Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[BankStreetParade]

Why is coaching a "convenient excuse". For some reason Dorion and DJ are the only people you refuse to accept any blame for and I have no idea why. You also pretty much shat on one who dared to question Melnyk as an owner too before this season.

The only coaches who have longer tenure than DJ right now all made the playoffs last year and four have Cups. This team risks absolutely nothing by letting him go. He's not going to prove them wrong in another organization because his resume shows that he's done nothing at the pro hockey level and he's not getting another head coaching gig.

Say what?? Yet another straw man constructed against something I say so posters like you can post your word salad tearing it down to shreds.

Fire DJ and Dorion. Coaches and GMs come and go in this league. Fire them to replace them internally? Maybe not accomplishing much.

But I’ll disagree with the premise that DJ is the problem vs. part of the problem.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I’d think that any team getting goaltending like the Sens have are extremely worried.

Definitely a problem, regardless how other teams goalies are playing.

Deflating goals is a problem. Don’t care if the goalie has a .912 every single game, if they are allowing deflating goals every game, we’re getting bad goaltending.

When Talbot himself suggest that this team needs one of the goalies to steal a game for them, then he knows he hasn't been up to snuff.

 

[Micklebot]

When Talbot himself suggest that this team needs one of the goalies to steal a game for them, then he knows he hasn't been up to snuff.

He said we need a goalie to steal a game because we've scored 3 goals in the last three games, the margin for victory is a shutout.

 

[SENATOR]

Tomorrow starts preseason hockey for Sens 23/24. This season was truly disgusting with a loser coach, who will never coach in NHL again.

 

[Cosmix]

Tomorrow starts preseason hockey for Sens 23/24. This season was truly disgusting with a loser coach, who will never coach in NHL again.

AND A LOSER GM.

Say what?? Yet another straw man constructed against something I say so posters like you can post your word salad tearing it down to shreds.

Fire DJ and Dorion. Coaches and GMs come and go in this league. Fire them to replace them internally? Maybe not accomplishing much.

But I’ll disagree with the premise that DJ is the problem vs. part of the problem.

DJ is a part of the problem, as is Dorion. Both must go.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

DJ be like:

 

[Beech]

DJ and Dorion are going no where.

The team is for sale!! Per Sportsnet and tsn radio, the move is happening fast. A new owner my be in place by season's end... with the sale being finalized as early as January and the transfer being immediately or after some time. (payment may be in installments and full handover may not occur until the final balloon payment is made)

If so;
1) who fires DJ? Dorion! And what hire another coach? Maybe some big dollar one and tell the incoming owner, here you go; you are now on the hook for 5 x 5 for this coach that you did not hire...really!!!! I guarantee you, Bettman himself has sent a "make no moves" order to the Sens.
2) ditto for Dorion..A GM is typically an owner hire. Do you want some owner coming in, bring his new hire with him and having to shell out some 5 x 5 for a gm hired 2-4 months earlier...NEVER.

Endure folks, one more season of toilette and 23/24 will be the start of FYOMS...five years of mediocre success. By this time in 2024 we will be bitching about the new owner, new GM and new coach.

 

[Emrasie]

DJ be like:

So true

 

[Alex1234]

DJ and Dorion are going no where.

The team is for sale!! Per Sportsnet and tsn radio, the move is happening fast. A new owner my be in place by season's end... with the sale being finalized as early as January and the transfer being immediately or after some time. (payment may be in installments and full handover may not occur until the final balloon payment is made)

If so;
1) who fires DJ? Dorion! And what hire another coach? Maybe some big dollar one and tell the incoming owner, here you go; you are now on the hook for 5 x 5 for this coach that you did not hire...really!!!! I guarantee you, Bettman himself has sent a "make no moves" order to the Sens.
2) ditto for Dorion..A GM is typically an owner hire. Do you want some owner coming in, bring his new hire with him and having to shell out some 5 x 5 for a gm hired 2-4 months earlier...NEVER.

Endure folks, one more season of toilette and 23/24 will be the start of FYOMS...five years of mediocre success. By this time in 2024 we will be bitching about the new owner, new GM and new coach.

2024 out of basement
2025 mid pack
2026 contend for PO spot
2027 PO spot again
2028 maybe make some noise
2029 NO Tkaktchuk, Chabot, Norris,


G will never sniff a Cup poor guy (I mean a Stanley Cup cuz I don't know him personally lol)
Cat and Zub are probably gone before season ends

 

[GCK]

I find it weird that people have been defending DJ by saying the players are just not getting the job done, yet many of those people seem to find no fault with Dorion's work.

If the coach is doing his job and the players routinely are playing bad then we just have bad players. Who is responsible for acquiring those players?

Either Dorion or DJ, or both, needs to go.

I’m of the opinion that it’s not getting fixed by replacing DJ. That’s not defending him it’s pointing to terrible roster construction. New GM, new scouting department , new coach and a couple big roster moves.

 

[Tuna99]

D.J. Smith’s message to the fans right now:

“We look good losing. Like really good losing. Friggin’ backup goalies keep having this amazing games. Argh”

 

[Micklebot]

I’m of the opinion that it’s not getting fixed by replacing DJ. That’s not defending him it’s pointing to terrible roster construction. New GM, new scouting department , new coach and a couple big roster moves.

I'm not sure big roster moves are needed to see big improvement. Our center depth is promising long term, they just don't have the experience yet. Chabot, Zub and Sanderson are all top 4 guys, we just need one more.

Hire Julien or other high end coach
Trade for one of Carlo, Parayko, Pesce, ext
Maybe get a more defensive oriented 3rd pair LHD instead of Brannstrom
Upgrade 3rd line LW with more of a two way guy, ideally a physical presence (I'm assuming Formenton never wears a sens jersey again)

Roster after Norris returns:

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Giroux-Stützle-DeBrincat
???-Pinto-Joseph
Motte-Kastelic-Gambrell

Chabot-Zub
Sanderson-Carlo or other
Holden/upgrade-JBD/Thomson

The real question is how much it will take to sign DeBrincat, some are suggesting 9 mil, but at the same time assuming he won't command a strong return. Fiala got under 8, that should be our benchmark in negotiations,

 

[BondraTime]

Whatever coach we have isn’t going to magically erase all the problems the team has.

It’s definitely something that should be done, but it’s not something that is going to fix things.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

If there were any chance at all that he'd be back next year, then I can see why they haven't moved on, but knowing there's no way in hell that happens, I really think they should put him out of his misery and do the interim thing for the rest of the year. Its a bad look for the organization atm imo.

 

[Crosside]

Hartley said he have receive call recently by NHL team, but he s not interested for the moment. I wonder if this Dorion have call him. He would be the perfect match for the Sens

 

[Micklebot]

Whatever coach we have isn’t going to magically erase all the problems the team has.

It’s definitely something that should be done, but it’s not something that is going to fix things.

I mean, we clearly need a top 4 RHD. That's the toughest personnel need we need to fill, but after that, the rest should be relatively easy fixes.

Bottom pair D, a 3rd line LW to push Motte down to the 4th where he belongs, and maybe an upgrade on Watson? How hard are those spots really to fill?

There are coaches out there that have gotten worse rosters into the playoffs, heck, I'd argue MacLean did multiple times for us.

 

[BondraTime]

I mean, we clearly need a top 4 RHD. That's the toughest personnel need we need to fill, but after that, the rest should be relatively easy fixes.

Bottom pair D, a 3rd line LW to push Motte down to the 4th where he belongs, and maybe an upgrade on Watson? How hard are those spots really to fill?

There are coaches out there that have gotten worse rosters into the playoffs, heck, I'd argue MacLean did multiple times for us.

This year is a wash, I don't really care to much about straightening the ship for this season. Only hurt the draft pick. I'm sure we'll do our usual push to make people think change is coming.

We will be losing Zub this offseason as well I would imagine, if we wanted to sign him/he wanted to sign, he'd be signed.

This coming offseason we are likely going to need to add 2 top 4 RD's , something we have not been able to fill in 20 years (Karlsson/Zub/Gonchar only guys added over that time).

Unreliable, at best, goaltending

Sens are not in an enviable position, any coach they get will have their work cut out for then without serious additions

This team is far, far away from tweaks/addition's from being fixed IMO.

 

[bert]

I agree the difference between Mann or Cap isn't discernable and neither takes us to playoffs, more to give Mann a cookie for doing great development for our guys before new owners clean house.

Doubt there is a huge added cost to promoting Mann

The way the D core is run is by far the biggest weakness. Want Cap no where near the HC. Would probably make things worse. The only move that might work that is within the org is Mann.

 

[bert]

This year is a wash, I don't really care to much about straightening the ship for this season. Only hurt the draft pick. I'm sure we'll do our usual push to make people think change is coming.

We will be losing Zub this offseason as well I would imagine, if we wanted to sign him/he wanted to sign, he'd be signed.

This coming offseason we are likely going to need to add 2 top 4 RD's , something we have not been able to fill in 20 years (Karlsson/Zub/Gonchar only guys added over that time).

Unreliable, at best, goaltending

Sens are not in an enviable position, any coach they get will have their work cut out for then without serious additions

This team is far, far away from tweaks/addition's from being fixed IMO.

If this team can't get Zub to sign they're going to be in the basement again next year. Won't matter who the coach is. Finding defensive d men that are top 4 is nearly impossible.

 

[Micklebot]

This year is a wash, I don't really care to much about straightening the ship for this season. Only hurt the draft pick. I'm sure we'll do our usual push to make people think change is coming.

We will be losing Zub this offseason as well I would imagine, if we wanted to sign him/he wanted to sign, he'd be signed.

This coming offseason we are likely going to need to add 2 top 4 RD's , something we have not been able to fill in 20 years (Karlsson/Zub/Gonchar only guys added over that time).

Unreliable, at best, goaltending

Sens are not in an enviable position, any coach they get will have their work cut out for then without serious additions

This team is far, far away from tweaks/addition's from being fixed IMO.

Ok, if you're coming from the position that Zub is already gone, then we're in some trouble, I'd agree with that. UFA market at RD this offseason has a few options, Klingberg, Dumba, Severson, Gudas and Jensen could all be available but none are ideal. Trade options are always hard to judge because as much as we'd love to add Pesce or Parayko, their teams may have limited interest in moving them.

I'm not as pessimistic that we lose Zub, but if we do I'd expect he'll return a 1st at the deadline.

JBD looked goodbefore the injury and Thomson had a good game, I see them as bottom 4 options so we'll still need someone else.

As for goaltending, a good coach can hide a lot of warts,

 

[BondraTime]

If this team can't get Zub to sign they're going to be in the basement again next year. Won't matter who the coach is. Finding defensive d men that are top 4 is nearly impossible.

When is the last time we went into a season with an unsigned impact UFA who would be getting offers July 1st, and they stuck around? Honestly can't remember a single one in the past 7/8 years. MacArthur being the last? Honestly can't remember. Methot as well. Ottawa being located where it is definitely had an impact on both those.

Duchene
Stone
Paul
Dzingel
Karlsson
etc.
etc.

 

[Union2017]

 

[Micklebot]

When is the last time we went into a season with an unsigned impact UFA who would be getting offers July 1st, and they stuck around? Honestly can't remember a single one in the past 7/8 years. MacArthur being the last? Honestly can't remember

Methot would be the last one, MacArthur the year prior. Then maybe Phillips, not sure he an impact guy but he'd probably get offers.

Duchene
Stone
Paul
Dzingel
Karlsson
etc.
etc.

Franchises behave differently at different stages, we were in the selling stage of a rebuilding team when all those guys moved on, perhaps with the exception of Paul who was at the transition point.

When is the last time we went out and signed a 6.5 mil UFA or added a top 6 scoring winger for picks, were clearly behaving differently then when we moved on from Dzingel Duchene and Stone.

 

[BondraTime]

Methot would be the last one, MacArthur the year prior. Then maybe Phillips, not sure he an impact guy but he'd probably get offers.


Franchises behave differently at different stages, we were in the selling stage of a rebuilding team when all those guys moved on, perhaps with the exception of Paul who was at the transition point.

When is the last time we went out and signed a 6.5 mil UFA or added a top 6 scoring winger for picks, were clearly behaving differently then when we moved on from Dzingel Duchene and Stone.

Duchene in 2017 was last player for picks that fell apart, tried to sign Toffoli to more money than the Habs did at 4.25 in 2021. Signed Dadonov for 5 million in 2020.

We are definitely in the process of trying to compete. Neither example above really has to do with UFA's wanting to stay or play in Ottawa. Giroux is coming to finish his career in his hometown, and Debrincat is very likely another soon to be UFA to move on, hopefully at least, the Sens can't afford to keep another winger with his salary. Ottawa will definitely WANT to sign Zub, like they did Stone, Paul, Duchene, etc. The problem is it takes 2 to tango. We just saw that Klingberg didn't want to come to Ottawa, even though we clearly wanted him.

Will Zub want to stay in Ottawa if a big market team is likely to have a better offer on the table? Who knows, but I'd be very surprised if they don't want to at the very least test the market, which leaves the Sens in another bind they have been in countless times over the past 5 years with Paul, Duchene, Karlsson, Stone, Dzingel, etc.

Not sure a 31st place team is doing much in the way of convincing a big name, first time UFA on foregoing the UFA process before the trade deadline.

 

[Micklebot]

Duchene in 2017 was last player for picks that fell apart, tried to sign Toffoli to more money than the Habs did at 4.25 in 2021. Signed Dadonov for 5 million in 2020.

We are definitely in the process of trying to compete. Neither example above really has to do with UFA's wanting to stay or play in Ottawa. Giroux is coming to finish his career in his hometown, and Debrincat is very likely another soon to be UFA to move on, hopefully at least, the Sens can't afford to keep another winger with his salary.

Will Zub want to stay in Ottawa if a big market team is likely to have a better offer on the table? Who knows, but I'd be very surprised if they want to at the very least test the market, which leaves the Sens in another bind they have been in countless times over the past 5 years.

Toffoli and Dadonov were the same year, but the point is we aren't doing what we did when the guys you listed walked away as UFA.

The doom and gloom is understandable given the years of rebuilding, and it's certainly possible this season's collapse gives Zub and DeBrincat cold feet, but comparing what we did from 2017-2019 to what we will do now is ignoring some pretty significant context.