Player Discussion Fire Dustin Schwartz

[oobga]

I will just say that it's really weird for a coach to hold onto a job as long as Schwartz has, with such poor results as he's had. This guy is probably the most tenured guy in this org now aside from Kevin Lowe, and no one really understands why. Something like 4 GM's, few POHO's and half a dozen coaches and this guy just keeps surviving while goaltending remains a concern the whole way through. It's just weird.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Schwartz has never been able to deliver quality goaltending or even consistently average goaltending and he’s had plenty of input on drafting, development and goaltenders brought in.

They should have moved Schwartz into some front office goaltending position and promoted Rodrigue to goalie coach instead of letting him walk. Not surprising the Panthers wanted him in their organization.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Ten years, goaltending never a strength. If you believe he’s good at his job then you can’t ever complain about goaltending again.

It's called drafting. Oilers have never drafted a stud goalie.

So your point that it's the GC fault is pretty silly

 

[CanadasTeam99]

His last name goes in line with maybe being some sort of Nepo hire. Who knows. Just odd how he is invincible. I would go poach Ian Clark from Vancouver. All I have heard is that he is unhappy and removed himself from being the goalie coach.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It's called drafting. Oilers have never drafted a stud goalie.

So your point that it's the GC fault is pretty silly

Weird, Dubnyk became a stud... after he left the team. Certainly not the Oilers fault, no way.

But here's some more food for thought, bobby. Think about the most common criticisms of Skinner. First shot goes in, bad glove, etc... Weren't those the same things we roasted Koskinen for? And Talbot?

 

[Louis Cypher]

I have a feeling we will be fighting and dying on the Skinner Hill.

Is there any hope from the kids?
Leading Goalies Condors
Rank Name SV%
1 O. Rodrigue 92.9%
2 C. Delia 91.7%

 

[Bryanbryoil]

It's called drafting. Oilers have never drafted a stud goalie.

So your point that it's the GC fault is pretty silly

Drafted, signed, he's the lead guy when it comes to goalies for the big club IIRC.

 

[VeteranPresence]

It's called drafting. Oilers have never drafted a stud goalie.

So your point that it's the GC fault is pretty silly

It's weird how nearly every other team in the last ten years has managed to find a starting goalie from somewhere but that has so far eluded Schwartz. Even a team that didn't exist ten years ago (VGK) has a better starter than we do. The guy's terrible at everything related to evaluating and coaching goalies, and excuses are just that.

 

[iCanada]

His last name goes in line with maybe being some sort of Nepo hire. Who knows. Just odd how he is invincible. I would go poach Ian Clark from Vancouver. All I have heard is that he is unhappy and removed himself from being the goalie coach.

If he's available because that bridge is burned - you make that happen. Period.

They've been a goaltending factory the entire time he's been employed there, and so we're the jackets the entire time he's was there.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Weird, Dubnyk became a stud... after he left the team. Certainly not the Oilers fault, no way.

But here's some more food for thought, bobby. Think about the most common criticisms of Skinner. First shot goes in, bad glove, etc... Weren't those the same things we roasted Koskinen for? And Talbot?

Oh bs. Dubnyk was a pure stud here until they finally cooked him. Absolutely no different than Justin Schultz.

It also took Dubnyk several years to get it back and it wasn't a goalie coach who helped him do that, it was psych therapist.

Goalies generally are a product of the system, not the GC who you continue to use as a scapegoat.

It's why Ulmark was a Vezina winner in Bos but couldn't stop a beach ball in Buf and Ott.

Was it the GC fault that the Blues sold the farm for a cup and their goalies sank the team? But apparently the GC is also the hero and deserves all the credit for Binnington saving the season.

How about Saros GC? One of the best GC in the NHL,...but not this year. Must be his fault Saros suddenly sucks. Amirite?

 

[bobbythebrain]

Drafted, signed, he's the lead guy when it comes to goalies for the big club IIRC.

He provides input. The GM drafts. Last I checked the Oil haven't drafted a high pedigree goalie

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Oh bs. Dubnyk was a pure stud here until they finally cooked him. Absolutely no different than Justin Schultz.

It also took Dubnyk several years to get it back and it wasn't a goalie coach who helped him do that, it was psych therapist.

Goalies generally are a product of the system, not the GC who you continue to use as a scapegoat.

It's why Ulmark was a Vezina winner in Bos but couldn't stop a beach ball in Buf and Ott.

Was it the GC fault that the Blues sold the farm for a cup and their goalies sank the team? But apparently the GC is also the hero and deserves all the credit for Binnington saving the season.

How about Saros GC? One of the best GC in the NHL,...but not this year. Must be his fault Saros suddenly sucks. Amirite?

Well if goalies are a product of the system, wouldn't that mean our system is really bad?

But again, if the same problems have plagued numerous goalies under the same tutelage... what does that tell you?

When you do your job poorly for an entire decade in most lines of work you get fired, especially if everyone else around you has already been fired or replaced in some manner.

If he has nothing to do with the state of the goaltending then what is his job? If he's doing nothing then there's even less reason to keep him.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Well if goalies are a product of the system, wouldn't that mean our system is really bad?

But again, if the same problems have plagued numerous goalies under the same tutelage... what does that tell you?

When you do your job poorly for an entire decade in most lines of work you get fired, especially if everyone else around you has already been fired or replaced in some manner.

If he has nothing to do with the state of the goaltending then what is his job? If he's doing nothing then there's even less reason to keep him.

Ya of course it's the system.
So it's Schwartz fault Skinner sucks? But wouldn't it be Schwartz who turned the team.around last year then? Cuz last I checked Skinner was awesome then and the Oil were the best team for months.
Clearly that was Schwartz

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Even if Skinner being bad isn’t Dustin’s fault he should still be fired. He just hasn’t had any success elevating our goalies and that’s his job.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Ya of course it's the system.
So it's Schwartz fault Skinner sucks? But wouldn't it be Schwartz who turned the team.around last year then? Cuz last I checked Skinner was awesome then and the Oil were the best team for months.
Clearly that was Schwartz

If your students consistently are below average then you're a bad teacher. Goaltending is below average this year.

Give me one good reason he deserves to keep his job.

 

[bobbythebrain]

If your students consistently are below average then you're a bad teacher. Goaltending is below average this year.

Give me one good reason he deserves to keep his job.

A goalie doesn't make a good team. A good team makes a good team, and the goalie.

It's why Vegas has punted their top 3 goalies and continue to use career back ups.

Hill wasn't good in Sjs but is in Vegas....must be the goalie coach I guess

And doesn't Schwartz deserve his job for the last 3 playoffs and last years 1 game away from victory?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

A goalie doesn't make a good team. A good team makes a good team, and the goalie.

It's why Vegas has punted their top 3 goalies and continue to use career back ups.

Hill wasn't good in Sjs but is in Vegas....must be the goalie coach I guess

That doesn't answer my question. Goaltending is below average this year. So either the team is below average (we all know they're not), or someone isn't doing their job well and hasn't done it well for basically their entire tenure.

 

[iCanada]

Oh bs. Dubnyk was a pure stud here until they finally cooked him. Absolutely no different than Justin Schultz.

It also took Dubnyk several years to get it back and it wasn't a goalie coach who helped him do that, it was psych therapist.

Goalies generally are a product of the system, not the GC who you continue to use as a scapegoat.

It's why Ulmark was a Vezina winner in Bos but couldn't stop a beach ball in Buf and Ott.

Was it the GC fault that the Blues sold the farm for a cup and their goalies sank the team? But apparently the GC is also the hero and deserves all the credit for Binnington saving the season.

How about Saros GC? One of the best GC in the NHL,...but not this year. Must be his fault Saros suddenly sucks. Amirite?

In terms of goaltender friendly systems - we're about as goaltender friendly as it gets. The raw numbers are ridiculous.

At 5 on 5, our scoring chances against per 60 are 25.54. for reference - the Panthers are 25.29, the Canes are 24.16, the Bruins are 25.47, the Stars are 25.55, the Jets are 26.08, and the Knights are 27.15.

At 5 on 5 our high danger scoring chances against per 60 are 9.01. for reference - the Panthers are 10.97, the Canes are 10.8, the bruins are 9.53, the Stars are 10.39, the Jets are 10.23, and the Knights are 11.19.

On the PK, our scoring chances against per 60 are 45.28. The Panthers are 49.62, the Canes are 51.82, the stars are 52.6, the Bruins are 53.29, the Jets are 73.22 (!!!!), and the Knights are 76.6 (!!!!!!).

On the PK, our HDSCA/60 are 17.5. The Panthers are 26.32, the Canes are 27.27, the stars are 27.1, the bruins are 22.11, the Jets are 34.03 (!!!!), and the knights are 29.18.

We're basically top 5 in every possible defensive metric that exists outside of save percentage - from shot suppression, to possession, to scoring chances surrendered.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

He provides input. The GM drafts. Last I checked the Oil haven't drafted a high pedigree goalie

He provided input into Campbell. Which pro goalie(s) that we've traded for or signed have thrived here? Hell even Smith was a Tippet guy.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He provided input into Campbell. Which pro goalie(s) that we've traded for or signed have thrived here? Hell even Smith was a Tippet guy.

Didn't Smith like not even bother with Schwartz?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

In terms of goaltender friendly systems - we're about as goaltender friendly as it gets. The raw numbers are ridiculous.

At 5 on 5, our scoring chances against per 60 are 25.54. for reference - the Panthers are 25.29, the Canes are 24.16, the Bruins are 25.47, the Stars are 25.55, the Jets are 26.08, and the Knights are 27.15.

At 5 on 5 our high danger scoring chances against per 60 are 9.01. for reference - the Panthers are 10.97, the Canes are 10.8, the bruins are 9.53, the Stars are 10.39, the Jets are 10.23, and the Knights are 11.19.

On the PK, our scoring chances against per 60 are 45.28. The Panthers are 49.62, the Canes are 51.82, the stars are 52.6, the Bruins are 53.29, the Jets are 73.22 (!!!!), and the Knights are 76.6 (!!!!!!).

On the PK, our HDSCA/60 are 17.5. The Panthers are 26.32, the Canes are 27.27, the stars are 27.1, the bruins are 22.11, the Jets are 34.03 (!!!!), and the knights are 29.18.

We're basically top 5 in every possible defensive metric that exists outside of save percentage - from shot suppression, to possession, to scoring chances surrendered.

So I am not a big advanced stats kind of a guy but hold shit does these stats ever scream "get a better goalie dummies!". Even if we don't want to move on from Stu, just get someone competent to challenge him. With all due respect to Pickard, there's a reason why he's been out of the league for some time before getting a look last year. Ideally he's a #3 goalie on the depth chart.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Didn't Smith like not even bother with Schwartz?

IIRC he did and then his game went sideways and then he got his own guy and then rebounded.

 

[iCanada]

So I am not a big advanced stats kind of a guy but hold shit does these stats ever scream "get a better goalie dummies!". Even if we don't want to move on from Stu, just get someone competent to challenge him. With all due respect to Pickard, there's a reason why he's been out of the league for some time before getting a look last year. Ideally he's a #3 goalie on the depth chart.

Yeah, to be honest it becomes quite difficult not to recognize the problem, or even imagine it's a different problem when you have those numbers to contextualize. We don't give up a ton of chances and when we do give up chances, on average they're of a lower quality than most top defensive teams. Yet we're still letting in 3.19 goals per game which is good for 22nd in the league while being top 3 in shots surrendered, top 5 in scoring chances against, top 2 in high danger scoring chances surrendered...

Particularly with regards to the Penalty Kill. Our PK should by all means be the elite of the league's elite, but instead we have a .686 save percentage and are dead f***ing last. Keeping in mind, league average save percentage on the penalty kill is .866, with the only other team having a save percentage below .800 being Georgiev's AVS sitting at .778.

Just brutal.

 

[Soundwave]

Ya of course it's the system.
So it's Schwartz fault Skinner sucks? But wouldn't it be Schwartz who turned the team.around last year then? Cuz last I checked Skinner was awesome then and the Oil were the best team for months.
Clearly that was Schwartz

No he wasn't. His save percentage still ended up being a mediocre .905 and he couldn't even crack the top 35 GSAA even the team in front of him was the hottest team in the NHL for like 80% of the season.

The Oilers succeeded in spite of Skinner, not because of him.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

In terms of goaltender friendly systems - we're about as goaltender friendly as it gets. The raw numbers are ridiculous.

At 5 on 5, our scoring chances against per 60 are 25.54. for reference - the Panthers are 25.29, the Canes are 24.16, the Bruins are 25.47, the Stars are 25.55, the Jets are 26.08, and the Knights are 27.15.

At 5 on 5 our high danger scoring chances against per 60 are 9.01. for reference - the Panthers are 10.97, the Canes are 10.8, the bruins are 9.53, the Stars are 10.39, the Jets are 10.23, and the Knights are 11.19.

On the PK, our scoring chances against per 60 are 45.28. The Panthers are 49.62, the Canes are 51.82, the stars are 52.6, the Bruins are 53.29, the Jets are 73.22 (!!!!), and the Knights are 76.6 (!!!!!!).

On the PK, our HDSCA/60 are 17.5. The Panthers are 26.32, the Canes are 27.27, the stars are 27.1, the bruins are 22.11, the Jets are 34.03 (!!!!), and the knights are 29.18.

We're basically top 5 in every possible defensive metric that exists outside of save percentage - from shot suppression, to possession, to scoring chances surrendered.

This is what is maddening to me. Just go try to get somebody better (which shouldn't be tough). We will go gunz blazing!!!