Post-Game Talk: fish

[duhmetreE]

This year's team is better at generating chances but sucks at finishing them. Last year's team would get outshot and outchanced but they'd finish the few chances they got

It's literally the opposite.

We have mind melting breakdowns defensively and give up goals against in limited HDC.

and opposing goalies have turned into godmode Shesty.

 

[Off Sides]

This year's team is better at generating chances but sucks at finishing them. Last year's team would get outshot and outchanced but they'd finish the few chances they got

I am not so sure. I think they are taking more shots and more attempts, I think that can be a proxy for them being better.

I know the charts say things about high danger shots, yet they still are treating all of them the same.

Maybe they should rank them like this shot was anywhere from 50%-60% dangerous, while this shot was 80-90% dangerous, and it would give a clearer picture.

 

[Fitzy]

Team isn't gonna miss the playoffs unless Shesty has a season ending injury.

We're not looking like a contender right now, but the team is still too good at the top of the lineup to miss out.

 

[Cmox]

I mentioned this last night but does anyone else notice Shesterkin over shooting the posts? He’s been going to far to the side or too deep. I swear sometimes a shoulder is in the net.

His lateral skating is highly touted and I don’t recall him doing this until this season.
Anyone think there might be something bothering him or is it some adjustment?

 

[duhmetreE]

Team isn't gonna miss the playoffs unless Shesty has a season ending injury.

We're not looking like a contender right now, but the team is still too good at the top of the lineup to miss out.

You can see though, how/why Gallant gets fired.

It's these type of stretches.

 

[CLW]

The problems right now as I see them:

A. There's no doubt the team is having post-season hangover. When all the core vets are slumping at the same time the going will be tough in this league. Posters were hard on Mika at the start of last season until he turned it around. Now we have Trouba who is shocking, Igor poor, Panarin almost back to moonshine Panarin, Kreider metane sniffing, Mika slumping etc.

B. Gallant's vision and the players he has at hand is not a match.
- He gives (1) Panarin the freedom of the ice to do whatever he wants, but that means an entire line has to play Panarin hockey.
- Then we have (2) Mika, one of the best rush players in the league. Why ask him to play NS hockey in the first place? That's his top 6 that doesn't fit GG's vision of how hockey should be played.
- Then we have (3) the kids, the Kid line is easily the Rangers best line, but he refuses to play them because they don't play NS hockey, that's the third line not fitting in with GG's ideas.
- To try to make all this work according to his own ideas GG is making all kinds of contortionist tricks, instead of simply going with what is natural and instinctive for his players (see the Kid line) and take it from there.

C. Gallant's hobbyhorses. Him bringing in old standby favorites that are not up to snuff on the ice is a habit that bites this team hard. Drury is guilty here as well humoring GG. Playing his 4th line when it's wildly inappropriate is a habit he can't shake etc.

D. I can't shake the image of the first shift in the 3rd period. That was six players on the ice that were comatose and checked out. It's mental (see point A.)

 

[gravey9]

The biggest problem with the D is continually backing into the D-zone when opponents have the puck. This is another long-time problem that's never been corrected.

yeah, but that happens when you don't have consistent numbers back. You can't stand up at the blue line if you don't have coverage or are facing speed coming through the neutral zone. We let teams in because they counter-attack us. And we're rushing just to get back.

Look, hockey has a lot of unexpected little plays that happen all over the ice, no matter how good or bad a team is. But whether a lot of those mistakes or little errors are impactful is all about team structure and awareness of details and situational awareness. We know the team isn't that dumb because we saw them making smarter plays for parts of the playoffs last year.

I think it's pretty clear what's happening. These immediately harmful mistakes they've been committing so far are eerily similar to how they lost the first 3 out of 4 to Pitt in the playoffs. Almost of our games this year have felt like the beginning of that series. Which says to me, the league took note of how Pittsburgh beat us. Teams know to turtle and protect the paint against us, let us have the possession all we want. Because they know, at some point, we'll be giving up 5-10 grade AAAAA+ opportunities. And if they bury 3 or more they win. That's the whole gameplan. And so, do we look good for long stretches of games? Yup? Do we look like the harlem globetrotters and is that lulling us all into this vision of a team that has a ton of skill that has just had bad luck? Yup. But it's a f***ing mirage.

Teams are playing us like EPL teams play against Man City. They wait, they protect the box and they counter at the right moments. And EVERY team does it. EVERY TEAM. It's the book on us. So without us countering with our own very tight structure, without having 4-5 men in the picture when defending, without us protecting our own paint and managing the puck almost to perfection, we are really making it hard to win games. Wayyyyy harder than it needs to be. It's crazy too. We have one of the best goalies in the game, and all we need to do is protect the paint, block point shots, clog the neutral zone and we likely win most of our games. But we don't. Cause we prefer dumb fun hockey.

 

[Off Sides]

While I agree they need to be better defensively, they still need to be good the other way too. Last night when the Islanders scored 1st, everyone was like, well that's it. Yet then they came back and scored some goals against the 4 man back defensive scheme.

The 3rd period was a shit show, they came out and played let's chase and run around hockey, and were scored on in like 14 seconds. They must have thought they already won the game in the first two periods. Those type of defensive break downs should not be excusable, yet the players who were on the ice for that goal against kept being put back out there like nothing even happened.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

yeah, but that happens when you don't have consistent numbers back. You can't stand up at the blue line if you don't have coverage or are facing speed coming through the neutral zone. We let teams in because they counter-attack us. And we're rushing just to get back.

Look, hockey has a lot of unexpected little plays that happen all over the ice, no matter how good or bad a team is. But whether a lot of those mistakes or little errors are impactful is all about team structure and awareness of details and situational awareness. We know the team isn't that dumb because we saw them making smarter plays for parts of the playoffs last year.

I think it's pretty clear what's happening. These immediately harmful mistakes they've been committing so far are eerily similar to how they lost the first 3 out of 4 to Pitt in the playoffs. Almost of our games this year have felt like the beginning of that series. Which says to me, the league took note of how Pittsburgh beat us. Teams know to turtle and protect the paint against us, let us have the possession all we want. Because they know, at some point, we'll be giving up 5-10 grade AAAAA+ opportunities. And if they bury 3 or more they win. That's the whole gameplan. And so, do we look good for long stretches of games? Yup? Do we look like the harlem globetrotters and is that lulling us all into this vision of a team that has a ton of skill that has just had bad luck? Yup. But it's a f***ing mirage.

Teams are playing us like EPL teams play against Man City. They wait, they protect the box and they counter at the right moments. And EVERY team does it. EVERY TEAM. It's the book on us. So without us countering with our own very tight structure, without having 4-5 men in the picture when defending, without us protecting our own paint and managing the puck almost to perfection, we are really making it hard to win games. Wayyyyy harder than it needs to be. It's crazy too. We have one of the best goalies in the game, and all we need to do is protect the paint, block point shots, clog the neutral zone and we likely win most of our games. But we don't. Cause we prefer dumb fun hockey.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's a natural progression that teams will adjust to what you're doing. We've known (and other teams have shown) that the best way to beat Rangers is to limit open ice and use an aggressive forecheck. Last season only cemented that. Rangers have not adjusted (and never seem to adjust).

 

[Machinehead]

I get it. But when will it equalize. How many games before we can panic about this?

Sometimes teams have unlucky seasons. The 2014-15 Kings missed the playoffs as a 58% possession team.

There's no reason to panic. The team is young. They're not moving to Quebec City. The cap situation should improve.

Where are we going? What are we panicking about?

I get alarmed when teams are doing the wrong things and just accept it, like the Yankees.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

The problems right now as I see them:

A. There's no doubt the team is having post-season hangover. When all the core vets are slumping at the same time the going will be tough in this league. Posters were hard on Mika at the start of last season until he turned it around. Now we have Trouba who is shocking, Igor poor, Panarin almost back to moonshine Panarin, Kreider metane sniffing, Mika slumping etc.

B. Gallant's vision and the players he has at hand is not a match.
- He gives (1) Panarin the freedom of the ice to do whatever he wants, but that means an entire line has to play Panarin hockey.
- Then we have (2) Mika, one of the best rush players in the league. Why ask him to play NS hockey in the first place? That's his top 6 that doesn't fit GG's vision of how hockey should be played.
- Then we have (3) the kids, the Kid line is easily the Rangers best line, but he refuses to play them because they don't play NS hockey, that's the third line not fitting in with GG's ideas.
- To try to make all this work according to his own ideas GG is making all kinds of contortionist tricks, instead of simply going with what is natural and instinctive for his players (see the Kid line) and take it from there.

C. Gallant's hobbyhorses. Him bringing in old standby favorites that are not up to snuff on the ice is a habit that bites this team hard. Drury is guilty here as well humoring GG. Playing his 4th line when it's wildly inappropriate is a habit he can't shake etc.

D. I can't shake the image of the first shift in the 3rd period. That was six players on the ice that were comatose and checked out. It's mental (see point A.)

I think the Kid line plays more of a NS style than anyone else on the team.

 

[CLW]

I think the Kid line plays more of a NS style than anyone else on the team.

They attack like a wave, they don't just dump and chase.

 

[rangersfansince08]

They attack like a wave, they don't just dump and chase.

We did that on the first PP goal last night and what do you know we scored.

Sometimes teams have unlucky seasons. The 2014-15 Kings missed the playoffs as a 58% possession team.

There's no reason to panic. The team is young. They're not moving to Quebec City. The cap situation should improve.

Where are we going? What are we panicking about?

I get alarmed when teams are doing the wrong things and just accept it, like the Yankees.

Good point but I think we all just don't want this to be a wasted season so we're all panicking and throwing things we know won't happen like Trotz

Seriously this teams needs to watch Panthers film from last year. They were elite at going up ice as a 5 man unit.

 

[CLW]

yeah, but that happens when you don't have consistent numbers back. You can't stand up at the blue line if you don't have coverage or are facing speed coming through the neutral zone. We let teams in because they counter-attack us. And we're rushing just to get back.

Look, hockey has a lot of unexpected little plays that happen all over the ice, no matter how good or bad a team is. But whether a lot of those mistakes or little errors are impactful is all about team structure and awareness of details and situational awareness. We know the team isn't that dumb because we saw them making smarter plays for parts of the playoffs last year.

I think it's pretty clear what's happening. These immediately harmful mistakes they've been committing so far are eerily similar to how they lost the first 3 out of 4 to Pitt in the playoffs. Almost of our games this year have felt like the beginning of that series. Which says to me, the league took note of how Pittsburgh beat us. Teams know to turtle and protect the paint against us, let us have the possession all we want. Because they know, at some point, we'll be giving up 5-10 grade AAAAA+ opportunities. And if they bury 3 or more they win. That's the whole gameplan. And so, do we look good for long stretches of games? Yup? Do we look like the harlem globetrotters and is that lulling us all into this vision of a team that has a ton of skill that has just had bad luck? Yup. But it's a f***ing mirage.

Teams are playing us like EPL teams play against Man City. They wait, they protect the box and they counter at the right moments. And EVERY team does it. EVERY TEAM. It's the book on us. So without us countering with our own very tight structure, without having 4-5 men in the picture when defending, without us protecting our own paint and managing the puck almost to perfection, we are really making it hard to win games. Wayyyyy harder than it needs to be. It's crazy too. We have one of the best goalies in the game, and all we need to do is protect the paint, block point shots, clog the neutral zone and we likely win most of our games. But we don't. Cause we prefer dumb fun hockey.

Teams turtling and ending up with the win against the attacking team with something like 12 shots for against 45 shots against has been a thing since the 1980s when teams started turtling.

 

[Brief Candle]

yeah, but that happens when you don't have consistent numbers back. You can't stand up at the blue line if you don't have coverage or are facing speed coming through the neutral zone. We let teams in because they counter-attack us. And we're rushing just to get back.

Look, hockey has a lot of unexpected little plays that happen all over the ice, no matter how good or bad a team is. But whether a lot of those mistakes or little errors are impactful is all about team structure and awareness of details and situational awareness. We know the team isn't that dumb because we saw them making smarter plays for parts of the playoffs last year.

I think it's pretty clear what's happening. These immediately harmful mistakes they've been committing so far are eerily similar to how they lost the first 3 out of 4 to Pitt in the playoffs. Almost of our games this year have felt like the beginning of that series. Which says to me, the league took note of how Pittsburgh beat us. Teams know to turtle and protect the paint against us, let us have the possession all we want. Because they know, at some point, we'll be giving up 5-10 grade AAAAA+ opportunities. And if they bury 3 or more they win. That's the whole gameplan. And so, do we look good for long stretches of games? Yup? Do we look like the harlem globetrotters and is that lulling us all into this vision of a team that has a ton of skill that has just had bad luck? Yup. But it's a f***ing mirage.

Teams are playing us like EPL teams play against Man City. They wait, they protect the box and they counter at the right moments. And EVERY team does it. EVERY TEAM. It's the book on us. So without us countering with our own very tight structure, without having 4-5 men in the picture when defending, without us protecting our own paint and managing the puck almost to perfection, we are really making it hard to win games. Wayyyyy harder than it needs to be. It's crazy too. We have one of the best goalies in the game, and all we need to do is protect the paint, block point shots, clog the neutral zone and we likely win most of our games. But we don't. Cause we prefer dumb fun hockey.

I couldn't agree more with all of this.

It's funny, I draw a lot of parallels to football as well. They remind me of how they play in Argentina, but without that finishing polish. That's the issue with the whole highlight reel hockey they're trying to play.

Last night was tough. We were 2mm and a missed call from winning that game. Honestly, I thought it would have been a bigger blow out.

I do think Gallant needs to take an honest look at his players and try to adjust the playing style to match them. It's also on Drury to bring in players that will assist in playing whatever style they choose.

The ONLY upside I can take from this is that if our finishing picks up, and we can do it consistently, we could be fairly deadly, but I stand by what I said before: a looooooooooooot of our wins last season we're games that left me saying to myself "I don't know how we won that game, but we did".

 

[TheBloodyNine]

We did that on the first PP goal last night and what do you know we scored.


Good point but I think we all just don't want this to be a wasted season so we're all panicking and throwing things we know won't happen like Trotz

Seriously this teams needs to watch Panthers film from last year. They were elite at going up ice as a 5 man unit.

Or just go out and get the guy who implemented that.

Here's a thought - Quennville gets hired as an associate coach - for now.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Sammy Blais is a invisible ghost he sucks

 

[rangersfansince08]

Or just go out and get the guy who implemented that.

Here's a thought - Quennville gets hired as an associate coach - for now.

That would work.

I was so surprised when we did it on our first PP goal. The Rangers never do that. It was beautiful.

 

[CLW]

I couldn't agree more with all of this.

It's funny, I draw a lot of parallels to football as well. They remind me of how they play in Argentina, but without that finishing polish. That's the issue with the whole highlight reel hockey they're trying to play.

Last night was tough. We were 2mm and a missed call from winning that game. Honestly, I thought it would have been a bigger blow out.

I do think Gallant needs to take an honest look at his players and try to adjust the playing style to match them. It's also on Drury to bring in players that will assist in playing whatever style they choose.

The ONLY upside I can take from this is that if our finishing picks up, and we can do it consistently, we could be fairly deadly, but I stand by what I said before: a looooooooooooot of our wins last season we're games that left me saying to myself "I don't know how we won that game, but we did".

So how come we won last season even if we were outplayed and are losing now outplaying other teams? Something is going on that's more than a coincidence.

I think high danger chances are different when you face a square goalie and when you face a goalie that has to move, and that's the difference. Varlamov, Helleybuck etc can just stand up doing their thing. Igor right now gets into awkward positions suddenly due to defensive breakdowns, which makes it harder on him than when he is faced with a cannonade of shots from predictable angles.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I couldn't agree more with all of this.

It's funny, I draw a lot of parallels to football as well. They remind me of how they play in Argentina, but without that finishing polish. That's the issue with the whole highlight reel hockey they're trying to play.

Last night was tough. We were 2mm and a missed call from winning that game. Honestly, I thought it would have been a bigger blow out.

I do think Gallant needs to take an honest look at his players and try to adjust the playing style to match them. It's also on Drury to bring in players that will assist in playing whatever style they choose.

The ONLY upside I can take from this is that if our finishing picks up, and we can do it consistently, we could be fairly deadly, but I stand by what I said before: a looooooooooooot of our wins last season we're games that left me saying to myself "I don't know how we won that game, but we did".

I got mad one day during the last Quinn season and tried to import the "pecho frío" concept over here. Luckily it didn't take

 

[Fitzy]

You can see though, how/why Gallant gets fired.

It's these type of stretches.

I was a big advocate for GG but I am starting to think a friendly coach with a team that doesn't have an established and respected leader (Bergeron is such a leader) might be a bad combination. At a certain point even among a group of grown men having someone respected who is willing to step up and hold people accountable is necessary.

Our guys have been playing only as hard as they feel they need to for a while now.

The problem is I don't think this roster is built to succeed under a Trotz type.

 

[CLW]

I couldn't agree more with all of this.

It's funny, I draw a lot of parallels to football as well. They remind me of how they play in Argentina, but without that finishing polish. That's the issue with the whole highlight reel hockey they're trying to play.

Last night was tough. We were 2mm and a missed call from winning that game. Honestly, I thought it would have been a bigger blow out.

I do think Gallant needs to take an honest look at his players and try to adjust the playing style to match them. It's also on Drury to bring in players that will assist in playing whatever style they choose.

The ONLY upside I can take from this is that if our finishing picks up, and we can do it consistently, we could be fairly deadly, but I stand by what I said before: a looooooooooooot of our wins last season we're games that left me saying to myself "I don't know how we won that game, but we did".

If people follow soccer, in the Premier League there was a coach (Tony Pulis) that played as defensively as possible, just hoofing the ball up the pitch towards "target men" whenever the team had possession, relying on the opponents to have defensive breakdowns at set pieces, or in general, for offensive production and extreme turtling for defense. This method is very effective, up to a certain skill point after which it doesn't work at all. That's what NS hockey is to me.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Despite all their faults, I think they will continue to be successful in the regular season -- namely make the playoffs.

However, I think most of us can agree that this team is not built for the playoffs. I still believe they got as far as they did last season because of the 4 pickups at the deadline.

 

[duhmetreE]

I was a big advocate for GG but I am starting to think a friendly coach with a team that doesn't have an established and respected leader (Bergeron is such a leader) might be a bad combination. At a certain point even among a group of grown men having someone respected who is willing to step up and hold people accountable is necessary.

Our guys have been playing only as hard as they feel they need to for a while now.

The problem is I don't think this roster is built to succeed under a Trotz type.

We don't really play that much of a different game, offensively speaking, but Trotz does have more 'purpose, in that sense. He'll target a weaker defenseman and dump it on that side. Match up lines.

We obviously would have A LOT more structure defensively. As long as it's more open, to suit our top6 talent, I'm game.

Our defenders have been lagging behind. Modern day NHL teams have their defenseman play a big role in the offense... we all complain about our bottom6 not producing, our defense doesn't produce either. ( Why I'd advocate for Chychrun ). We need more than just Adam Fox

 

[Cmox]

The biggest problem with the D is continually backing into the D-zone when opponents have the puck. This is another long-time problem that's never been corrected.

They stand and watch a ton too. Last night they some how were backing up slowly, watching the puck and not moving all at. Pretty impressive.