Speculation: Fire Glen Sather

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Shame on whoever is bumping this thread. Win or lose there will be an entire summer to discuss 'fire glen sather', but this is not the time.

Most of you know my feelings on Sather, but this is not even the time to discuss them. Let's all row in the same direction for a change, and discuss this in three weeks.

We have a common enemy right now (or we will soon), and it is not each other.

I agree--but the boys still have to work it through.

LGR

 

[Tawnos]

Shame on whoever is bumping this thread. Win or lose there will be an entire summer to discuss 'fire glen sather', but this is not the time.

Most of you know my feelings on Sather, but this is not even the time to discuss them. Let's all row in the same direction for a change, and discuss this in three weeks.

We have a common enemy right now (or we will soon), and it is not each other.

Agreed. All I thought when I saw this thread come back up again was "who really cares right now?"

 

[Thirty One]

Let the Rangers win the Cup so Sather can go out on top.

And, you know, so they can win the Cup.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

And, you know, so they can win the Cup.

Wrong again!

The sole purpose the Rangers players have for winning the cup this round is to force James Dolan to hire a GM that will build a team that will let them win the cup.

I don't care that he won 5 cups in Edmonton, and I don't care that this team has been successful and we are in range to win the cup in 2014. He **** the bed from 2000-2004, so just hand him the cup on the ice, and show this loser the door.

 

[Thirty One]

Wrong again!

The sole purpose the Rangers players have for winning the cup this round is to force James Dolan to hire a GM that will build a team that will let them win the cup.

I don't care that he won 5 cups in Edmonton, and I don't care that this team has been successful and we are in range to win the cup in 2014. He **** the bed from 2000-2004, so just hand him the cup on the ice, and show this loser the door.

Seems reasonable.

 

[RangerBlues]

Slats inherited a team with ZERO organizational anything but lots of money.
Not even a 4th line interchangeable part.
No cohesive player development system.
No drafting philosophy.
IN SLATS WE TRUST!

 

[jerseyjinx94]

My dad told me a bunch of fans were calling into the FAN to praise Sather today.

Bunch of fickle ******** these NYers are.

In all seriousness, Sather has not been nearly as bad as some of you make him out to be.

3rd round, 2nd round, Cup Finals.

Pretty damn good.

 

[17futurecap]

A story from Game 5 of the East finals in Montreal: There was Sather minding his own business in the press box suite assigned to Rangers management when a Canadiens representative entered and instructed the GM to remove the omnipresent cigar — unlit, by the way — from his mouth or else the home team would sic the fire marshal on him.

First: Who else in this day and age do you know of who chomps on an unlit cigar? Second: Sather told the fellow to by all means have the Canadiens send the fire marshal up if that’s what they intended to do. Third: The issue was dropped. Fourth: Do not mess around with old school.

Good read on Sather from Brooks. http://nypost.com/2014/05/30/old-school-sather-pushes-all-the-right-buttons-for-rangers/

 

[Beacon]

Wrong again!

The sole purpose the Rangers players have for winning the cup this round is to force James Dolan to hire a GM that will build a team that will let them win the cup.

I don't care that he won 5 cups in Edmonton, and I don't care that this team has been successful and we are in range to win the cup in 2014. He **** the bed from 2000-2004, so just hand him the cup on the ice, and show this loser the door.

Is this for real or sarcastic?

Why is 2000-04 still relevant? Even if he did a bad job then, is it not possible that he improved as a GM?

1. The team under his management drafted better than the vast majority of the league. Look for my past threads that I started on this very topic where I showed that he drafted more and better players than the vast majority of the league. Giving credit to Maloney and Gorton is wrong. For one, you don't know the inside workings of the team. Two, while Maloney and Gorton weren't here the full 10 years and neither were most key scouts, Slats has been the one variable that remained the same as the team drafted well.

2. Slats traded better than most teams. If you look at all that he's given up (Gabby, Dubi, Cally, AA, MDZ, Rosie, etc) and what he's acquired (Nash, St. Louis, Brass, McDonagh, Boyle, etc), he's gotten much, much more value overall than what he gave up since the lockout.

3. He's done a great job identifying undrafted free agents like Girardi, Zuccarello, Talbot and soon Allen.

4. While you may hate the contracts he's given out, in several cases other GMs considered these contracts reasonable enough to give us McDonagh, Prust, Moore, Brass, Dorsett for these. Certainly signings like Stralman, Rosie, Pouliot, Moore, Feds worked out well. The ones that were not great like Brash, Frolov, etc were short term and not killers, certainly worth a try. It was the same ideology that eventually led us to acquire Carcillo and Zuccarello. You try things, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. But the way Slats did it made sure that the ones who failed didn't harm us long-term, while the ones that succeeded helped us for years to come.

Did Drury, Redden and to a lesser degree Richards work out? No, but it's hard to make everything work, and in the case of Richards, he's a key contributor to our Finals run.

All in all, his signings did more good than bad. Without his signings, no McDonagh, Moore, Richards, Brassard and Dorsett, and we don't make the playoffs. Obviously all of you want to sign a UFA to an RFA contract, but that is ridiculous. Every time a person says that a UFA deserves the same salary as an RFA, he not only displays his lack of hockey knowledge, but his inability to understand how life works.

5. Slats hired 3 quality coaches since the lockout, each contributing to the team's success and teaching the squad better hockey. Our goalie coach is likely the best one in the league and part of the success our goalies have had in recent years is due to Slats hiring him.

6. The Rangers have gone to at least the second round the last 3 years, winning 6 rounds of hockey so far, maybe 7 if we win the Cup. We were also one win away from the President's Trophy in 2012.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Is this for real or sarcastic?

Why is 2000-04 still relevant? Even if he did a bad job then, is it not possible that he improved as a GM?

1. The team under his management drafted better than the vast majority of the league. Look for my past threads that I started on this very topic where I showed that he drafted more and better players than the vast majority of the league. Giving credit to Maloney and Gorton is wrong. For one, you don't know the inside workings of the team. Two, while Maloney and Gorton weren't here the full 10 years and neither were most key scouts, Slats has been the one variable that remained the same as the team drafted well.

2. Slats traded better than most teams. If you look at all that he's given up (Gabby, Dubi, Cally, AA, MDZ, Rosie, etc) and what he's acquired (Nash, St. Louis, Brass, McDonagh, Boyle, etc), he's gotten much, much more value overall than what he gave up since the lockout.

3. He's done a great job identifying undrafted free agents like Girardi, Zuccarello, Talbot and soon Allen.

4. While you may hate the contracts he's given out, in several cases other GMs considered these contracts reasonable enough to give us McDonagh, Prust, Moore, Brass, Dorsett for these. Certainly signings like Stralman, Rosie, Pouliot, Moore, Feds worked out well. The ones that were not great like Brash, Frolov, etc were short term and not killers, certainly worth a try. It was the same ideology that eventually led us to acquire Carcillo and Zuccarello. You try things, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. But the way Slats did it made sure that the ones who failed didn't harm us long-term, while the ones that succeeded helped us for years to come.

Did Drury, Redden and to a lesser degree Richards work out? No, but it's hard to make everything work, and in the case of Richards, he's a key contributor to our Finals run.

All in all, his signings did more good than bad. Without his signings, no McDonagh, Moore, Richards, Brassard and Dorsett, and we don't make the playoffs. Obviously all of you want to sign a UFA to an RFA contract, but that is ridiculous. Every time a person says that a UFA deserves the same salary as an RFA, he not only displays his lack of hockey knowledge, but his inability to understand how life works.

5. Slats hired 3 quality coaches since the lockout, each contributing to the team's success and teaching the squad better hockey. Our goalie coach is likely the best one in the league and part of the success our goalies have had in recent years is due to Slats hiring him.

6. The Rangers have gone to at least the second round the last 3 years, winning 6 rounds of hockey so far, maybe 7 if we win the Cup. We were also one win away from the President's Trophy in 2012.

TL;DR

When Sather organizes a deal that will send $10 million + to a team to purchase perhaps the greatest player of all time to lead us to the finals as Smith did, I will get get off Sather's back for getting us to the finals.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Slats inherited a team with ZERO organizational anything but lots of money.
Not even a 4th line interchangeable part.
No cohesive player development system.
No drafting philosophy.
IN SLATS WE TRUST!

OK. Doesn't explain the course of action he took when he took over, though.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

TL;DR

When Sather organizes a deal that will send $10 million + to a team to purchase perhaps the greatest player of all time to lead us to the finals as Smith did, I will get get off Sather's back for getting us to the finals.

The equivalent to plugging your ears and sticking your tongue out on the playground. When by the way did Smith do that?

Pocklington got 2 million. Not only that but the exchange of money for players which isn't allowed anymore was more of the owners decision considering its their money.

Sather did just make the decision to trade his Captain for a player that would lead him to the finals.

 

[NickyFotiu]

OK. Doesn't explain the course of action he took when he took over, though.

Hypothetically if you were hired by the NYR in 2000 instead of Slats how many years would it have taken you to make the playoffs? Win the cup?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The equivalent to plugging your ears and sticking your tongue out on the playground. When by the way did Smith do that?

Pocklington got 2 million. Not only that but the exchange of money for players which isn't allowed anymore was more of the owners decision considering its their money.

Sather did just make the decision to trade his Captain for a player that would lead him to the finals.

The Rangers sent $10 million to the franchise , and $2 million lined Pocklington's pockets.

Sather buried the hatchet with an old Messier while Smith bought a young Messier.

And in terms of trading our captain, we still gave an extra 30th pick if we win the cup. We could easily get a puck moving defensemen to play with McIlrath when he makes the team next season.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Hypothetically if you were hired by the NYR in 2000 instead of Slats how many years would it have taken you to make the playoffs? Win the cup?

Exactly!

After Smith missed the playoffs for 3 years, every one got all uppity demanding change. If the franchise stayed the course, the Rangers would have been dominant by 2002.

 

[Beacon]

The Rangers sent $10 million to the franchise , and $2 million lined Pocklington's pockets.

Sather buried the hatchet with an old Messier while Smith bought a young Messier.

And in terms of trading our captain, we still gave an extra 30th pick if we win the cup. We could easily get a puck moving defensemen to play with McIlrath when he makes the team next season.

The 29th or 30th overall pick has about a 25-30% chance of playing in the NHL. The idea that we would "easily get a PMD" with that pick is ridiculous. If we had gotten someone as good as MDZ with that pick, we would've felt very lucky. Odds are that whatever PMD will get picked around the 27-32 spot will turn into another Mike Vernace.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The 29th or 30th overall pick has about a 25-30% chance of playing in the NHL. The idea that we would "easily get a PMD" with that pick is ridiculous. If we had gotten someone as good as MDZ with that pick, we would've felt very lucky. Odds are that whatever PMD will get picked around the 27-32 spot will turn into another Mike Vernace.

This man could do it! He could do anything...

/thread

 

[kovazub94]

Exactly!

After Smith missed the playoffs for 3 years, every one got all uppity demanding change. If the franchise stayed the course, the Rangers would have been dominant by 2002.

Wow, every statement of yours on this page is of trolling type. Ignoring valid reasoning, putting forth baseless statements etc.

Posting just for the sake of keeping this thing going?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I'm not a huge fan of Sather, but results are results.

If the Rangers win the cup, he will go down as one of the most successful Rangers general managers.

In terms of playoff appearance and success, the Rangers haven't played this well since the Emile Francis era that included no cups.

In terms of Smith, he did get the cup. No one could ever take that accolade from him, but if the Rangers win the cup this year, how could anyone say Smith was better than Sather in terms of the overall playoff appearance and success.

Yes, Sather inherited the most barren Ranger team that ever existed, and the corporate culture at the Garden prior to the salary cap was despicable.

Here is my original post.

I tried logic, and I even admitted I was not a fan of Sather. I often attempt this approach first, yet it is rarely effective.

Prior to posting in any thread, aside from the GDT, I read the entire thread. I am well aware of the few substantial and many ridiculous responses in each thread. I am framing an absurd argument.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Agreed. All I thought when I saw this thread come back up again was "who really cares right now?"

It was a massive, contentious debate with a LOT of nastiness and mud flung. It's hard to imagine that given the way things have unfolded on the ice and on this board that this thread would go untouched.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Here is my original post.

I tried logic, and I even admitted I was not a fan of Sather. I often attempt this approach first, yet it is rarely effective.

Prior to posting in any thread, aside from the GDT, I read the entire thread. I am well aware of the few substantial and many ridiculous responses in each thread. I am framing an absurd argument.

And you're one of the best in the HF biz at it (in a good way). All praise the sarcasm king!

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

And you're one of the best in the HF biz at it (in a good way). All praise the sarcasm king!

Thanks! I really appreciate your response!

 

[RangerBlues]

OK. Doesn't explain the course of action he took when he took over, though.

He took the only course he had. Money. The organization had nothing going on at any level.
People saw the big name GM and wanted instant gratification.
Slats took over a franchise that was a mess.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

The Rangers sent $10 million to the franchise , and $2 million lined Pocklington's pockets.

Sather buried the hatchet with an old Messier while Smith bought a young Messier.

And in terms of trading our captain, we still gave an extra 30th pick if we win the cup. We could easily get a puck moving defensemen to play with McIlrath when he makes the team next season.

Neil Smith had brought him here, in a bold, long-rumored trade that will surely decide the near future of both the franchise and the Rangers' general manager. In exchange for the 30-year-old Messier and future considerations, high-scoring Bernie Nicholls and two young prospects, Steven Rice and Louie DeBrusk, were sent to Edmonton.
No cash was involved. Just faith in a man with the jaw of Arnold Schwarzenegger and the trophy case of Robert DeNiro.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/05/sports/hockey-rangers-roll-the-dice-and-trade-for-messier.html

I've never seen where they sent money to the Oilers, I have seen where Pocklington admitted to receiving 2 million.

We can easily get a puck moving D-man from UFA, if we even need one. Had the exchange of money not been possible and this 10 million you are alluding to did exchange hands you that's worth more than a 29th or 30th overall pick.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/05/sports/hockey-rangers-roll-the-dice-and-trade-for-messier.html

I've never seen where they sent money to the Oilers, I have seen where Pocklington admitted to receiving 2 million.

We can easily get a puck moving D-man from UFA, if we even need one. Had the exchange of money not been possible and this 10 million you are alluding to did exchange hands you that's worth more than a 29th or 30th overall pick.

You got angry at me for my sarcastic TL;DR, yet you decided no to read the last 5-7 posts.