OT: Fitness and Nutrition Part V

[Cobra Commander]

I ate a T-Bone and it was freaking delicious and i feel fantastic and full of energy

Good for you, ask your colon how it feels.

 

[DAChampion]

. All the biggest strongest longest living land mammals eat plant based.

Elephants put on a lot of muscle via a vegan diet.
They eat roughly ~400 pounds of food a day. Even though there's comparatively little protein in grass, they consume a lot of grass (and other vegetation) and thus they get enough protein.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Guys,

We're tired of editing posts and deleting content. It's a nutrition thread. If you can't handle basic discussions you're going to be removed. Last warning on this. Threadbans and infractions start now.

 

[BeastMode420]

Good for you, ask your colon how it feels

My colon doing great

 

[Cobra Commander]

My colon doing great

Great to hear, i hope it stays very healthy and you live a long and healthy life, i really mean that.

I understand that you wanna eat meat and that's fine, it's your body and your choice, but an innocent animal was tortured and killed in the process and that doesn't sit well with many people, it's just not a very nice thing to do to rub it in a Vegan's face, again i understand that you consider it your food but it's the animal cruelty aspect of it that hurts people's feelings. Go ahead and eat it, just maybe try and be a little more compassionate to the animal cruelty part of it if you could.

 

[Mrb1p]

Kk can we f***off with the vegan talk for once...

 

[Cobra Commander]

Kk can we ****off with the vegan talk for once...

If everyone would be willing to drop the discussion i would be the first to agree. But i won't sit back while we are laughed at and vegan propaganda is regarded as fact.

 

[Kriss E]

Great to hear, i hope it stays very healthy and you live a long and healthy life, i really mean that.

I understand that you wanna eat meat and that's fine, it's your body and your choice, but an innocent animal was tortured and killed in the process and that doesn't sit well with many people, it's just not a very nice thing to do to rub it in a Vegan's face, again i understand that you consider it your food but it's the animal cruelty aspect of it that hurts people's feelings. Go ahead and eat it, just maybe try and be a little more compassionate to the animal cruelty part of it if you could.

Nobody has a problem with the moral or environmental issues brought up by vegans. Actually most agree here. If you want to not eat meat because you feel bad about animals, cool man, totally understandable. Same for environment, factory farming is terrible and should be banned.

The problem comes from arguing over health reasons that shows a complete lack of understanding of the studies, and the conclusions brought up by vegans. That is where the problem lies, for the most part, vegans have refused to acknowledge any argument that does not categorically demonize animal products, which is ridiculous.
If you kept it to ethics and environmental reasons, everyone would agree. Heck, we would also agree by saying processed meat is terrible and people overeat animal products in general. Alas, that isn't enough, complete demonizing of animal products is what you guys can't seem to let go.

 

[Kriss E]

Yes probably, I can always make modifications later.

Depends on the seriousness of this experiment I guess. Whatever you will observe at the end isn't going to give you much outside "if I do this-this-this-this and that-that-that-that, well this is what happens''. What are the main contributors though, isn't going to be known.
Anyways, I don't think you need me to tell you this, you're a scientist, you know all this already. You are doing this for shits and giggles.
I am very interested in doing experiments myself but so goddamn hard in HK. Too many social events and uncontrollable variables, I just don't see the point.

What is your training regimen during this?

 

[Paddyjack]

Great to hear, i hope it stays very healthy and you live a long and healthy life, i really mean that.

I understand that you wanna eat meat and that's fine, it's your body and your choice, but an innocent animal was tortured and killed in the process and that doesn't sit well with many people, it's just not a very nice thing to do to rub it in a Vegan's face, again i understand that you consider it your food but it's the animal cruelty aspect of it that hurts people's feelings. Go ahead and eat it, just maybe try and be a little more compassionate to the animal cruelty part of it if you could.

Like I pointed out one page above and that you ignored because it doesn't fit your agenda, the argument here is about health facts that you or other vegans point out, not about the moral issues with eating meat. And nobody is against vegans, we all put more veggies in our plate because it's good. But looking at you arguing with people here I get the same feeling as when I try to argue with Flat Earthers or Moon hoaxers. You just stick with your arguments and don't even look critically at what people tell you about them.

As for the moral issue, it all depends of the people. For me, when I catch a fish, I take it in my hands and crush it neck, zip, just like that. Because, I simply can't care less about a fish. Not more than picking up a flower. So why would I care about eating it? But other people feel differently and I respect that. I can even understand why. It doesn't mean I agree.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Nobody has a problem with the moral or environmental issues brought up by vegans. Actually most agree here. If you want to not eat meat because you feel bad about animals, cool man, totally understandable. Same for environment, factory farming is terrible and should be banned.

The problem comes from arguing over health reasons that shows a complete lack of understanding of the studies, and the conclusions brought up by vegans. That is where the problem lies, for the most part, vegans have refused to acknowledge any argument that does not categorically demonize animal products, which is ridiculous.
If you kept it to ethics and environmental reasons, everyone would agree. Heck, we would also agree by saying processed meat is terrible and people overeat animal products in general. Alas, that isn't enough, complete demonizing of animal products is what you guys can't seem to let go.

The ethical reasons are just the cherry on the sunday for me. Animal products in any capacity have negative effects on human health and should not be consumed, if you feed a pig with porc wich they do, does that make the pig an omnivore? no. Just because we can eat meat does that make us omnivores by design? no. Will a cow die fast if we start mixing in chicken with it's food? No, the cow's body will try to addapt. Our bodies are designed and function to eat plants, the more meat and dairy we eat the more our bodies struggle to repair themselves.
Sure we developped intelligence and evolved into eating meat, we have also evolved to smoke tobaco does that make it good for us? no. The facts are that we are herbivores by design and function, we are not omnivores.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Like I pointed out one page above and that you ignored because it doesn't fit your agenda, the argument here is about health facts that you or other vegans point out, not about the moral issues with eating meat. And nobody is against vegans, we all put more veggies in our plate because it's good. But looking at you arguing with people here I get the same feeling as when I try to argue with Flat Earthers or Moon hoaxers. You just stick with your arguments and don't even look critically at what people tell you about them.

As for the moral issue, it all depends of the people. For me, when I catch a fish, I take it in my hands and crush it neck, zip, just like that. Because, I simply can't care less about a fish. Not more than picking up a flower. So why would I care about eating it? But other people feel differently and I respect that. I can even understand why. It doesn't mean I agree.

Yes i have been arguing all of the health facts, i have debunked all of the vegan propaganda spread in here and i have destroyed all the health arguments with facts. Eating animal products is not healthy for humans, you should watch "Forks over knives" and "What the health" and listen to the facts and information that the doctors and scientists are providing you about how the human body works.

You wanna eat meat and dairy, go ahead, but at least get the information straight so you can stop lying to yourself by thinking it's healthy for you.

 

[Kriss E]

The ethical reasons are just the cherry on the sunday for me. Animal products in any capacity have negative effects on human health and should not be consumed, if you feed a pig with porc wich they do, does that make the pig an omnivore? no. Just because we can eat meat does that make us omnivores by design? no. Will a cow die fast if we start mixing in chicken with it's food? No, the cow's body will try to addapt. Our bodies are designed and function to eat plants, the more meat and dairy we eat the more our bodies struggle to repair themselves.
Sure we developped intelligence and evolved into eating meat, we have also evolved to smoke tobaco does that make it good for us? no. The facts are that we are herbivores by design and function, we are not omnivores.

Just think about this for a second. Drop any preconceived idea of yours.
If humans were natural herbivores, there would have been ZERO reason for them to ever introduce meat to their diets. Just like every other herbivore on this planet never did so. Why in the hell would humans start eating meat some 2 million years ago by creating weapons and hunting, going through the process of beating and mashing meat, skinning animals, etc? When all they have to do is store the much more available fruits and veggies of the land without the grueling process of hunting major other animals using a freaking sharp stone?

This herbivore myth makes no sense whatsoever and is an insult to evolution.

Aside from this point, you also mention how the humans have evolved into meat eaters. Well if that is the case then it really doesn't matter if you think the Human is orginally programmed to be a herbivore. Why? Well because it has fully adapted and can live a perfectly long healthy life while eating meat.

So either way, this herbivore myth makes no sense.

As I said, if you want to stick to ethical and environmental issues, I have no problem there. It's when you guys try to argue beyond these points that it gets ridiculous.

 

[DAChampion]

Yes i have been arguing all of the health facts, i have debunked all of the vegan propaganda spread in here and i have destroyed all the health arguments with facts. Eating animal products is not healthy for humans, you should watch "Forks over knives" and "What the health" and listen to the facts and information that the doctors and scientists are providing you about how the human body works.

You wanna eat meat and dairy, go ahead, but at least get the information straight so you can stop lying to yourself by thinking it's healthy for you.

You've actually debunked very little, the fact that you think you do undermines your credibility. You're easily impressed by fraudulent documentaries like What The Health, and the fact that elephants can get big eating 400 pounds of vegetation a day.

And FYI drop the young-earth creationism -- the human body is not "designed".

 

[DAChampion]

Depends on the seriousness of this experiment I guess. Whatever you will observe at the end isn't going to give you much outside "if I do this-this-this-this and that-that-that-that, well this is what happens''. What are the main contributors though, isn't going to be known.
Anyways, I don't think you need me to tell you this, you're a scientist, you know all this already. You are doing this for ****s and giggles.
I am very interested in doing experiments myself but so goddamn hard in HK. Too many social events and uncontrollable variables, I just don't see the point.

What is your training regimen during this?

My arms are going to get big from use of the cell phone, keyboard, and also jerking off as a substitute for HIIT. I also plan to develop a stronger jaw from by chewing on celery . It's a great idea as women like strong jawlines on men.

Aside from that, I'm actually recovering from several months of travel and illness and am relatively weak. I'm doing yoga a few times a week and one day of cardio. I'll add back the weight training soon. A lot of of basic yoga poses are now much harder than they were before, due to loss of strength. At least my back already feels better, a few weeks ago I felt the back pain coming back and I was getting scared. Now it's feeling pristine again.

On food, sugar was unquestionably my biggest vice so just cutting that out is wonderful. My best guess is that fermented dairy (and possibly butter) are good for you, less so milk. I think that i had never tried goatsg milk yogurt until yesterday. Th rest of it might be nothing more than macros to expand my palette. That's ok . If I go to an Asian restaurant now illIfocus on the rice rather than the naan and roti.

 

[Kriss E]

My arms are going to get big from use of the cell phone, keyboard, and also jerking off as a substitute for HIIT. I also plan to develop a stronger jaw from by chewing on celery . It's a great idea as women like strong jawlines on men.

Aside from that, I'm actually recovering from several months of travel and illness and am relatively weak. I'm doing yoga a few times a week and one day of cardio. I'll add back the weight training soon. A lot of of basic yoga poses are now much harder than they were before, due to loss of strength. At least my back already feels better, a few weeks ago I felt the back pain coming back and I was getting scared. Now it's feeling pristine again.

On food, sugar was unquestionably my biggest vice so just cutting that out is wonderful. My best guess is that fermented dairy (and possibly butter) are good for you, less so milk. I think that i had never tried goatsg milk yogurt until yesterday. Th rest of it might be nothing more than macros to expand my palette. That's ok . If I go to an Asian restaurant now illIfocus on the rice rather than the naan and roti.

Dang it mate, you on a TRT? That's some heavy yanking volume.

No doubt cutting sugar will help. I never tried goat milk yogurt, maybe i'll have a go at it.

 

[Mrb1p]

My arms are going to get big from use of the cell phone, keyboard, and also jerking off as a substitute for HIIT. I also plan to develop a stronger jaw from by chewing on celery . It's a great idea as women like strong jawlines on men.

Aside from that, I'm actually recovering from several months of travel and illness and am relatively weak. I'm doing yoga a few times a week and one day of cardio. I'll add back the weight training soon. A lot of of basic yoga poses are now much harder than they were before, due to loss of strength. At least my back already feels better, a few weeks ago I felt the back pain coming back and I was getting scared. Now it's feeling pristine again.

On food, sugar was unquestionably my biggest vice so just cutting that out is wonderful. My best guess is that fermented dairy (and possibly butter) are good for you, less so milk. I think that i had never tried goatsg milk yogurt until yesterday. Th rest of it might be nothing more than macros to expand my palette. That's ok . If I go to an Asian restaurant now illIfocus on the rice rather than the naan and roti.

I stopped Yoga too... im feeling so stiff every morning, my back hurts and my mood sucks... now im too lazy to start back with a small 10 to 15 minutes practice everyday. It sucks.

 

[SquiddFX]

I would like to point out the base of most pasta dough is egg, flour, and oil. So that whole wheat pasta doesn't sound very vegan to me.

 

[Mrb1p]

I would like to point out the base of any pasta dough is egg, flour, and oil. So that whole wheat pasta doesn't sound very vegan to me.

Not every pasta is made of that.

 

[DAChampion]

Dang it mate, you on a TRT? That's some heavy yanking volume.

No doubt cutting sugar will help. I never tried goat milk yogurt, maybe i'll have a go at it.

Some elaboration:

1) In our scientific discussions on veganism in the past few months here I did come that the disadvantages of veganism, all of the ones that I could argue with a straight face, would whither away with modest consumption of animal products, avoidance of becoming a junk food vegan, and emphasis on fats (nuts, seeds, avocado, olive, coconut). That was true to the extent of my "knowledge", as a modest consumption of animal products is enough to bring in D3, K2, retinol, EPA, DHA, etc. and other micronutrients that are harder to find in plant-based sources. Perhaps, though, my reasoning is shit (somehow), and then this will fail and I'll find that educational.

My breakfast this morning was haphazard: some strawberries, some kombucha, some mixed nuts, and a spoon of coconut oil. I'm working on it. When my mixed nuts run out I will replace them with a container of salted mixed nuts, to get more salt, which is harder to do without meat.

2) I am finding it difficult to eat as much. First, just cutting out sugar is major for me, I was eating *a lot* of pastries/cookies/ice cream the past few weeks, certainly more than 1,000 calories a day on many days. It did contribute adipose fat and that's bad ... but some of it was converted to energy and it's going to be hard to replace. I'm finding myself a little tired, and a little dizzy too when I stand up. You know, if you pick up a chocolate-cherry scone with your latté in the morning, that's 600 calories right there. It doesn't all go to fat, some of it is converted to energy.

It's kind of as if I've been fasting for a few days, but I have not been and it's not going to get better unless I eat more. When fasting, the body eventually starts converting ~2,500 calories a day of body fat into energy, and then mood recovers. That cannot happen on a low-calorie, high-carb diet due to the insulin, the body has a relatively hard time converting body fat into energy, and so "calories in, calories out" will take the form of slower metabolism. So I'll have to figure out how to eat more. I think that I only have a few days to do this properly otherwise I risk getting very sick.

Most of the restaurants nearby have no supportive options, nearly all don't, and it's unbearable to eat the same thing over and over again. This does explicitly reveal a major reason why a lot of vegans are healthier: they cannot eat out. They cannot go to most restaurants. They cannot use vending machines or buy chocolate bars from the gas station as those usually contain dairy, gelatin, etc. They are forced to prepare their own food, which is intrinsically healthier. Alternatively, however, it's also anti-social if you have to avoid most social outings ending up in restaurants where you can't eat.

ETA: Today's lunch was a bowl of rice, vegetables, tofu, sesame seeds, dressing, and spices at an Asian place. The dressing (e.g. hot sauce, soy sauce) likely contained added sugar. Afterwards I had a banana, an apple, and a coffee.

 

[ECWHSWI]

The ethical reasons are just the cherry on the sunday for me. Animal products in any capacity have negative effects on human health and should not be consumed, if you feed a pig with porc wich they do, does that make the pig an omnivore? no. Just because we can eat meat does that make us omnivores by design? no. Will a cow die fast if we start mixing in chicken with it's food? No, the cow's body will try to addapt. Our bodies are designed and function to eat plants, the more meat and dairy we eat the more our bodies struggle to repair themselves.
Sure we developped intelligence and evolved into eating meat, we have also evolved to smoke tobaco does that make it good for us? no. The facts are that we are herbivores by design and function, we are not omnivores.

wrong
wrong
wrong
wrong and, well...
wrong.

there is hundreds, if not thousands of books, magazines, TV Doc (plus web, dvds), radio shows on pretty much every single subject that exists in this world every f***ing year... I suggest you read/listen/watch a few of them. Not just the same two over and over.

You don't even need to be a scientist to read/watch the basics on most subjects. It would do you a lot of good to educate yourself a bit instead of -thinking- you destroyed anyone in here...


btw...
Humans were not designed to, they evolved into (creationnist alert in here), Homo Erectus did not evolve from herbivore to carnivore but from carnivore to omnivore

 

[ECWHSWI]

My breakfast this morning was haphazard: some strawberries, some kombucha, some mixed nuts, and a spoon of coconut oil. I'm working on it. When my mixed nuts run out I will replace them with a container of salted mixed nuts, to get more salt, which is harder to do without meat.

curious to know why you'd want to do that ?

body doesnt need that much salt.

 

[DAChampion]

curious to know why you'd want to do that ?

body doesnt need that much salt.

Here's a good presentation from Dr. Jason Fung where he reviews and undermines some of the historical arguments against salt:


Dr. James Dinicolantonia has recently written "The Salt Fix" where he also argues against low-salt diets, in greater detail.

Speaking for myself, I do not have hypertension, and I also consume a lot of diuretics (coffee and tea), so the arguments to increase salt intake are increased.

 

[DAChampion]

Dinner (I'll stop spamming these soon, maybe next week),

Bowl of vegetable soup from a nearby restaurant, 150
A few mixed nuts, 150
Goat's milk yogurt, 150
bag of green peas, with added tapenade, alfalfa sprouts, and (light) olive oil, 300
A third of a papaya, 100
cup of kombucha, 25
Total calories: ~900

Poorly planned lol, which is due to my making it up as I go along.I could have done without the first two items. On the bright side: I'm full, and all of these items contain respectable micronutrients.

Green peas are allegedly one of the better plant-based protein sources -- I have not checked the reasoning though. They're also easy to make. However, they're very filling as they're high in fiber as well. So even though the protein is very good, it's hard to get a lot of it.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Here's a good presentation from Dr. Jason Fung where he reviews and undermines some of the historical arguments against salt:


Dr. James Dinicolantonia has recently written "The Salt Fix" where he also argues against low-salt diets, in greater detail.

Speaking for myself, I do not have hypertension, and I also consume a lot of diuretics (coffee and tea), so the arguments to increase salt intake are increased.

The guy may have some good points, but he's all over the place, and yeah, results vary from one individual to another (most know that already), meh. His book may be better though.

Besides, wether it's sugar, salt or fat, I'd go see a specialist before going on a specific diet. Just thinking "I'll cut some fat off" or something rarely works.

as for the previous comment, just to make clear, it wasnt about you needing to cut on the salt, but was wondering why you needed to ADD more salt ?