Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Foppberg]

I've idolized the NHL through Hockey Night in Canada, going to many games, meeting my heros when I was young, teaching my kids about the history, spending a lot on merch, etc. For over 50 years this game has been poetic for me as a player, father, coach, and fan.

I'm pretty much finished thinking (dreaming?) anything positive about our hockey culture here, the ridiculous non transparency - and outright unlawful - actions from. Hockey Canada, and the blatant cover ups and looking away from the NHL.

I'll always watch, play, and love this sport. But these allegations, check that, maybe not just these allegations but everything else dirty from different organizations that these incidents are unveiling, have disgusted me so much that I wouldn't even be opposed to tearing down not only HC but the whole junior and professional systems if all that is said to be true actually is. A reset is needed.

I mean… welcome to sports. Every league has a nasty underbelly like this.

It’s f***ed up, but it’s true.

 

[93LEAFS]

NHL/PA can’t terminate the contracts without some legal issues if any of them are found innocent by some miracle. So until then, at best they’re likely on leave without pay or suspended from their teams in some way.

Also I was also wondering how this went from 8 players to 5. Even with the group chat, you would think the other names would be mentioned in some way. London Police doing a Mickey Mouse job the first time and then being pressured to look into it again after Hockey Canada got found out for being trash is mostly London Police trying to save face and actually doing their job vs “Just boys being boys, they already handled it with the pay out.”

So many want to toe the line of “innocent until proven guilty” but from what has been reported - the players don’t argue what they did, they argue the consent portion which is already being blown up by the witness facts that we know due to some reporters getting that info out there already from the initial news blowing up what had happened.

It’s funny for the hockey world to see these sicko’s and how hockey has a reckoning due for sexual assault and other incidents and yet they allow so many players with a disgusting past to still remain in the NHL, hell even let the Habs draft one.

Everyone who has been charged contract expires at the end of the year. The league isn't getting into a pissing match with the PA over what amounts to something like 4.2m split between 3 teams. They don't want to bring even more attention to it.

If someone had a deal that extended past this year, and it had serious money on it, we might see an attempt to terminate by a team. But, considering all these guys deals expire, and the organizations can just not qualify them in June/July.

They likely just get paid out for the remainder of the year, and never see an NHL contract again.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Everyone who has been charged contract expires at the end of the year. The league isn't getting into a pissing match with the PA over what amounts to something like 4.2m split between 3 teams. They don't want to bring even more attention to it.

If someone had a deal that extended past this year, and it had serious money on it, we might see an attempt to terminate by a team. But, considering all these guys deals expire, and the organizations can just not qualify them in June/July.

They likely just get paid out for the remainder of the year, and never see an NHL contract again.

Then there’s no issue there, if they are all done with their contracts at the end of this, then they can piss off to jail.

 

[Spargon]

I've idolized the NHL through Hockey Night in Canada, going to many games, meeting my heros when I was young, teaching my kids about the history, spending a lot on merch, etc. For over 50 years this game has been poetic for me as a player, father, coach, and fan.

I'm pretty much finished thinking (dreaming?) anything positive about our hockey culture here, the ridiculous non transparency - and outright unlawful - actions from. Hockey Canada, and the blatant cover ups and looking away from the NHL.

I'll always watch, play, and love this sport. But these allegations, check that, maybe not just these allegations but everything else dirty from different organizations that these incidents are unveiling, have disgusted me so much that I wouldn't even be opposed to tearing down not only HC but the whole junior and professional systems if all that is said to be true actually is. A reset is needed.

While I don't disagree with your sentiment. But if the thought of this stuff upsets you so much (and rightfully so) and you think stopping support is the way to go. You better not support any sports team of any league, any politician of any party, any large corporations etc. Guaranteed they ALL have stuff like this or way way worse hiding, this just happened to come out. Rich people of privilege (regardless of colour) like to think rules don't apply to them and they can do whatever they want and buy themselves out of consequence.

 

[JoVel]

It'd be nice if they could never return to Canada, assuming they are guilty. AFTER their sentence is completed. We need fewer predators, not more.

Canada has a lot of cold and empty land that could be put to good use here.

 

[Konnan511]

NHL/PA can’t terminate the contracts without some legal issues if any of them are found innocent by some miracle.

Source?

 

[Indrid Cold]

I mean… welcome to sports. Every league has a nasty underbelly like this.

It’s f***ed up, but it’s true.

This. And I am not sure what the percentage of players who have never been charged with sexual assault, but I assume it's pretty high.....

 

[4thline]

I could be wrong (haven't followed this super closely), but isn't this the case where they got a video recording of her "consenting"? So it's not a matter of teaching them that consent is important, as they clearly knew and attempted to cover their asses.

No, but it's a matter of teaching them (and all young men) what consent *is*.

Consent *is* the expression of a person fully willing and desiring to engage in what ever acts with you.

Consent *is not* a barrier to be overcome between you and the sex you want.

Somewhere along the way the message is getting lost and it's resulted in people that think consent is a box to be checked on the path to sex, rather than a state of genuine willingness and desire- and the result is them working hard to check that box- whining, wheedling, pressuring, gaslighting, "seducing", coercing, pressuring, and thinking that it's all ok as long as the box gets checked- but it's not.

 

[Strangle]

While I don't disagree with your sentiment. But if the thought of this stuff upsets you so much (and rightfully so) and you think stopping support is the way to go. You better not support any sports team of any league, any politician of any party, any large corporations etc. Guaranteed they ALL have stuff like this or way way worse hiding, this just happened to come out. Rich people of privilege (regardless of colour) like to think rules don't apply to them and they can do whatever they want and buy themselves out of consequence.

It really seems like if someone wants to stop supporting due to their feelings about this kind of behavior, they would need to really be on top of what’s happened with this stuff over time.

No movies, no video games, a lot of big companies and organizations have a myriad of issues relating to assault, etc

Unfortunately it’s not just a hockey Canada issue. I think we as Canadians are especially disappointed because we thought more highly of our own morals and default to these being more American problems that they deal with and we just aren’t like Americans, our kids aren’t American kids and our athletes and businesses aren’t like American athletes and businesses.

It’s a bit of a reckoning going on in some people maybe coming to realize that these are our problems too.

Many people allowed the Kokanee groper story to go away, while “grab her by the p***y” still gets referenced today.

Our world leaders aren’t even any better than the American ones. Tough pill to swallow

 

[Fatass]

Everyone who has been charged contract expires at the end of the year. The league isn't getting into a pissing match with the PA over what amounts to something like 4.2m split between 3 teams. They don't want to bring even more attention to it.

If someone had a deal that extended past this year, and it had serious money on it, we might see an attempt to terminate by a team. But, considering all these guys deals expire, and the organizations can just not qualify them in June/July.

They likely just get paid out for the remainder of the year, and never see an NHL contract again.

Yup. Even if found not guilty, these guys would bring way too much negative press to any club if signed. They end up in the K.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

I mean… welcome to sports. Every league has a nasty underbelly like this.

It’s f***ed up, but it’s true.

When do the parents take some responsibility? It's not gonna get any better with the new wave of not punishing your kids for intolerable behaviour at a young age but instead coddling them so they think they can get away with it later on in life.

 

[lakeshirts37]

Here's the thing. Hockey fans love to point out how worse other sports are but bring up their problems and they deflect. Do any of these sports have the management along with the corruption the way the NHL and hockey do? You know the answer to that. It's not just about the arrests.

uhhh NCAA football and basketball

 

[saintunspecified]

I mean… welcome to sports. Every league has a nasty underbelly like this.

It’s f***ed up, but it’s true.

Welcome to *elite* sports, you mean.

One thing I'd very much like to know is how these guys came up with the idea to make a "consent" video. How much of this was planned? And what experiences had they had that would lead them to believe that this was okay. Because as bad as ordinary misogyny is, there are layers beyond that which are not ordinary.

 

[lakeshirts37]

I mean… welcome to sports. Every league has a nasty underbelly like this.

It’s f***ed up, but it’s true.

welcome to *life

 

[saintunspecified]

When do the parents take some responsibility? It's not gonna get any better with the new wave of not punishing your kids for intolerable behaviour at a young age but instead coddling them so they think they can get away with it later on in life.

Part of it is parenting, but part of it isn't. That's why stuff like this is a bigger issue in *elite* sports, because really only in those cases do parents relinquish supervision over their kids to coaches and programs. There are good parents, and there are bad parents - that will always be the case & that applies to everyone elite athlete or not, but pointing at parenting as the primary concern here seems to me a way to let youth hockey organizations off the hook.

AND I believe that preventing abuse by youth athletes involves most of the same methods and principles as preventing abuse of youth athletes.

 

[MasterofGrond]

When do the parents take some responsibility? It's not gonna get any better with the new wave of not punishing your kids for intolerable behaviour at a young age but instead coddling them so they think they can get away with it later on in life.

That's hardly a "new wave". As far back as human history goes, privilege as a conduit to bad behavior is right there. Claiming otherwise is nothing but "back in my day, things were better" revisionism.

Only difference between now and the past is there's even less excuse for it in a world of mass communication and information.

 

[Strangle]

Welcome to *elite* sports, you mean.

One thing I'd very much like to know is how these guys came up with the idea to make a "consent" video. How much of this was planned? And what experiences had they had that would lead them to believe that this was okay. Because as bad as ordinary misogyny is, there are layers beyond that which are not ordinary.

I think that’s the easiest of the questions to answer

“Hey, bro this shit is totally f***ed up. You sure this is okay? I see stuff like this on the news”

“Ya it’s fine, she’s into it, look I’ll ask her”

“Um…. I don’t know, she’s drunk and this feels too far”

“Hey, look into the camera and say you’re okay with this”

Obviously not what happened, but I’m sure something along these lines. Someone obvious knew what they were doing was f***ed up and trying to cover their tracks or convince someone else, etc

 

[iCanada]

Who is the biggest loser out of the 3 NHL teams?

Devils-2 players
Flyers-best player
Flames-foot in mouth

I'm going to say it's not the millionaire sports franchise, but the victim whose life was because impacted by the alleged crime.

 

[joestevens29]

Welcome to *elite* sports, you mean.

One thing I'd very much like to know is how these guys came up with the idea to make a "consent" video. How much of this was planned? And what experiences had they had that would lead them to believe that this was okay. Because as bad as ordinary misogyny is, there are layers beyond that which are not ordinary.

Not sure why you keep saying *elite* sports.

Only reason we are hearing so much about this one is it was because it was a main sport at a high level in Canada. Don't kid yourself there are scandals at all sorts of levels of all sorts of sports across the world.

 

[Jaska]

These kids didn't have parents to tell them the difference between right and wrong? It's not Hockey Canada's job to teach that.

 

[saintunspecified]

I think that’s the easiest of the questions to answer

“Hey, bro this shit is totally f***ed up. You sure this is okay? I see stuff like this on the news”

“Ya it’s fine, she’s into it, look I’ll ask her”

“Um…. I don’t know, she’s drunk and this feels too far”

“Hey, look into the camera and say you’re okay with this”

Obviously not what happened, but I’m sure something along these lines. Someone obvious knew what they were doing was f***ed up and trying to cover their tracks or convince someone else, etc

In my experience, there's a huge difference between discussing an illicit plan in an off-hand hypothetical way vs. an intentional + methodical way. Anyone who has, for example, gone from merely considering to planning something even as small as an act of petty vandalism realizes that.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Who is the biggest loser out of the 3 NHL teams?

Devils-2 players
Flyers-best player
Flames-foot in mouth

The most embarrassing is the Devils, mostly because they signed Cal Foote this offseason when this was already percolating. Signing a guy involved in this is a bad look, but it’s an especially bad look when he’s a useless AHL plug. All downside, zero upside.

 

[joestevens29]

These kids didn't have parents to tell them the difference between right and wrong? It's not Hockey Canada's job to teach that.

Their mandate/mission statement sure says otherwise when you read the whole thing.

Mandate & Mission – Who is Hockey Canada?

Hockey Canada's mission to to Lead, Develop and Promote Positive Hockey Experiences.

www.hockeycanada.ca

 

[lakeshirts37]

It really seems like if someone wants to stop supporting due to their feelings about this kind of behavior, they would need to really be on top of what’s happened with this stuff over time.

No movies, no video games, a lot of big companies and organizations have a myriad of issues relating to assault, etc

Unfortunately it’s not just a hockey Canada issue. I think we as Canadians are especially disappointed because we thought more highly of our own morals and default to these being more American problems that they deal with and we just aren’t like Americans, our kids aren’t American kids and our athletes and businesses aren’t like American athletes and businesses.

It’s a bit of a reckoning going on in some people maybe coming to realize that these are our problems too.

Many people allowed the Kokanee groper story to go away, while “grab her by the p***y” still gets referenced today.

Our world leaders aren’t even any better than the American ones. Tough pill to swallow

very naive of you RE canada vs usa

 

[saintunspecified]

Not sure why you keep saying *elite* sports.

Because factors are in play in elite sports that are very often not in play in non-elite youth sports. There is a whole industry of merely aspirational elite sports (i.e. the travel team explosion), so if you're referring to that, I guess I agree.

The more people who are involved who care about kids as kids & not as prospects, the less opportunity for hazing, abuse, learning abuse, etc.

And, this should be obvious, but kids who are elite athletes have much more to lose by reporting abuse by teammates or coaches than kids who aren't. Similar factors apply to coaches, organizations, etc. The incentives for coverups are not the same across the board.