First Impressions of St. Louis

[SA16]

You should probably forward those studies to NHL scouts.

See the edit...all the scouts at this level are extremely good. The draft isn't one team with professional scouts and other teams with random guys they picked up off the street. They are all right there with the best in the business.

Likewise they are not the ones you would want to tell that the "skill" is relatively eliminated. Perhaps I should forward a 2 point conversion chart to NFL coaches since they completely mismanage the situation. But they think their way is right and that's it basically.

 

[Chaels Arms]

I don't even understand the point of that post. Those were all important players for us.

If anything that shows how important the draft is. That's also criminally unfair to include recent drafts and discount Michael Sauer.

Bizarro world.

You don't understand the point of the post because you have problems reading things you disagree with correctly.

The poster I was replying too was specifically referencing draft picks after the first round.

I acknowledged the issue with the recent drafts. Just curious, which of those players do you think is going to be a full time NHL'er in the next 4 years? Want to make a wager and meet back up when it's all said and done?

Michael Sauer is done. You can explain it however you want but he's not an NHL'er player. That just falls into the sad but true category.

The bizarro world is when people think a 6.25 percent chance is worth taking a chance on. Can we play poker together?

 

[Chaels Arms]

6.25 percent

 

[aufheben]

I'll take 6.5% over 0%.

"How does having 8 or 9 picks after the first round actually accomplish anything"

And then you go on to list players that were important to this franchise. The chances are small, so we should have...less of them?

 

[SA16]

You don't understand the point of the post because you have problems reading things you disagree with correctly.

The poster I was replying too was specifically referencing draft picks after the first round.

I acknowledged the issue with the recent drafts. Just curious, which of those players do you think is going to be a full time NHL'er in the next 4 years? Want to make a wager and meet back up when it's all said and done?

Michael Sauer is done. You can explain it however you want but he's not an NHL'er player. That just falls into the sad but true category.

The bizarro world is when people think a 6.25 percent chance is worth taking a chance on. Can we play poker together?

I used to be a professional poker player...then 4/15/11 happened.

 

[Harry99]

Cally wanted his pay day, nothing wrong with that. He earned it, worked hard for this team, Rangers did not want to give it to him so they threw him overboard. So now he said, F the Rangers will show you what I can still do. As per Tampa, he has been the spark there, and the players and coaches are praising him for a reason. He held the team on his own shoulders last game, scored both goals, and made huge defensive plays to keep the score tied and to go into OT.

I just don't think some fans understand the concept of two-way hockey, they see a guy in MSL who can score goals and put up a lot points, but is he going to do the dirty work, is he going to give his body up for a possible game saving goal in the playoffs? will he check guys to create turnovers and whatnot? Fans here really did not appreciate Ryan Callahan. Not saying he should of gotten paid whatever, no, but when it came over a NTC, something should of bent, sorry.

Agreed. I watched the game the other night. He has assumed the same role in TB he had here (before AV). I really think that most fans don't understand the game.

 

[aufheben]

And this: "Granted, maybe we get lucky with some of the recent draft picks but I doubt it."

Is your justification for including recent drafts? Are you kidding?

 

[aufheben]

Exactly. Perhaps the Rangers should emphasize drafting and scouting more rather than just giving up and saying "oh well, our drafting is mediocre, let's just go after free agents and trade for players outside the organization." That's not going to work in a capped league.

It's absurd.

 

[Chaels Arms]

You should probably forward those studies to NHL scouts. I've been following the St. Louis Blues and their building process since 2005-06, it's no surprise that all the work their management put in is paying off now.

Except that guys like, you know, Alex Pietrangelo,Patrik Berglund, TJ Oshie, Jaden Schwartz, Alex Steen,and Kevin Shattenkirk were all first round picks.

Look, if you're argument is to be a really bad team for an extended period of time and stockpile firsts, than that's a different discussion. But at a certain point you have to decide whether you're going to go for it or whether you're rebuilding. Doing something in between is just indeciseveness which results a cycle of mediocrity.

 

[Harry99]

See the edit...all the scouts at this level are extremely good. The draft isn't one team with professional scouts and other teams with random guys they picked up off the street. They are all right there with the best in the business.

Likewise they are not the ones you would want to tell that the "skill" is relatively eliminated. Perhaps I should forward a 2 point conversion chart to NFL coaches since they completely mismanage the situation. But they think their way is right and that's it basically.

yeah, the NHL may as well do an ESPn style autodraft....

 

[Chaels Arms]

And this: "Granted, maybe we get lucky with some of the recent draft picks but I doubt it."

Is your justification for including recent drafts? Are you kidding?

How far back do you want me to go? 20 years? Do you really think the percentage is going to change or are you willing to concede that it won't (logic) and make a real argument?

6.25 percent.

 

[aufheben]

Except that guys like, you know, Alex Pietrangelo,Patrik Berglund, TJ Oshie, Jaden Schwartz, Alex Steen,and Kevin Shattenkirk were all first round picks.

Look, if you're argument is to be a really bad team for an extended period of time and stockpile firsts, than that's a different discussion. But at a certain point you have to decide whether you're going to go for it or whether you're rebuilding. Doing something in between is just indeciseveness which results a cycle of mediocrity.

We've been in a cycle of mediocrity for years...

 

[aufheben]

How far back do you want me to go? 20 years? Do you really think the percentage is going to change or are you willing to concede that it won't (logic) and make a real argument?

6.25 percent.

I just don't think it's fair to factor in a draft from less than a year ago into your equation.

 

[Chaels Arms]

I just don't think it's fair to factor in a draft from less than a year ago into your equation.

OK so if I take that year out and add in an earlier year that's going to change the result?

Come on man. This team is going nowhere with a bunch of second, third and fourth round draft picks. You're just being difficult now. If you're advocating a tank fest than just be honest about it. That's a far more defensible position.

 

[aufheben]

OK so if I take that year out and add in an earlier year that's going to change the result?

Come on man. This team is going nowhere with a bunch of second, third and fourth round draft picks. You're just being difficult now. If you're advocating a tank fest than just be honest about it. That's a far more defensible position.

Yeah this team is going nowhere with draft picks...except for the best team we've had in 20 years that was like 1/2 homegrown talent...

Staal, Sauer, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, Del Zotto, Kreider...who needs em!

 

[Chaels Arms]

We've been in a cycle of mediocrity for years...

You keep dodging the issue.

I fully concede that first rounders are valuable. I concede that stockpiling firsts for an extended period of time can lead to serious success. Some of the elite teams in the league right now did it that way. But getting worked up about second, third and fourth round draft picks is just ridiculous by every objective measure.

 

[Un Prophete]

How far back do you want me to go? 20 years? Do you really think the percentage is going to change or are you willing to concede that it won't (logic) and make a real argument?

6.25 percent.

I'd actually be really interested in seeing that stat across the whole league, over its history. Preferably also broken down by round (i.e. 2nd rounders make it to NHL this %, 3rd rounders, etc) and by team. Someone said studies have been done, has anyone done this?

 

[aufheben]

You keep dodging the issue.

I fully concede that first rounders are valuable. I concede that stockpiling firsts for an extended period of time can lead to serious success. Some of the elite teams in the league right now did it that way. But getting worked up about second, third and fourth round draft picks is just ridiculous by every objective measure.

You should probably send your evidence to Detroit so they don't need to acquire extra 2nd and 3rd rounders.

 

[SA16]

I'd actually be really interested in seeing that stat across the whole league, over its history. Preferably also broken down by round (i.e. 2nd rounders make it to NHL this %, 3rd rounders, etc). Someone said studies have been done, has anyone done this?

It's been done, I think by TSN, I don't remember when or where. Can look it up I'm sure.

 

[Chaels Arms]

You should probably send your evidence to Detroit so they don't need to acquire extra 2nd and 3rd rounders.

I can tell that you're just being thick now. I know it's tough when your subjective views are destroyed by objective measurements but that's part of growing up.

6.25 percent.

 

[aufheben]

i can tell that you're just being thick now. I know it's tough when your subjective views are destroyed by objective measurements but that's part of growing up.

6.25 percent.

6.25% > 0%

 

[Chaels Arms]

6.25% > 0%

This guy agrees with your logic.

 

[aufheben]

Enlightening refutation.

Staal, Sauer, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, Del Zotto, Kreider.

 

[Chaels Arms]

This is going to sound snarkier than I want it to because I do respect your opinion and I do agree with you on the player development issue but seriously, your understanding of statistics is pretty much all the refutation that's needed there.

 

[aufheben]

This is going to sound snarkier than I want it to because I do respect your opinion and I do agree with you on the player development issue but seriously, your understanding of statistics is pretty much all the refutation that's needed there.

So another "refutation" devoid of...anything.