Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[iCanada]

Ah! I wondered if it would be specified as "party to the offence".

Curious they charged Macleod with both straight sex assault, and party to the offence of sex assault. Unless if there were two women involved he'd only ever get convicted of one or the other, but laying charges "in the alternative" can certainly happen.

Based on my understanding of the allegations, he both sexually assaulted her himself, and then aided / abetted the others in sexually assaulting her.

I would presume that those are separate charges and separate offenses, no?

 

[Melrose Munch]

How would that have made him avoid it? He is being accused of sexual assault....could have happened at college instead.

Fair enough. It's on the perpetrator at the end of the day.

 

[Bcap88]

My theory on the devils board is that McLeod is player 1 and the ring leader of this:

What we know so far:
Player 2 got separated from the group due to being underage and not allowed into the bar (formenton was underage at the time )
Player 2 and player 1 were roomates
A screen capture of mcleods instagram story was captured 6 hours after it being posted

The above posted picture was presented to police which was screen captured by an unknown person.

The two constants from the charges and the photo are formenton and McLeod.

Girl likely didn’t know mcleods name, looked up the wjc roster then found his instagram and used that as an identificatiom Photo

 

[Pink Mist]

I am not a lawyer. That said, I would expect heavier charges for "player 1", if anything. The way I am interpreting the charge is that there is less evidence against McLeod, or his conduct was different from the other 4, because it reads as an alternative lesser charge. Now, that doesn't exclude him from being that "player 1", but I do not think it clearly points in his direction.

It's a charge that can used for someone facilitating, planning the event, as well as an accessory before or after the fact.

That could point to McLeod being the player who originally had sex then texted the others to join, and then texted her the morning after to try to get her to not go to police .

He was also charged with sexual assault like the others

 

[Yukon Joe]

Based on my understanding of the allegations, he both sexually assaulted her himself, and then aided / abetted the others in sexually assaulting her.

I would presume that those are separate charges and separate offenses, no?

I mean - typically, if you start beating someone, take a break, then start beating them again 5 minutes later you'll get charged with one count assault, not two. And it's definitely not the case that each individual punch of blow is a separate count.

Sometimes laypeople can get caught up in the number of charges - like 100 counts is worse than 1. WHen it comes time for sentencing though the court just tries to assess the overall seriousness of the conduct and sentence accordingly, and not just tally up how many counts or charges there are.

 

[Golden_Jet]

probably 176 or 178

Ya not in those but don’t worry about it,
Poster on this page posted this in response to looking for article. Apparently they didn’t threaten her, like you said,
I thought I might have missed an article.

In the globe article she mentioned that the guys were joking about using golf clubs for sexual acts and they were all laughing about it. I mistook the threatening with golf clubs as one or more of the players threatened to beat her with them if she tried to leave.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I mean - typically, if you start beating someone, take a break, then start beating them again 5 minutes later you'll get charged with one count assault, not two. And it's definitely not the case that each individual punch of blow is a separate count.

Sometimes laypeople can get caught up in the number of charges - like 100 counts is worse than 1. WHen it comes time for sentencing though the court just tries to assess the overall seriousness of the conduct and sentence accordingly, and not just tally up how many counts or charges there are.

And I’ve found that when there is that many charges, or basically more than one count of the same charge, it’s more to actually get a conviction of it. It’s “easy” to cast doubt on one charge (for example, a sucker punch), but becomes a bit harder on 10 punches.

 

[iCanada]

Ya not in those but don’t worry about it,
Poster on this page posted this in response to looking for article. Apparently they didn’t threaten her, like you said,
I thought I might have missed an article.

In the globe article she mentioned that the guys were joking about using golf clubs for sexual acts and they were all laughing about it. I mistook the threatening with golf clubs as one or more of the players threatened to beat her with them if she tried to leave.

Idk man, the threat is implied just by the situation at large.

Why would they be holding golf clubs at all if they didn't have a use for them?

 

[theVladiator]

It's a charge that can used for someone facilitating, planning the event, as well as an accessory before or after the fact.

That could point to McLeod being the player who originally had sex then texted the others to join, and then texted her the morning after to try to get her to not go to police .

He was also charged with sexual assault like the others

Thanks, I see how inviting others can lead to such a charge. I guess the question is whether it is seen as additional or alternative charge.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Hart and McLeod will carve out European careers at the very least, they are fantastic.

Maybe Europe ya. Lots of guys with issues head overseas and Formenton was already there.

I was only referring to the NHL as that's the only hockey I pay attention to and honestly didn't even consider elsewhere.

 

[robertmac43]

Hart and McLeod will carve out European careers at the very least, they are fantastic.

That involves being able to leave the country, there is a chance the charges lead to them losing their passports for the time being.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

That involves being able to leave the country, there is a chance the charges lead to them losing their passports for the time being.

Even if they don’t have to surrender their passports, other countries can simply refuse them entry.

 

[Danarqhy]

Ya not in those but don’t worry about it,
Poster on this page posted this in response to looking for article. Apparently they didn’t threaten her, like you said,
I thought I might have missed an article.

In the globe article she mentioned that the guys were joking about using golf clubs for sexual acts and they were all laughing about it. I mistook the threatening with golf clubs as one or more of the players threatened to beat her with them if she tried to leave.

If the act is not welcomed, that is a threat. And there is no reason to believe that she was dying to have a golf club or 5 rammed up her orifices.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Wasn’t that more like a riot?

That was part of it. Other crazy shit went down there...

 

[Melrose Munch]

Ya not in those but don’t worry about it,
Poster on this page posted this in response to looking for article. Apparently they didn’t threaten her, like you said,
I thought I might have missed an article.

In the globe article she mentioned that the guys were joking about using golf clubs for sexual acts and they were all laughing about it. I mistook the threatening with golf clubs as one or more of the players threatened to beat her with them if she tried to leave.

Why would they be holding them? I don't see the need to pick apart her story, we're not defence lawyers.

If the act is not welcomed, that is a threat. And there is no reason to believe that she was dying to have a golf club or 5 rammed up her orifices.

Exactly.

Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

So what would you describe it as? Because threatening a woman with golf clubs after a rape is an action of a gang. I know you like to play the devil's advocate, so don't hold back. We have names now. Simple. The money. Socioeconomic factors change things. The social dynamics of gangs...

forums.hfboards.com

The globe article is here.

 

[LOFIN]

Hart and McLeod will carve out European careers at the very least, they are fantastic.

Their options are severely limited in Europe as well. Not that many teams want to deal with a PR nightmare like this. There is this one club in Slovakia though that got Mitchell Miller and Severi Lahtinen, a Finnish player who got convicted of rape recently though...

 

[Golden_Jet]

If the act is not welcomed, that is a threat. And there is no reason to believe that she was dying to have a golf club or 5 rammed up her orifices.

No
I was told it was in the police report, and it wasn’t. That’s what I commented on, nothing else.

Here is what I commented on, as I hadn’t read this,

It's in the police report that according to the victim, they threatened her with golf clubs.

 

[Bcap88]

It's a charge that can used for someone facilitating, planning the event, as well as an accessory before or after the fact.

That could point to McLeod being the player who originally had sex then texted the others to join, and then texted her the morning after to try to get her to not go to police .

He was also charged with sexual assault like the others

It could also mean he took part in the consensual encounter, texted the players to come to his room and then also took part in the non consensual portion. Which would line up with one of the counts matching the other 4 players and the additional account

 

[Melrose Munch]

No
I was told it was in the police report, and it wasn’t. That’s what I commented on, nothing else.

Here is what I commented on, as I hadn’t read this,

It's in the police report that according to the victim, they threatened her with golf clubs.

It's called an implied threat. You're trying to split hairs. If that is what she felt, how do you dispute otherwise?

 

[theVladiator]

Ah! I wondered if it would be specified as "party to the offence".

Curious they charged Macleod with both straight sex assault, and party to the offence of sex assault. Unless if there were two women involved he'd only ever get convicted of one or the other, but laying charges "in the alternative" can certainly happen.

I thought so too, but others have pointed out that the initial act of inviting others is actually incitement/encouragement to the sexual assault that followed. So hypothetically MacLeod would first be inciting the offense (hence the abetting "party of the offense" charge), and then also taking part in the sexual assault itself (the other charge). If that's the way it's interpreted, he could be convicted of both charges, no?

 

[HolyCrap]

I feel like this needs to be posted again:

I watched this yesterday and thought it really needed to be posted here but I have no idea how. Thank you. Lol.

 

[Bcap88]

I thought so too, but others have pointed out that the initial act of inviting others is actually incitement/encouragement to the sexual assault that followed. So hypothetically MacLeod would first be inciting the offense (hence the abetting "party of the offense" charge), and then also taking part in the sexual assault itself (the other charge). If that's the way it's interpreted, he could be convicted of both charges, no?

Yes he could get convicted of both because it’s likely a different subsection to the statute.
Not too familiar with Canadien law but that’s how American law normally works

 

[Golden_Jet]

It's called an implied threat. You're trying to split hairs. If that is what she felt, how do you dispute otherwise?

I wasn’t splitting hairs , just trying to read about what you said, then poster told me that wasn’t what was said.

All you had to do, was say what was actually said in the report. Would of saved me 5 minutes of posting.

 

[red devil]

 

[M88K]

I feel like this needs to be posted again:

The delivery on the whole "if she says no, obviously means no, but she's not gonna say no because of the (More ominous tone) Implication" is fantastic.