Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Price is Wright]

Can someone explain why 32 teams refused to sign Alex Formenton two years ago? He refused to sign in Ottawa and nobody wanted to trade for him. I would say that's 32 teams rejecting him. For hockey playing reasons? Contract demand too high?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

If you'd gotten here about three hours ago, you *might* have been one of the first fifty people to joke about this.

Oh so now you’re gatekeeping comedy too huh?

Where does this guy get off

 

[Grifter3511]

Can we speculate now?

It's never a good idea to speculate. You can now discuss the five players who have been named, because that isn't speculation. But don't speculate.

 

[Ezekial]

If you'd gotten here about three hours ago, you *might* have been one of the first fifty people to joke about this.

The first one was a banger tho

 

[Da McBomb]

I didn't see this myself, but I read on a message board that a couple nights after Dube filed for leave of absence due to mental illness, the Flames broadcast crew were patting their own backs (the Flames) and complimenting the Flames for being so great with how they handle Mental illness with the Kylington AND Dube situations. Like seriously?

 

[Some Other Flame]

What disciplinary powers does the NHL have at its disposal?​

Gary Bettman has wide-ranging power to discipline players for off-ice misconduct under Article 18-A of the collective bargaining agreement.

In fact, the CBA specifically spells out the NHL commissioner’s ability to suspend a player who is facing a criminal investigation. The CBA grants the commissioner the ability to opt for a preemptive suspension in cases “where the failure to suspend the Player during this period would create a substantial risk of material harm to the legitimate interests and/or reputation of the League.”

Bettman opted to use that power in October 2014 after Los Angeles defenseman Slava Voynov was arrested on suspicion of domestic violence. Voynov was suspended with pay by the NHL within hours of his arrest and never played another game in the league. His contract was eventually terminated by the Kings in September 2015 after he was released from a detention center and elected to return home to Russia rather than face U.S. deportation proceedings.


However, suspensions like those are entirely at the discretion of the commissioner.

What power do individual clubs have to act in these situations?​

In addition to Bettman acting in these matters, individual clubs can also seek to terminate contracts for what they deem to be a material breach by a player. The standard for what constitutes a breach isn’t expressly defined. While the standard player’s contract calls for a player “to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally.”


Standard player’s contracts also allow individual NHL clubs to “establish reasonable rules governing the conduct and conditioning of the Player.”

However, in the event the player violates those rules, the punishment is limited to a “reasonable fine” or suspension from the team.

We’ve seen a number of different reasons cited as a material breach of an NHL contract over the last few years. Earlier this season, for example, the Chicago Blackhawks terminated the contract of Corey Perry after the club deemed he “engaged in conduct that is unacceptable, and in violation of both the terms of his standard player’s contract and the Blackhawks’ internal policies intended to promote professional and safe work environments.”

What can the NHL do when a player is charged with a crime?

Here’s what the CBA and Gary Bettman’s past actions reveal about the penalties players charged with a crime could face in the NHL.

theathletic.com

 

[theslatcher]

If you'd gotten here about three hours ago, you *might* have been one of the first fifty people to joke about this.

So why male models?

 

[francis246]

No it won’t, that would not be admissible lol

How would that not be admissible. That settlement happened. It’s going to come up as part of the litigation on both sides. Probably the crown using it to say why would Hockey Canada settle something these players are saying didn’t happen. The defense saying money is a factor to why this case was being reopened.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

How would that not be admissible. That settlement happened. It’s going to come up as part of the litigation on both sides. Probably the crown using it to say why would Hockey Canada settle something these players are saying didn’t happen. The defense saying money is a factor to why this case was being reopened.

That’s just now how it works at all, firstly because settlement privilege exists and second because criminal court isn’t just lawyers bringing stuff up

There are rules of evidence

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I didn't see this myself, but I read on a message board that a couple nights after Dube filed for leave of absence due to mental illness, the Flames broadcast crew were patting their own backs (the Flames) and complimenting the Flames for being so great with how they handle Mental illness with the Kylington AND Dube situations. Like seriously?

The broadcast team has no knowledge of what's going on with HR. What point are you trying to make?

 

[HBK27]

Hands are kind of tied in the case of players with contracts until some action is actually taken. In the case of McLeod and Foote I think it’s fair to ask why they received contracts recently.

They both received 1 year contracts this past offseason. Were GM's all just supposed to blackball any player that might've been involved, just in case? Recall that there were other names beyond this 5 that were rumored to have potentially been involved - guess they should've taken a hit as well?

Also, this is the 2nd investigation into this alleged incident and the 1st one didn't result in any charges - you think GM's were certain this one would?

There's no perfect way to handle this situation, but can't really fault GM's for moving forward cautiously (thus only the 1 year
deals) while the investigation played out versus presuming guilt and taking their own action to be judge and jury and toss the guys out of the league.

 

[LOFIN]

My guess: the teams will suspend them without pay, and just not qualify them when their contracts are up in the summer. Would be the easiest way to do it. Terminating a contract without a criminal conviction, as serious as this is, could be grounds for the NHLPA to challenge. However, I don't think suspending without pay is out of the realm of possibility given the seriousness of the charges.

 

[wetcoast]

At the risk of getting political...

Trump hasn't been convicted of anything. He was found liable in a civil trial.

Unless you're talking about Bill Cosby - but he's spent jail time for "rape", so I'm pretty sure he suffered a negative impact.

(note: I don't think this was political - just stating as a fact what has, and has not, happened to Trump and Cosby)

I wasn't getting political ical just wondering if people were going to be consistent and yes the judge did rule on the factual evidence of rape.

 

[RegDunlop]

Tough to say really. Some of these guys had on ice struggles over their careers already that could be in part from what happened that night getting to them. Really have no evidence one way or another if this was them simply carrying on their lives or if it was having an effect on them

There won't be much of an apology tour if guilty. They'll be in jail

Yeah I was reaching with that. I don't know how or if they're remorseful or not.

Unfortunately I've been part of the 'culture' however before it got this... way. These 5 if guilty are disgusting human beings. However what is sadder to me is that they were only following the protocol that they grew up in and followed others.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

In general, to cover your own ass, why would anyone ever plead guilty off the hop? When/if charges were reduced, maybe.

That's my point, Rick posting that Tweet about Mclode pleading not guilty was pointless because we all knew he was going to plead not guilty, they all will, that's not news.

 

[Yukon Joe]

How would that not be admissible. That settlement happened. It’s going to come up as part of the litigation on both sides. Probably the crown using it to say why would Hockey Canada settle something these players are saying didn’t happen. The defense saying money is a factor to why this case was being reopened.

So sexual assault is a tricky area, with lots of restrictions on what you can ask a complainant. Primarily this covers the complainants prior sexual activity (so, to be crude, defence can't argue that "well she's a slut who sleeps with lots of men so she must have consented this time"). This is covered in s, 276 of the Criminal Code.

That being said - if defence wants to try and argue "you're making this up to get money" - I think that would be allowed. Whether it would be a good strategy is a different idea (humbly, defence counsel on sexual assaults are often better off just trying to tease out inconsistencies and unreliability from the complainant, rather than a full on frontal assault of claiming they're lying).

 

[GrumpyKoala]

Can someone explain why 32 teams refused to sign Alex Formenton two years ago? He refused to sign in Ottawa and nobody wanted to trade for him. I would say that's 32 teams rejecting him. For hockey playing reasons? Contract demand too high?

Is it clear that teams did not show interest or he just wanted to get away from being too close to the nhl?

This whole thing might had take way longer than even the players expected it to blowout.

 

[Habby4Life]

Westhead said trial isn’t expected until 2026. There is no way any team puts them in the lineup before the criminal proceedings are completed.

Their NHL careers are over. Now they have to face possible jail sentences.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

It's never a good idea to speculate. You can now discuss the five players who have been named, because that isn't speculation. But don't speculate.

I speculate that you are speculating on the motive of his question.

 

[Edgelord]

I wasn't getting optical just wondering if people were going to be consistent and yes the judge did rule on rape.

it was a civil trial, completely different than what this will be.
It was he said/she said with 0 evidence outside of that.
In this instance being a criminal trial that would most likely not be a winnable trial

 

[Yukon Joe]

I wasn't getting optical just wondering if people were going to be consistent and yes the judge did rule on rape.

Yes - but my point was that was a civil trial, and thus it's not a conviction.

This is important because the standard of proof on criminal matters versus civil matters is very different.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Westhead said trial isn’t expected until 2026. There is no way any team puts them in the lineup before the criminal proceedings are completed.

Their NHL careers are over. Now they have to face possible jail sentences.

This is why the KHL was created

 

[Yukon Joe]

it was a civil trial, completely different than what this will be.
It was he said/she said with 0 evidence outside of that.
In this instance being a criminal trial that would most likely no be a winnable trial

I agree with your first two sentences, and disagree with the third.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

I mean it has been a pretty drawn out process. Ridiculous that it has taken this long to come to a decision on if to prosecute these guys.

With that said, you would have to think that the police have some pretty damning evidence for trial. No longer a he said she said situation.

Don’t want to speculate on the guilt or innocence of these guys because they deserve their day in court.

But from a team perspective, almost dumb to make a hasty judgement and terminate contracts. Especially Hart. Flyers would look like fools if it comes to light Hart played no part, was innocent, and was released from the Flyers.

If they are guilty of it, does it matter if their contracts are terminated today or when it happens? Either way it 100% will and the scum bags of the group (or entire group) will get to worry about their next steps in life from a jail cell more than likely.

Talk about lighting your life on fire with one stupid decision.

I think if you're one of the players charged here, your days in the NHL are probably cooked regardless if you're found guilty or innocent. Even circumstantially, the absolutely best case scenario of how this could play out in court for the players, it still makes them pretty radioactive. People can debate if that's fair or not but they'll never be able to escape the questions of what were all those players doing in the room with a drunk person in the first place among a variety of other questions that would never be fully answered in court. It's journalistic malpractice to not ask those questions. No team is going to want to clean up that mess for them. Whether they're contracts are shredded or just not renewed, one way or another, I wouldn't bet on seeing any of them on an NHL team ever again.

 

[Habby4Life]

This is why the KHL was created

If they are allowed to leave the country??