First Impressions of St. Louis
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aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Cigar City
Registered User
Hey guys. I've bitterly been watching most of your games since the trade. I know I kind of enjoy watching him play poorly because he shafted us, but he's not playing his best (obviously).
Eventually, Marty will be Marty, and I think the flood gates will open once he develops some chemistry. I think the Rangers are a dangerous, dangerous team if they make it in, and they will. I can't imagine he has just given up. That's not him.
Eventually, Marty will be Marty, and I think the flood gates will open once he develops some chemistry. I think the Rangers are a dangerous, dangerous team if they make it in, and they will. I can't imagine he has just given up. That's not him.
Yup. But guys like that aren't worth the money. Let's (over)pay softies that only try when they feel like it. That's a winning formula.
SA16
Sixstring
Thanks for chiming in. Did he ever have a stretch in TB where he was this bad? From a TB perspective, how do you explain it?
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
How does having 8 or 9 picks after the first round actually accomplish anything? What legitimate NHL contributors have the Rangers drafted outside of the first round in the past 10 years?
2003 - Baranka, Roche, Potter, Dawes, Dornic, Furrer, Holt, Reese, Marek
2004 - Olver, Byers, Graham, Dubinsky, Bahensky, Ryan, Callahan, Psurny, Foote, Paiment, Petruzalek
2005 - Sauer, Cliche, Dupont, Flatt, Pyatt, Koverko, Beller, Russell
2006 - Anisimov, Hillier, Kveton, Zaborsky, Hunter, Zeliska
2007- Lafleur, Campbell, Hagelin, Skokan, Hobbs
2008 - Stepan, Grachev, Kundratek, Weise, Doyle, Gaulton
2009 - Werek, Bourque, Horak, Stajcer, Maggio, Pashnin
2010 - Thomas,Yogan, Wilson, Fast, McNaught
2011 - Fogarty, St. Croix, McColgan, Noreau, Ceresnak
2012 - Nieves, Andersson, Spelling
2013 - Tambellini, Buchnevich, Duclair,Graves, Skapski
4 out of 64 players drafted after the first round by the Rangers over the past 10 years are in the NHL right now. 4 out of 64. Granted, maybe we get lucky with some of the recent draft picks but I doubt it. Once upon a time Evgeny Grachev was going to be the power forwarded we needed and Pashnin was going to run the power play.
That's a 6.25 percent chance that you end up with an NHL player after the first round. Not only are these guys not becoming top 6 forwards or top 4 D men, they're not even making it into the league.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
...that's almost an entire Top-6 of players and that's not even including our 1st rounders...
(Not to mention that's completely unfair to include recent drafts, and even more so to discount Sauer who was an extremely solid defensemen before a career ending injury)
So, in 4 drafts, without even counting our 1st rounders, we had almost a complete homegrown top 6.
This is like bizarro world.
(Not to mention that's completely unfair to include recent drafts, and even more so to discount Sauer who was an extremely solid defensemen before a career ending injury)
So, in 4 drafts, without even counting our 1st rounders, we had almost a complete homegrown top 6.
This is like bizarro world.
Cigar City
Registered User
When Stamkos went down with the leg injury, Marty was BADDDDD. Really bad, for about 5-10 games if I recall correctly. Then we switched up the lines and put him with Johnson and Palat and the magic was back.
From my perspective, and it's just my opinion based off of his time in TB, it's a tough transition that is just getting tougher. I think he was expecting to be able to jump right in and contribute, like we all were, but other factors are involved.
I think:
- More pressure is being put on him each game he doesn't have an impact.
- He's not used to sharing so much of the ice. For example, Stamkos was just talking about life without Marty in an interview and said Marty ALWAYS wanted the puck on his stick in transition, so Stamkos could start skating up ice a lot sooner, but now he has to be the one to carry the puck. It doesn't seem like that's the type of system he is playing in.
- Callahan contributing immediately is getting to him a little bit.
- And maybe there actually is a family issue bothering him?
I can't really explain it, but I've already written a book on my opinion, clearly.
Long story short, someone said they were going to laugh when he puts up ppg in the playoffs, and I think that situation is overwhelmingly likely.
SA16
Sixstring
Cally wanted his pay day, nothing wrong with that. He earned it, worked hard for this team, Rangers did not want to give it to him so they threw him overboard. So now he said, F the Rangers will show you what I can still do. As per Tampa, he has been the spark there, and the players and coaches are praising him for a reason. He held the team on his own shoulders last game, scored both goals, and made huge defensive plays to keep the score tied and to go into OT.
I just don't think some fans understand the concept of two-way hockey, they see a guy in MSL who can score goals and put up a lot points, but is he going to do the dirty work, is he going to give his body up for a possible game saving goal in the playoffs? will he check guys to create turnovers and whatnot? Fans here really did not appreciate Ryan Callahan. Not saying he should of gotten paid whatever, no, but when it came over a NTC, something should of bent, sorry.
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
What do you disagree with? When you're drafting number 1 and Sidney Crosby happens to be draft eligible you don't exactly need to round up all the Nobel Prize candidates for that year to make your decision. None of those guys was a "reach" or a "surprise."
You can bring up a team like Detroit that consistently scores big with later picks like Datsyuk and Zetterberg but to quote Ken Holland - "If we had known they were that good we wouldn't have waited all those rounds to draft them." Detroit's success has just as much to do with the system and the culture those picks are placed into AFTER the draft (ie player development) as the draft itself. On the Rangers, Gustav Nyquist would have been shuttling back and forth between Hartford and New York the year he was drafted. On Detroit, he gets drafted in 2008, gets years of uninterrupted seasoning with minimal pressure, finally gets the call and is ready to be an instant contributor.
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
Way to ignore the post that I quoted which specifically referenced draft picks after the first round.
Also, way to ignore the part where I conceded that we might get lucky with the recent picks.
How far back do you want me to go? I guarantee you the percentage won't change but I'll make the list for you if you really want.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I disagree that all teams are equal at drafting. Go ask Canucks fans about that, lol.
And yes I agree that culture is important, which is exactly what I've been saying. My biggest gripe with a trade like this is the philosophy behind it.
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OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
- 184
Because if you have no picks in the 2nd round, like we did last year, then you have a 0% chance to even draft the Stepans or Anisimovs. It's better to at least have an opportunity to draft these players than to have no opportunity at all. You already stated you think draft picks are overrated so I'm not sure we will have any common ground here, I'll agree to disagree and not pursue this any further.
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
It's pretty clear right now that 99% of Marty's issues are mental. He's skating hard and getting to dirty areas so the effort is there. Still, he's fumbling pucks and not getting his shots off.
I honestly believe that once he scores a good goal, like a nice shot or a nice move, that the flood gate will open and we will see him start to play better and better. He just needs to get past the mental block right now.
I honestly believe that once he scores a good goal, like a nice shot or a nice move, that the flood gate will open and we will see him start to play better and better. He just needs to get past the mental block right now.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I don't even understand the point of that post. Those were all important players for us.
If anything that shows how important the draft is. That's also criminally unfair to include recent drafts and discount Michael Sauer.
Bizarro world.
OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
- 184
Exactly. Perhaps the Rangers should emphasize drafting and scouting more rather than just giving up and saying "oh well, our drafting is mediocre, let's just go after free agents and trade for players outside the organization." That's not going to work in a capped league.
SA16
Sixstring
There's been plenty of studies down that show the majority of drafting is luck. You can feel free to research them.
**By luck I mean that all teams at this level of sports have highly capable scouts and similar information on players. And mostly competent managing. Obviously if you have an NHL GM drafting against 29 random fans over the long term the GM would crush.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
You should probably forward those studies to NHL scouts. I've been following the St. Louis Blues and their building process since 2005-06, it's no surprise that all the work their management put in is paying off now.
Good stuff, thanks. I agree with those who say it's mostly in his head (unless he is injured), it's just so strange to see a player of his caliber freeze like this. He looked positively dynamic his first game.
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