Post-Game Talk: Fire Everyone

[McRanger92]

 

[CLW]

The only people who wanted Frank Vatrano back were the beat writers who liked talking to him.

Some here talked about him longingly around last year's TDL.

 

[McRanger92]

This team doesn't have a leadership problem and I think it's silly that so many posters here are so confident they know what's going on in the locker room. The team has a bad player problem. Some are just bad, others are just playing awful at the moment. And no rah-rah speech in between periods is going to help that. They need to play through it. A trade now, except maybe Trouba or Lindgren, is silly. The entire league knows Drury MO, he'd get more for some of these guys at the deadline than he'd get first week in December.

A lot of the media people in the locker room think there's a locker room issue.

 

[bhamill]

No the team is just devoid of talent, despite averaging 110 points the last 3 seasons and having the best season in the franchise history last year.

Even ignoring the obvious locker room problems, it's undeniable that the core players need to change and soon.

Commitment and consistent effort are also “talents”… in that way this team isn’t talented enough. Plus I think we can all agree we need more conventional talent in the D corps.
It’s not one or the other, we need more talent and we need to ship out veteran players who have checked out, and hope the young players can shake the infection.
I generally agree with like 95% of what you post, but the Laf contract being responsible for this clusterfück? I don’t see it. And if a veteran reaction to it IS the problem, those vets need to go.

Edit. Apparently by using ü I stead of u, f***/FÜCK doesn’t get censored! Im like 10 years old or something.

 

[noncents]

Captain Cuylle can handle those responsibilities

i can think of no worse, more knee-jerk reaction to a bad stretch of play than making Will Cuylle, a good young player in his 2nd NHL season, Captain.

Hockey teams function well when there is veteran leadership showing the way. Regardless of the criticisms of Zib, Kreider, Panarin, and Trocheck, for their talent and ability or style of play, and valid though those criticisms may be, you cannot get rid of all veteran players. Then you do become the Sabres.

Furthermore, I still believe that Trocheck and Panarin can be valuable veteran leaders on a team - setting the goals, setting the tone. Trocheck wants to play with fire and ferocity. Panarin is an offensive minded player but he does give his all, and I think he cares.

Trouba was brought here to be that guy but it was a failed experiment. He is neither the player nor the leader that this team needed, and the cap allocated to him has hamstrung the teams ability to improve.

Zibanejad is setting an extremely poor example with his play. I wont speculate on emotional, physical, or other reasons as to why his engagement level has fallen so drastically, but it is clear that it has. He is simply not engaged in play. This has not resulted in any change in deployment or narrative, but the perspective is changing. Listen to Micheletti, etc. The team is not happy with him and he's not deserving of his A.

Kreider is the tough one. This is a guy who has bled blue, in his way, and become a really special player for them. Playoff hero, long tenure, etc. I personally think he is capable of providing proper leadership to a burgeoning younger core and would be fine playing a 3rd line + ST ace role.

The preponderance of clauses on these highly compensated players' contracts makes solving the leadership/culture issue (separate but not related to the talent issue as well as the coaching/deployment issue) a very prickly proposition.

Kreider is the easiest to move. Zibanejad the hardest. Trouba and Panarin in the middle, former easier to move than the latter. Unclear how to navigate what has become a very murky and yucky situation.


What is kind of preposterous though is how many posters here think they are ALL the problem and that they should ALL be summarily dismissed. I know the team sucks right now and the memo/open for business narrative is shitty optically but get a grip. It's neither optimal nor realistic for all of these 5 players to be shipped off (6 if you're including Fox, which some people do for reasons i can't understand). You need veteran leadership in the room. It's best if your veteran leaders are actually strong players as well as committed players. So to actively hate and root against these 5 guys, hoping that bad things happen to them on the ice as a way of I Told You So-ing some straw man, is just entirely counterproductive.

 

[McRanger92]

Commitment and consistent effort are also “talents”… in that way this team isn’t talented enough. Plus I think we can all agree we need more conventional talent in the D corps.
It’s not one or the other, we need more talent and we need to ship out veteran players who have checked out, and hope the young players can shake the infection.
I generally agree with like 95% of what you post, but the Laf contract being responsible for this clusterfück? I don’t see it. And if a veteran reaction to it IS the problem, those vets need to go.

I hope it's not true but look at what we do know. These guys are very aware of their contracts and compensation. Reports saying Igor wants to be the highest paid player on the team, ahead of Panarin. Multiple reports saying the team is upset that Goodrow was "screwed over". Trouba purposely using his NTC to kneecap Drury. Young players (Kakko) talking about wanting more icetime. Is anyone on this team's top priority winning the Stanley Cup?

 

[McRanger92]

i can think of no worse, more knee-jerk reaction to a bad stretch of play than making Will Cuylle, a good young player in his 2nd NHL season, Captain.

Hockey teams function well when there is veteran leadership showing the way. Regardless of the criticisms of Zib, Kreider, Panarin, and Trocheck, for their talent and ability or style of play, and valid though those criticisms may be, you cannot get rid of all veteran players. Then you do become the Sabres.

Furthermore, I still believe that Trocheck and Panarin can be valuable veteran leaders on a team - setting the goals, setting the tone. Trocheck wants to play with fire and ferocity. Panarin is an offensive minded player but he does give his all, and I think he cares.

Trouba was brought here to be that guy but it was a failed experiment. He is neither the player nor the leader that this team needed, and the cap allocated to him has hamstrung the teams ability to improve.

Zibanejad is setting an extremely poor example with his play. I wont speculate on emotional, physical, or other reasons as to why his engagement level has fallen so drastically, but it is clear that it has. He is simply not engaged in play. This has not resulted in any change in deployment or narrative, but the perspective is changing. Listen to Micheletti, etc. The team is not happy with him and he's not deserving of his A.

Kreider is the tough one. This is a guy who has bled blue, in his way, and become a really special player for them. Playoff hero, long tenure, etc. I personally think he is capable of providing proper leadership to a burgeoning younger core and would be fine playing a 3rd line + ST ace role.

The preponderance of clauses on these highly compensated players' contracts makes solving the leadership/culture issue (separate but not related to the talent issue as well as the coaching/deployment issue) a very prickly proposition.

Kreider is the easiest to move. Zibanejad the hardest. Trouba and Panarin in the middle, former easier to move than the latter. Unclear how to navigate what has become a very murky and yucky situation.


What is kind of preposterous though is how many posters here think they are ALL the problem and that they should ALL be summarily dismissed. I know the team sucks right now and the memo/open for business narrative is shitty optically but get a grip. It's neither optimal nor realistic for all of these 5 players to be shipped off (6 if you're including Fox, which some people do for reasons i can't understand). You need veteran leadership in the room. It's best if your veteran leaders are actually strong players as well as committed players. So to actively hate and root against these 5 guys, hoping that bad things happen to them on the ice as a way of I Told You So-ing some straw man, is just entirely counterproductive.

Im joking about Cuylle as captain. He is the only player on the team who has played like a leader since that memo went out. The leadership is rotten and needs to be changed. Keep Trocheck and one of Kreider/Panarin if we need to have veterans who dont backcheck or hustle.. The rest can go.

 

[bhamill]

Paywall. They aren’t getting one thin dime from me.

A lot of the media people in the locker room think there's a locker room issue.

So do I. When your leaders are checked out they aren’t leading…

 

[McRanger92]

Paywall. They aren’t getting one thin dime from me.

@Mike in Houston transcribed the article this morning in the RBT i believe

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

A lot of the media people in the locker room think there's a locker room issue.

They're all speculating. Nothing specific has come out and if they knew, they'd say it. This team is so uptight, it's like they're just waiting for the next bad thing to happen. And then it snowballs. This shit gets in your head. But these are the same guys who stared down elimination games like it was nothing a few years back. I don't think that goes away. I don't think guys like Panarin, Trocheck, Zib and Kreider come back less motivated this year after how last season ended. You think they don't know time is running out? You think they don't want to win a Cup here and are just collecting a paycheck. If you want to blame anyone, blame Drury. He's made things worse. He literally cut Trouba's balls off this summer. That's a bad spot to put your captain in.

 

[bhamill]

I hope it's not true but look at what we do know. These guys are very aware of their contracts and compensation. Reports saying Igor wants to be the highest paid player on the team, ahead of Panarin. Multiple reports saying the team is upset that Goodrow was "screwed over". Trouba purposely using his NTC to kneecap Drury. Young players (Kakko) talking about wanting more icetime. Is anyone on this team's top priority winning the Stanley Cup?

Young players wanting more ice time I get. Especially when it’s warranted. They want to help. That’s what you want, not complacency. The rest is BAD.

@Mike in Houston transcribed the article this morning in the RBT i believe

RBT?
Edit: Roster Building. Oof. Didn’t finish my first coffee yet. Haha.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Is this a psychiatry board now? Hahaha. Extreme cases of schizophrenia sometimes manifest in multiple distinct personalities that may hold completely different and diametrically opposing views. Was it really THAT hard to fathom? I guess that’s my bad.

No, that's Multiple Personality Disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you're going to use mental illness so willy nilly then do so correctly.

 

[toNYRico]

Paging Joel Quenneville ...

 

[McRanger92]

They're all speculating. Nothing specific has come out and if they knew, they'd say it. This team is so uptight, it's like they're just waiting for the next bad thing to happen. And then it snowballs. This shit gets in your head. But these are the same guys who stared down elimination games like it was nothing a few years back. I don't think that goes away. I don't think guys like Panarin, Trocheck, Zib and Kreider come back less motivated this year after how last season ended. You think they don't know time is running out? You think they don't want to win a Cup here and are just collecting a paycheck. If you want to blame anyone, blame Drury. He's made things worse. He literally cut Trouba's balls off this summer. That's a bad spot to put your captain in.

Give me a break. Trouba cut his own balls off. The guy has been atrocious for the life of his contract. He hits a young player with his head down once every couple months and were supposed to think he's some great leader. He's the king of the frauds. I think the team got badly exposed against Florida (our top guys were also our worst players in that series), and when they couldnt make any changes, they all know deep down this season was a futile effort. Their captain said as much at the start of training camp.

 

[bhamill]

No, that's Multiple Personality Disorder or Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you're going to use mental illness so willy nilly then do so correctly.

View attachment 939333

Well, I obviously haven’t kept up on the ever changing psychiatric classification studies, and it was a joke not an actual diagnosis, but in hindsight “using mental illness willy nilly,” even correctly might cause some members unnecessary discomfort, so consider my joke officially retracted.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Give me a break. Trouba cut his own balls off. The guy has been atrocious for the life of his contract. He hits a young player with his head down once every couple months and were supposed to think he's some great leader. He's the king of the frauds. I think the team got badly exposed against Florida (our top guys were also our worst players in that series), and when they couldnt make any changes, they all know deep down this season was a futile effort. Their captain said as much at the start of training camp.

Trouba is awful, I wished he would have agreed to a trade this summer but he didn't. It's on the GM to keep the ship steady and he hasn't. That memo or whatever you want to call it was dumb and it backfired. Not from a guy giving up perspective but from making the team unnecessarily uptight so early in the season. You don't like the way things are going Chris? Stop with the tough guy attitude and hold a closed door meeting with your team. That's well within his rights. And yes, going public trying to trade your captain twice in less than four months is cutting your captains nuts off. It was stupid. Drury needs to be better in how he goes about his business.

 

[McRanger92]

Trouba is awful, I wished he would have agreed to a trade this summer but he didn't. It's on the GM to keep the ship steady and he hasn't. That memo or whatever you want to call it was dumb and it backfired. Not from a guy giving up perspective but from making the team unnecessarily uptight so early in the season. You don't like the way things are going Chris? Stop with the tough guy attitude and hold a closed door meeting with your team. That's well within his rights. And yes, going public trying to trade your captain twice in less than four months is cutting your captains nuts off. It was stupid. Drury needs to be better in how he goes about his business.

Drury should waive Trouba in 15 minutes and be done with it. What good is a malcontent captain who is a bad player on his best day? His presence on the team is certainly not helping them move forward and play better.

 

[94leetch]

The game last night was over 5 minutes deep.
That's not just a talent problem.

 

[McRanger92]

The game last night was over 5 minutes deep.
That's not just a talent problem.

Rivalry games only mean anything to fans nowadays. Did a Ranger throw a hit last night? I didnt notice any. At least they were engaged in the game on Saturday against the Habs.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Drury should waive Trouba in 15 minutes and be done with it. What good is a malcontent captain who is a bad player on his best day? His presence on the team is certainly not helping them move forward and play better.

Agreed. I blame Trouba for his shit play on the ice. I blame Drury for hamstringing him while he's still under contract and the captain. Being a GM isn't easy but Chris the Wunderkind isn't helping his cause.

 

[94leetch]

Rivalry games only mean anything to fans nowadays. Did a Ranger throw a hit last night? I didnt notice any. At least they were engaged in the game on Saturday against the Habs.

I don't care who they're playing, push back with something, anything.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Rivalry games only mean anything to fans nowadays. Did a Ranger throw a hit last night? I didnt notice any. At least they were engaged in the game on Saturday against the Habs.

I think it was the best they've played in like two weeks. It's not saying much but if things weren't so bleak it would have been a burn the tape kinda game. They had chances, their goalie played great.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't care who they're playing, push back with something, anything.

Rempe wasn't playing so in their heads they aren't allowed to play physical or else they might have to *gasp* fight their own battles.

I think it was the best they've played in like two weeks.

The game was over before the first commercial break. Id say credit to them for not giving up, but they kinda did by the end.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Well, I obviously haven’t kept up on the ever changing psychiatric classification studies, and it was a joke not an actual diagnosis, but in hindsight “using mental illness willy nilly,” even correctly might cause some members unnecessary discomfort, so consider my joke officially retracted.

It's not you, it's a pet peeve of mine. A lot of people do it. I don't think it's that big of a deal to use mental illness to make some points but it annoys me when people do that and use it incorrectly. Even if it wasn't mental illness I probably would have been annoyed because it's used wrong. It's like saying "I could care less". But thank you.

 

[94leetch]

I watched Devils players blocking shots with their bodies, it looked like the rivalry meant something to them.