Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

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Sol

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And when he does that he'll play AGAIN

I didn't see anything about a work ethic.

I didn't see anything about work ethic.

Valid observations.

Where's the mystery?
What do you think "wants to be successful" mean? That reads to me is that he's not trying hard enough to me. Do you think Kaliyev looks at himself and says "I dont want to be in the NHL" or something? The guy produces when given the chance and when he's producing he gets scratched.

How does any of that mesh with the bullshit that management is spreading? Do you think it's possible that management doesn't tell the truth?

"Todd's going to be our coach" Then fires him next month. Remember when Blake like what 3 weeks before said that Todd wont be fired? Do you seriously believe that the topic wasn't afoot? Lets focus on facts and the numerous contradictions by this organization. This organizaition is rife with disinformation and no one calls them out. Maybe Rosen, and Helen take potshots every now and then.

The fact of the matter is that Kaliyev is getting objectively shafted here and there hasn't been any leaks or information that fits the bill.

I guarantee that every person here besides SurfNutz and GBH thinks that this shit doesn't add up.
 
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All The Kings Men

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The fact of the matter is that Kaliyev is getting objectively shafted here and there hasn't been any leaks or information that fits the bill.
Give me one made up story that would offer an explanation that would suit you?

Usually in situations like this if a guy plays too much the joke is "jeez he must have pictures of someone" or if a guy is "shafted" you say "man what did he do run over the guys dog?"

McLellan laid it out pretty plainly.

So go ahead... come up with ONE insane conspiracy theory for what's going on.

Cus so far I keep seeing people talk about what a mystery is and yet I've never seen anybody try and do some basic theorizing using the publicly available information.

I'll even offer up my own theory (probably unwisely) but I want you to do your best story writing first before you start blaming the entire community of people who cover this team for failing to satisfy the bottomless pit of your curiosity.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

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It's just angers me man that they'd rather just f***ing let this guy and keep a bum like Lewis. You have a free asset in your hand who adds a rare dynamic to your team. Why are you f***ing with this guy?

Just such bullshit, I wish this organization got hiroshima'd.

Yeah but Lewie is friends with Drewie


I'll even offer up my own theory (probably unwisely) but I want you to do your best story writing first before you start blaming the entire community of people who cover this team for failing to satisfy the bottomless pit of your curiosity.

Thats' easy

He doesn't have a dog for the calendar
 

funky

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Who knows. Maybe he goes home and stays up to two in the morning holed up in his room playing PS5 when the brass thinks he should be getting sleep to train and practice that 5% harder.

Maybe his philosophy on workouts is differing from what the team wants and needs. He puts in the effort but not necessarily doing the stuff the team wants him to do.

Maybe he is just a prick and avoids teamates.

Maybe he has a shitty attitude that wears and grates on the team.

Maybe he doesn’t study the playbook and misses on ice assignments.

Maybe he was a one trick pony that many scouts warned us he might turn into if he didn’t put enough work into the rest of his game.

Maybe he is doing everything exactly right and we are led by idiots that don’t know what they are doing. I just can’t see that as guys like Blake played at such a high level, been in numerous locker rooms with a kind of players. I just can’t see a GM who seems to want to ice a winning team roast what once was a great prospect for no good reason, if there wasn’t something negative going on with that prospect. And Blake has no reason to tell anyone their dirty laundry on any players as it would surely drive down any value that player had.
 

tny760

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Maybe he is doing everything exactly right and we are led by idiots that don’t know what they are doing. I just can’t see that as guys like Blake played at such a high level, been in numerous locker rooms with a kind of players. I just can’t see a GM who seems to want to ice a winning team
one "word"

PLD
 
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Sol

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Give me one made up story that would offer an explanation that would suit you?

Usually in situations like this if a guy plays too much the joke is "jeez he must have pictures of someone" or if a guy is "shafted" you say "man what did he do run over the guys dog?"

McLellan laid it out pretty plainly.

So go ahead... come up with ONE insane conspiracy theory for what's going on.

Cus so far I keep seeing people talk about what a mystery is and yet I've never seen anybody try and do some basic theorizing using the publicly available information.

I'll even offer up my own theory (probably unwisely) but I want you to do your best story writing first before you start blaming the entire community of people who cover this team for failing to satisfy the bottomless pit of your curiosity.
Okay Jesse,

I usually like your commentary despite the fact its uninspiring. I wish you kept up this energy when speaking to organization but I know your entire image is being brand safe so being exceptionally bland is your forte.

Anyways, if I was to go out on a limb I think it has nothing to do with leaked photos or anything of that nature. I think the issue realistically is that the organization is trying to make a sniper into a grinder and they preach conformtity rather than let Kaliyev delve into his skillset. This smells like bruised egos and bullshit. They dont know how to handle a sniper. They f***ed up with Kovalchuk and they're doing it now. If someone like Blake has a job still despite his only success is consistency in failure, then I don't think the bar is that high when it comes to management/assessment. We have confirmed already with evidence that the Kings messaging and actions contradict one another pretty frequently so let's not heavily waste our time on what comes from the coaches. Lets focus on the actions.

Now tell me Jesse, what do you think the reason is? And try to add the same energy to your theory. It'd be a nice change of pace.
 
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Statto

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It's just angers me man that they'd rather just f***ing let this guy and keep a bum like Lewis. You have a free asset in your hand who adds a rare dynamic to your team. Why are you f***ing with this guy?

Just such bullshit, I wish this organization got hiroshima'd.
It’s not either/or. Lewis signed for peanuts and Kaliyev was qualified… he hasn’t signed his Q/O so either wants a raise or a trade.
 
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All The Kings Men

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Anyways, if I was to go out on a limb I think it has nothing to do with leaked photos or anything of that nature.
You know that's a cliche and is hyperbole right?

You've never heard the expression "they must have pictures of somebody"?

Like never? It's a fairly common expression implying that some situation or relationship is so absurd that the only possible explanation is blackmail.

It's not a sincere accusation or belief that compromising photos actually exist.

Here's a random sampling I found when I googled "must have pictures of somebody"

"Man, this guy makes me grab the mute button he is so stupid. He must have pictures of somebody [...], because there is no(expletive) way he passed an audition."

"Here is just how bad this LeClerc yoyo is. How is he still in the big league. He must have pictures of somebody doing something to somebody or something."

"Same guy, still. Not sure how he keeps his job with that winning personality of his. He must have pictures of somebody, or something!"

I'll confess that my current offerings are indeed "bland" (no offense bland) but c'mon man.

Meet me half way.
I think the issue realistically is that the organization is trying to make a sniper into a grinder and they preach conformtity rather than let Kaliyev delve into his skillset. This smells like bruised egos and bullshit. They dont know how to handle a sniper. They f***ed up with Kovalchuk and they're doing it now. If someone like Blake has a job still despite his only success is consistency in failure, then I don't think the bar is that high when it comes to management/assessment. We have confirmed already with evidence that the Kings messaging and actions contradict one another pretty frequently so let's not heavily waste our time on what comes from the coaches. Lets focus on the actions.
when the commentary and the actions contradict themselves you can ignore the commentary

when the commentary and the actions align I think you can find value in the commentary
Now tell me Jesse, what do you think the reason is? And try to add the same energy to your theory. It'd be a nice change of pace.
I'm not gonna connect every single dot because some of my thoughts are total speculation but I can tell you that (I think) everything I posted below is public record and verifiable.

Most of this is cut and paste from an earlier post I made. Some of it is cut and paste from other publicly available sources.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To start the preseason Kaliyev was on a line with Dubois and Fiala.

Kaliyev got suspended after the Oct. 3rd preseason game against the Ducks.

In that game he played 10:10 at even strength with Fiala and Dubois.

McLellan quote at the time of the suspension

"He's not going to lose his spot," said McLellan. "Last year when he went down with the foot injury, it started out as a short-term injury and ended up being quite a long-term injury. The fact that he didn't get a lot of skating in and the overall ability to carry that big body around diminished a little bit. That's unfortunate circumstances where he lost his job, but this suspension won't prevent him from working, and working really hard, and maintaining his ability to skate and be involved in practices. He's had a very good training camp and we expect that to continue on when he returns to the lineup in Winnipeg, I think it is."

In the last preseason game before the season started the team dressed 11 forwards and 7 defensemen and the lines were essentially

Byfield - Kopitar - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson

After Arvidsson got placed on LTIR to start the season and Kaliyev was suspended for the first two games of the season Laferriere replaced Kaliyev on the 22-80 line for two games.

As soon as Kaliyev served his suspension he joined Danault and Moore while Laferriere remained on the second line.

Kaliyev played with Moore and Danault from Game 3 to Game 13.

On October 19th McLellan said this of Kaliyev (in between games 3 and 4)

"That's the first regular season game we've seen Arty play. We saw him play in the exhibition season, we asked him to do a number of things over the summer that we think will help him become a better player, and yea he went on a different line last night but I think the big adaptation wasn't going to two new players it was what he had worked on over the summer. He looked faster, he looked quicker, more involved, more assertive. He beat a defenseman up ice all the way from the far end to score his goal. Those are all good signs. So I see your point and I agree with it but I'm gonna give him credit for the work he did before he got shuffled around on different lines."

SOMEWHERE around November 7th (between game 11 and game 12) Todd McLellan said the following (from my files... media availability recording)

"You can't ease your way in and I think some of our younger players have figured that out now. You have to put your work in and you have to earn your stripes. When you do, things go your way. Arthur did that over the summer. He's way better equipped now to play than he was in the past and I think anybody watching the game can see that."

In Game 14 v the Flyers Kaliyev was moved to a line with Laferriere and Dubois.

Fiala was moved to the line with Danault and Moore.

Fiala would go on to play almost 600 minutes with Danault and Moore. It was the second most common line combo the Kings used last season behind Byfield-Kopitar-Moore.

You can go back and find quotes from McLellan and Fiala et al about why the 80/22 pair was split up.

NOVEMBER 24th

they bumped Grundstrom up to the Dubois Laferriere line because Grundstrom had been off to a hot start and they wanted to help kick start PLD or at least that's the accepted narrative.

Kaliyev found himself on a line with JAD and Trevor Lewis. (I believe Lizotte was out with an injury?)

Up to that point
Kaliyev had 3 goals, 5 assits and was +5 in 15 games
averaging 14:29 per game
2:16 on the PP
0 points on the power play
and had been complimented multiple times for doing the work they asked him to do in the offseason and improving his overall game

The game that Kaliyev was placed with Lewis and JAD and Grundstrom bumped up was

11/24 a 5-2 win over the Ducks
11/25 a 4-0 win over MTL (Kaliyev w Lewis/JAD)
11/29 a 2-1 that 2-1 loss to the Washington Caps (34 w/ JAD/Lewis)
12/03 a 4-1 win over the Avs (34 w/ JAD/Lewis)

That led into the road trip where they beat Columbus in OT, shutout the Habs again and then got beat by the Islanders and Rangers on back to back nights on the road to end the unbeaten streak.

By January 26th, Kaliyev had been healthy scratched twice and we had open rumors about potential trades and Todd McLellan directly addressing a question about Kaliyev and referencing the rumors.

The Kings record from moving Kaliyev to the 4th line in favor of Carl Grundstrom til the All-Star Break when McLellan was relieved of his duties
12-12-7

----------------------------------------------

It's 2:31am and I woke up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep so forgive me for not tracking down every quote that I have a faint memory of but I seem to recall comments being made in conversations on All The Kings Men about things that happened at practice. I know that there are more tweets and clips from 32 Thoughts and other canadian media markets on the availability of Kaliyev and there's been quotes on here from people eavesdropping at various events around Kings dev camp etc.

TL;DR

Kaliyev was praised early and often for putting in work, improving his game and performing the way they wanted him to.

Kaliyev-Danault-Moore was a successful line and at the time they were broken up, Moore was on pace for 44 goals. Kaliyev was on a 22 goal/52 point pace. Danault was on a 19 goal/50 point pace.

CF% 58.58
xGF% 57.77
GF% 69.23

Dubois and Fiala were split up.
Shortly after that Grundstrom was promoted up the lineup to play with Dubois.

About two months after that we started hearing rumblings of potential trades for Kaliyev and hearing public statements from the coaching staff that he had to "work hard to fit" and "wanna be here, wanna be out there and wanna be successful" and that when he did that he would play again.

----------------------------------------------
EDIT: I tried to find the quotes to back up my memories but can't pull it off right now but I remember multiple occasions where Grundstrom, Moverare and JAD were all praised for their attitude when not getting into the lineup or being called up and down and not having the opportunities that they maybe wanted or in some cases earned.

I know I brought it up on an episode of ATKM asking if perhaps cultivating an environment of "complacency" among players/prospects wasn't necessarily a good thing.

11/23 - McLellan on JAD

"He's proven that hes been able to do that. Hes very focused and committed on his craft. Regardless of wether hes in the lineup or not hes planning on getting better everyday. I'm sure its mentally its hard on him. the team went on a pretty good run and we didnt flip the lineup aroun very much. that couldnt be easy but if there's an individual that can handle that it would be JAD"

Just poking around my files a bit more I found this quote from Oct 5th in the preseason.

"I'd like to talk about Arthur prior to training camp because we asked him to do a lot of things in the summer, physicality, the strengthening his engine so that he can play there and play their consistency, stretch some shift lengths out and not hurt the team but help the team contribute to the game when it's not just about shooting it in the net and I think we've seen that, pardon me, in the last three exhibition games. He's done his homework, he should feel confident, he deserves to be confident right now and we want to see him continue that as the season rolls in."
 
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tny760

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funniest part of all that grundstrom promotion was that he didn't score again for 29 games and now he's gone

well played well played

just gotta love how they waited til kaliyev was no longer waivers exempt to demote him into the dirt then wonder why he wants out. reasoning aside, we come back to the classic asset management issue
 

Schrute farms

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This is the same FO that actively went after a known lazy and effortless POS PLD. They gave WAY more than anyone else in the league would even dream of and promptly gave the guy a ridiculous 8 year contract sight unseen.

The same FO that played Durzi on his wrong side. Played him in late, tight games.

The same FO that gave up Faber as the RHD prospect to give up over the other 5,000 RHD prospects we had in our system.

The same FO that has hired & fired so many coaches that i've lost count now.

The same FO that pushes off-ice PR stuff more than on-ice. Seemingly without care for the small amount of die-hard fans.

You could go on obviously. The fact remains -- their judgement and evaluation as a FO is pretty bad. Now it may be 100% valid & correct here with AK34. But why should i give them the benefit of the doubt here -- especially with such little true info they give on the situation.
 

All The Kings Men

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The Kings have drafted only two players who have filled a top six role since drafting Adrian Kempe in 2014: Gabe Vilardi, and Quinton Byfield.

Those are also the only forwards they've drafted to put up 20-goal seasons in a 10-year span.

It's impressive how consistently bad they are at drafting/developing scoring talent.
Every time a team successfully drafts and develops a player in a top six role who holds that spot down for many many seasons (2003, 2005, 2014 etc) it reduces the number of opportunities for them to repeat that success and reduces the likelihood.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Just for fun, I took a look at how the Dave Taylor regime compared in drafting top six talent. He drafted five top six forwards in nine drafts.

Olli Jokinen (1997)
Alexander Frolov (2000)
Michael Cammalleri (2001)
Dustin Brown (2003)
Anze Kopitar (2005)


Under Lombardi, the Kings also drafted five forwards who filled top six roles (two of which did so after being dealt).

Wayne Simmonds (2007)
Brayden Schenn (2009)
Tyler Toffoli (2010)
Tanner Pearson (2012)
Adrian Kempe (2014)


The current regime has had eight drafts, and it's unfair to judge the last three drafts as of this moment, but since taking over in 2017, they've had two hits, and one of them was already dealt for a malcontent bum.
 

All The Kings Men

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Just for fun, I took a look at how the Dave Taylor regime compared in drafting top six talent. He drafted five top six forwards in nine drafts.

Olli Jokinen (1997)
Alexander Frolov (2000)
Michael Cammalleri (2001)
Dustin Brown (2003)
Anze Kopitar (2005)


Under Lombardi, the Kings also drafted five forwards who filled top six roles (two of which did so after being dealt).

Wayne Simmonds (2007)
Brayden Schenn (2009)
Tyler Toffoli (2010)
Tanner Pearson (2012)
Adrian Kempe (2014)


The current regime has had eight drafts, and it's unfair to judge the last three drafts as of this moment, but since taking over in 2017, they've had two hits, and one of them was already dealt for a malcontent bum.
Ok but Dave Taylor drafting Kopitar and Brown means two fewer spots for 18 years.

Frolov didn't leave until 2010.

Carter was here for almost 10 years. Kempe was drafted 10 years ago.
 

Ziggy Stardust

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Ok but Dave Taylor drafting Kopitar and Brown means two fewer spots for 18 years.

Frolov didn't leave until 2010.

Carter was here for almost 10 years. Kempe was drafted 10 years ago.

Seems like they get too comfortable leaning on and depending on these mainstays to hold the same position for so long, to the point that they struggle to find a successor to Kopitar. They haven't found anyone to really replace Brown.

Kempe really didn't graduate into that top six role until the likes of Toffoli and Carter were gone. While they were still here, Kempe was miscast and trying to find his identity on the team.
 

Vamos Rafa

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I also have a just for fun…but it’s not really fun considering it’s negative.

Okay, so outside of our golden years (2012-2014, 3 WCF, 2 Cups), we’ve been shit. You have to go all the way back to 2001 for the last playoff series win outside of those three years I mentioned. That’s why I don’t really have much faith in the AEG ownership. They seem to be satisfied with the 2012-14 runs for the rest of their lives.
 

Herby

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Every time a team successfully drafts and develops a player in a top six role who holds that spot down for many many seasons (2003, 2005, 2014 etc) it reduces the number of opportunities for them to repeat that success and reduces the likelihood.

Dustin Brown was not a top 6 caliber player for the final few years of his career, he was played there because the Kings never developed anyone capable of replacing him.

There is obviously something wrong with how the team evaluates, develops and deploys high-end pieces, I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise.

If anyone had told us after the 2019 season that the Kings would draft two forwards with #5 and #2 overall picks the next two drafts, and that entering the 2024/25 season those two picks would have a combined 92 points everyone here would have called it a disaster, and yet there is pushback for posting what @Ziggy Stardust posted, sorry but it's a fact.

Has a team gotten less actual production from back to back top 5 picks through 5 and 4 seasons than the Kings have gotten from Turcotte and Byfield? I'd have to look it up, but going off memory I can't think of any. Who is to blame for that?
 

Ziggy Stardust

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I also have a just for fun…but it’s not really fun considering it’s negative.

Okay, so outside of our golden years (2012-2014, 3 WCF, 2 Cups), we’ve been shit. You have to go all the way back to 2001 for the last playoff series win outside of those three years I mentioned. That’s why I don’t really have much faith in the AEG ownership. They seem to be satisfied with the 2012-14 runs for the rest of their lives.

Since 2014, the Kings have played in 27 playoff games, and have a record of 7-20 in those games.

Only two of those wins have come in regulation, and they have been outscored 64-97, which equates to 2.37 goals for and 3.59 goals against.

This is a team that's been in futility for a decade.
 

Herby

Now I can die in peace
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Since 2014, the Kings have played in 27 playoff games, and have a record of 7-20 in those games.

Only two of those wins have come in regulation, and they have been outscored 64-97, which equates to 2.37 goals for and 3.59 goals against.

This is a team that's been in futility for a decade.

The hilarious thing is, there are many people here who clown on other teams, when the Kings have been in the worst spot imaginable for an NHL team (not good enough to win, not bad enough to pick high) for the majority of the Blake regime. They only tried to suck for two of the seven seasons, yet have zero playoff series wins.

Also, on your other point, I think QB needs to take another step this season before we declare that pick a hit. If he had been a mid 1st rounder, ok 20 goals and 55 points is a hit pick. He was a #2 overall pick now entering his fifth pro season. I think the expectation for a player his age with where he was drafted should be something like a 30G/75Pt season to comfortably call it a hit pick.
 
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AbsentMojo

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I also have a just for fun…but it’s not really fun considering it’s negative.

Okay, so outside of our golden years (2012-2014, 3 WCF, 2 Cups), we’ve been shit. You have to go all the way back to 2001 for the last playoff series win outside of those three years I mentioned. That’s why I don’t really have much faith in the AEG ownership. They seem to be satisfied with the 2012-14 runs for the rest of their lives.
100%. It took the Ducks cup win to wake AEG the F up and do a proper rebuild last time - seems there was existential fear fans would leave for a winner since the Kings had never done shit. Im not sure even a Duck dynasty would snap them out of it this time.
 

Kurrilino

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The Kings have drafted only two players who have filled a top six role since drafting Adrian Kempe in 2014: Gabe Vilardi, and Quinton Byfield.

Those are also the only forwards they've drafted to put up 20-goal seasons in a 10-year span.

It's impressive how consistently bad they are at drafting/developing scoring talent.

I would like to point out that our play style of dumping the puck in and then lose the corner battles in WWE Royal Rumble style might not lead to scoring chances.


It really doesn't matter who we draft.
But in general i am with you on really bad drafting
 

AbsentMojo

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"He's got to fit the team, okay," said McLellan. "I know some of you guys are nodding because you're around the group long enough and you get it. You have to work hard to fit. And you've got to be a good, and I'm not saying that Arthur's not a good teammate, but you've got to be able to fit and want to be successful. And when he does that, he'll play again."
The stink of Todd's mind is still hanging over the org. Kaliyev didn't fit into Todd's values - overvalues 2 way-ed-ness..Todd is a guy who didnt see fit to deploy a talent like Byfield in OT based on some bizarre computation induced by Eucalyptus sickness. QB still has no OT goals while the team was < .500 in OT. Just an example of how raw talent is undervalued in Koala's world. Then you look at a guy like Vilardi who did develop his 2 way game and still got JETisoned.
 

Kurrilino

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The same FO that gave up Faber as the RHD prospect to give up over the other 5,000 RHD prospects we had in our system.

The same FO that has hired & fired so many coaches that i've lost count now.

The same FO that pushes off-ice PR stuff more than on-ice. Seemingly without care for the small amount of die-hard fans.
I believe hiring exactly the same coach after the former one was fired has something to do with that.
 
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