pair RD.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We can agree to disagree on Hoffman. I think he could be a 25+ goal scorer for us again, and I'd expect he and Lundell to score 5v5. And I think the PP is really missing a half-wall sniper. Ekblad can theoretically plan there, but idk how likely we are to keep Barkov at the top of the umbrella long-term. That also means we still only have the one one-timer threat.

I can't abide that assessment of our D though. Montour has been awful in his own zone this year. He leads the team in penalties taken, and he's always out of position. For a guy who is supposed to be a dynamic offensive guy, he has a garbage first pass/stretch pass. He's our second highest paid d-man, and he's our 5D at best. I fully trust Forsling as our number one LHD, and I have no problem with running Carlsson and Juolevi as the junior partners for Weegar and Gudas in the bottom 4. And keep in mind, if we aren't satisfied with either of those two on the middle pair, we can always just return to a top 4 of Weegar - Ekblad, Forsling - Gudas, and then find a plug for the bottom pair RD.

If any team needs offensive help on the PP and someone with skating/vision, Hoffman is a good target. He's not a 5/5 beast and has to be paired up with a good 200' center but he's a bit underrated. He really was great with the Panthers when they had one of the best PP in the NHL. Panthers have slipped from a top 3 or top 5 PP to mid pack ever since Hoffman was let go.

 

[Dabeast]

We can agree to disagree on Hoffman. I think he could be a 25+ goal scorer for us again, and I'd expect he and Lundell to score 5v5. And I think the PP is really missing a half-wall sniper. Ekblad can theoretically plan there, but idk how likely we are to keep Barkov at the top of the umbrella long-term. That also means we still only have the one one-timer threat.

I can't abide that assessment of our D though. Montour has been awful in his own zone this year. He leads the team in penalties taken, and he's always out of position. For a guy who is supposed to be a dynamic offensive guy, he has a garbage first pass/stretch pass. He's our second highest paid d-man, and he's our 5D at best. I fully trust Forsling as our number one LHD, and I have no problem with running Carlsson and Juolevi as the junior partners for Weegar and Gudas in the bottom 4. And keep in mind, if we aren't satisfied with either of those two on the middle pair, we can always just return to a top 4 of Weegar - Ekblad, Forsling - Gudas, and then find a plug for the bottom pair RD.

Not that this chart says everything but it’s pretty clear to see that Forsling has been lagging behind the other 4 main dmen this season. Obviously if you stick him with Weegar he’d be fine, but the way to make that happen is by adding to the defense, not subtracting from it imo. I think that Carlsson/Juolevi leaves far too much unknown for a team that wants to cup

 

[beowulf]

Where to the Habs sign up for that deal?

 

[Twisted Sinister]

This trade works for me provided Hoffman's ok with it (since we just signed him). It's usually pretty taboo to trade recently signed UFAs in the first year of their contract

 

[TheNewEra]

Zuckers salary is below his cap hit. Sign Ottawa up

 

[Habs Halifax]

This trade works for me provided Hoffman's ok with it (since we just signed him). It's usually pretty taboo to trade recently signed UFAs in the first year of their contract

Hoffman came to the Habs thinking we were a bubble team trying to make the playoffs. Things have changed quickly so I think he's open to it. The only concern I have with this trade idea is you can only retain up to 3 contracts and I would leave those spots open for Price, Gallagher, and Petry. Those contracts are harder to move without retention. We can retain on Chiarot cause that only last till this off season

 

[YP44]

Hoffman came to the Habs thinking we were a bubble team trying to make the playoffs. Things have changed quickly so I think he's open to it. The only concern I have with this trade idea is you can only retain up to 3 contracts and I would leave those spots open for Price, Gallagher, and Petry. Those contracts are harder to move without retention. We can retain on Chiarot cause that only last till this off season

I doubt Montreal retains on more than 1 long term contract

 

[Habs Halifax]

I doubt Montreal retains on more than 1 long term contract

Hard to say and I can only speak to what I would do if we want to rebuild. I think Gorton would be more open to it than Bergevin who was emotionally tied to that old core.

Personally, my retention spots are kept for Price, Gallagher, Petry. I would retain on Chiarot though.

 

[kerrabria]

Not that this chart says everything but it’s pretty clear to see that Forsling has been lagging behind the other 4 main dmen this season. Obviously if you stick him with Weegar he’d be fine, but the way to make that happen is by adding to the defense, not subtracting from it imo. I think that Carlsson/Juolevi leaves far too much unknown for a team that wants to cup

When looking at advanced stats, yeah, Forsling has had a weak year, and Montour has done well. But, I think that those types of charts (comparing xGoals, Corsi...) distorts in favor of goal scoring defensemen.
NHL Team Advanced Stats

Play around with this tool, you'll see that defensive guys like Carlo, Martinez, Muzzin, Dumoulin, etc... are all rated as "Bad."
I don't want to start taking screenshots and stuff on my work computer (lol), but if you go to switch the chart to xGoals vs Corsi, you'll see that Weegar is our worst defenseman while Montour is by far our best. Forsling has been deployed in a very defensive way this year, and Montour scores a lot of goals for a blueliner. These types of charts favor him.

Looking at the eye-test, I trust Forsling in the d-zone, in transition, and in the o-zone. Montour is no doubt an offensive producer, but I don't trust him at all in his own zone, and he is redundant on the bottom pair when we have Ekblad and also Weegar and Carlsson making less.

But I can totally appreciate you not being a fan of the trade--it certainly would be a gamble and a leap of faith in Carlsson/Juolevi as reliable 5D / 6D quality guys based on minimal sample size.

 

[Beezeral]

Hell no to both deals for the Panthers.

There is a reason the Panthers 5 on 5 play is exponentially better now that Hoffman is gone.

 

[Maitz]

Hoffman is not worth a 1st, and also tippett. I would gladly trade him back to FLO for a 2nd

 

[Jerkbait]

to FLA: Hoffman (retained down to $3.5m)
to MTL: 1st Round Pick, Vatrano, Tippett, Gildon

Why FLA does it: We need to fix our power play. It just doesn't work. Hoffman will help that, and he scored a lot of goals with us last time around. It'd be amazing to have him locked up for the next few years at that cap hit. Vatrano and Tippett are almost certainly gone this offseason, so we exchange them early. Gildon is a good prospect, but we have Carlsson and Juolevi ahead of him and Ludvig and Kiersted behind him in the LHD pipeline.
Why MTL does it: They are in for a lengthy rebuild, so they don't need Hoffman or that extra $1m in cap space. The PIT - MN trade for Zucker a few years ago are a really good comparable.Top 6 winger Zucker had over three years left on his contract at $5.5m, and he went at the deadline for a 1st Round Pick, a pending UFA winger in Galchenyuk (Vatrano), and PIT's best d-prospect Addison (Gildon). The Panthers throw in Tippett because the Canadiens are in-division and retaining salary for several years. Also good for Montreal: they should get a mid-round pick in return for flipping Vatrano.

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THREE-WAY TRADE IN THE OFF-SEASON
FLA receives: a late round pick from each of PIT and OTT
PIT receives: Montour
OTT receives: Zucker

Why FLA does it: The Panthers are in for a terrible cap crunch this summer, courtesy of the worst year of Yandle's buyout. Montour is expendable as a $3.5m offensive d-man buried on the bottom pair and not necessarily playing on the PP.
Why PIT does it: Pittsburgh is in for a cap crunch themselves, and they are going to struggle to retain their most important UFAs. Zucker should be expendable compared to Malkin, Letang, Rust, Rodrigues, Carter (or finding another middle 6 C to replace him). They also have a thin right side, and Montour is a Sullivan defenseman. Highly mobile, offensive guy who is capable as a PPQB. They save $2m in cap while cashing in excess winger depth for bolstering their bottom 4.
Why OTT does it: Ottawa has cap ton of cap space, and their rebuild is supposed to be over. Zucker is a pending UFA who can provide middle 6 scoring depth for a year, and they can get him for next to nothing. Would imagine they'd be interested in a speedy 20+ goal scorer as they are currently among the lowest scoring teams in the league.

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A final proposal is finding a cap dump partner to pull an Orpik. A few years ago, the Capitals traded Brooks Orpik and Grubauer to the Avs for a 2nd Round Pick and the understanding that the Avs would buyout Orpik's final year, allowing the Caps to immediately sign him at a reduced cap.

The Panthers would like to find a partner to do the same for Hornqvist. His buyout would be two years at $1.7m. Orpik's buyout was $2.5m then $1.5m, so we'll offer a mid-round pick or something.

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Final product this offseason:

Verhaeghe - Barkov - Duclair
Huberdeau - Bennett - Reinhart
Hoffman - Lundell - Denisenko
Lomberg - Luostarinen - Hornqvist

Forsling/Carlsson - Ekblad
Carlsson/Forsling - Weegar
Juolevi - Gudas

Zucker will.be gone a long time before that plus its just not worth it.

 

[UED]

I don't think Hoffman has any value around the league. OTT almost gave him away to SJ who gave him away to Florida who let him go UFA and he could only find a 1 year deal before being let go to UFA by STL. I don't know this one for sure but I doubt he received many offers if he willingly chose to sign with Montreal, especially since we already had two Hoffmans on our team so we had no room for him anyway. As a Habs fan I think you could probably get him for much lower(maybe even for free or better).

 

[Ricck]

"to FLA: Hoffman (retained down to $3.5m)
to MTL: 1st Round Pick, Vatrano, Tippett, Gildon"

Lol you're crazy.

 

[kerrabria]

Hell no to both deals for the Panthers.

There is a reason the Panthers 5 on 5 play is exponentially better now that Hoffman is gone.

I think that has a lot more to do with us having Barkov - Bennett - Lundell - Luostarinen down the middle rather than Barkov - Wennberg - rookie Luostarinen - Lammikko

 

[Necrobutcher]

Way way WAY too much for one dimensional player like Hoffman and i hope they don't give up on Tippett so easily.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Way way WAY too much for one dimensional player like Hoffman and i hope they don't give up on Tippett so easily.

Stay away from the FLA board then, some are ready to cut bait after 79 career games despite the work put in to finetune his all around game.

He's not scoring on one of the deepest offensive teams so he's expendable.

 

[Mogo]

Are you high? Kerrabia are you a Panthers fan?

to FLA: Hoffman (retained down to $3.5m)
to MTL: 1st Round Pick, Vatrano, Tippett, Gildon

That has to be the one of the worst offers I've seen

I'm sure Hoffman can be had for a bag of pucks. Tippett, Gildon, 1rst???

He wont fix our PP. Just because he can one time it wont fix it. Yandle when he still had something left in him was his setup man

 

[VijayPatel11]

If Zito makes this deal it might just be the worst trade in Panthers history

 

[Russian Factor]

Bruh. Vatrano alone is borderline better than Hoffman

 

[SEALBound]

Just to clarify:

Zucker + 1st for Montour?

I can will as politely as possible tell you that every single Penguins fan in this known universe (well, the sane ones anyway) say no. And it's not a soft no either.

Holy...balls...

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Just to clarify:

Zucker + 1st for Montour?

I can will as politely as possible tell you that every single Penguins fan in this known universe (well, the sane ones anyway) say no. And it's not a soft no either.

Holy...balls...

The first trade has a 1st going to MTL

This is the 2nd trade below...essentially dumping Montour's deal for two late picks from MIN and PIT

THREE-WAY TRADE IN THE OFF-SEASON
FLA receives: a late round pick from each of PIT and OTT
PIT receives: Montour
OTT receives: Zucker