Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[BondraTime]

Their best shots of winning on this road trip were against the sharks and ducks. Gonna get smoked against the knights and kings. So best case we sim against the ducks…3 wins in the next pivotal 10 game stretch…


We shouldn’t be rewarding ability to suck more than ability to get their teams to the playoffs, which is what all those other coaches did (except bowness who was inheriting an atrocious expansion team)

They weren't rewarding ability to suck, they were expecting to suck.

When they are expecting something, and the coach is producing the opposite of that, coahces will have less leash.

When they are expecting something, and that something happens, the coach will be given much longer leash.

This year, DJ was expected to produce results, and he isn't, so he is in all likelihood reaching the end of his journey.

 

[SensHulk]

They weren't rewarding ability to suck, they were expecting to suck.

When they are expecting something, and the coach is producing the opposite of that, coahces will have less leash.

When they are expecting something, and that something happens, the coach will be given much longer leash.

This year, DJ was expected to produce results, and he isn't, so he is in all likelihood reaching the end of his journey.

I get that context is important but I’m just highlighting the absurdity of it all. And I think we’re now seeing the ramifications of it this season with so many of our promising young stars just floundering

 

[Korpse]

neither are top 6 material rn

The organization said that missing Pinto early last year really hurt us but relying on a rookie to have a great year is asking for trouble

Brassard was unplayable last year in the post season ...he is done

Of course they aren't. Teams don't have 3 or 4 top 6 centers to choose from. I don't get the gripe with having to use Brassard. He's not the solution but he wasn't brought in to be one either. He was always going to be there for insurance to spot fill a position.

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

If this team was not about to change ownership, he’d have been gone 5 games ago

 

[Micklebot]

They weren't rewarding ability to suck, they were expecting to suck.

When they are expecting something, and the coach is producing the opposite of that, coahces will have less leash.

When they are expecting something, and that something happens, the coach will be given much longer leash.

This year, DJ was expected to produce results, and he isn't, so he is in all likelihood reaching the end of his journey.

The truth is we made an error in giving DJ a shot with a better roster. It may not have been fair to DJ, but he should have been let go at the end of his contract instead of given a three year extension. This season could have started with a fresh voice, someone who's a known commodity, but instead we gave DJ a chance and while I get it's not entirely his fault, he hasn't inspired confidence either.

 

[Micklebot]

Of course they aren't. Teams don't have 3 or 4 top 6 centers to choose from. I don't get the gripe with having to use Brassard. He's not the solution but he wasn't brought in to be one either. He was always going to be there for insurance to spot fill a position.

Yeah, we either have Pinto trying to keep his head above water on the second line, or Brassard filling in, nobody was predicting we'd be out a top 6 center for 3+ months, teams can afford to have a spare in their back pocket just in case.

We probably could have gone out and acquired a top 9 center the moment Norris went down, but with Pinto looking promising they held off and things got ugly fast, now it's too late. Zub getting hurt right after didn't help.

 

[BondraTime]

The truth is we made an error in giving DJ a shot with a better roster. It may not have been fair to DJ, but he should have been let go at the end of his contract instead of given a three year extension. This season could have started with a fresh voice, someone who's a known commodity, but instead we gave DJ a chance and while I get it's not entirely his fault, he hasn't inspired confidence either.

I'd have been fine moving on from him after his first season, I've never believed the team was in good hands there. The 3 year extension was bonkers, as has been most of our GM's tenure.

The reason why other coaches were fired while floundering while DJ is on year 4 of floundering is obvious though.

 

[GCK]

neither are top 6 material rn

The organization said that missing Pinto early last year really hurt us but relying on a rookie to have a great year is asking for trouble

Brassard was unplayable last year in the post season ...he is done

What is/was your solution.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd have been fine moving on from him after his first season, I've never believed the team was in good hands there. The 3 year extension was bonkers, as has been most of our GM's tenure.

The reason why other coaches were fired while floundering while DJ is on year 4 of floundering is obvious though.

Yes and no, it's obvious why we might give a guy more leash when expectations are lower, but as you said, the extension was bonkers, literally no explanation I can think of to justify that.

I keep saying to myself at the beginning of every road trip, there's no way he survives this with a losing record, right? One of these days I'll be right...

 

[Micklebot]

What is/was your solution.

I'm a bit surprised we haven't tried Giroux at center.

 

[GCK]

I'm a bit surprised we haven't tried Giroux at center.

I think that just puts Brassard on his wing so it’s not much difference.

 

[Larionov]

If this team was not about to change ownership, he’d have been gone 5 games ago

This is such a key point, yet so many fans are completely missing it. There is very little chance that the caretaker ownership would green light a major personnel move right now that could complicate or jeopardize the sale. The new owner(s) will want to put their own stamp on the franchise, which will almost certainly involve a new coach and new GM.

 

[Big Muddy]

Yeah, while that was the poster I originally quoted, and replied to, who suggested Dorion would not survive an ownership change.

Whomever the owner is, they’ll take the required time to settle in, review the internal workings of the franchise management, and then decide what to do, month after taking over.


Can’t stop others from adding their two cents worth.

Your moving the goalposts from the immediate change idea that you originally mentioned, but whatever. Not worth it now to continue.

 

[Dan Patrick]

This is such a key point, yet so many fans are completely missing it. There is very little chance that the caretaker ownership would green light a major personnel move right now that could complicate or jeopardize the sale. The new owner(s) will want to put their own stamp on the franchise, which will almost certainly involve a new coach and new GM.

Yep, there will most likely be a house cleaning in the offseason with a new gm before or just after the draft, maybe a player trade or two and a new coach brought in by the end of July. New system in place to start the season and then when the team bounces back with new coach and healthy guys+another year for Pinto/Stu/Sanderson and the new owners can look like saviours for 2023-24. Just the way these things go, sometimes you just need to shake things up a little to light a fire under a team but we are handcuffed to the teams sale right now.

 

[bicboi64]

After John Ferguson Jr was let go in Toronto, Cliff Fletcher took over for 6 months as interim GM before Burke was hired.

I hope we do something like that. Dorion shouldn't be trusted with any moves at all and getting an interim guy might stop him from doing anything stupid.

 

[MarkStone]

After John Ferguson Jr was let go in Toronto, Cliff Fletcher took over for 6 months as interim GM before Burke was hired.

I hope we do something like that. Dorion shouldn't be trusted with any moves at all and getting an interim guy might stop him from doing anything stupid.

Didn't Cliff Fletcher sign Jeff Finger to that lucrative deal in that time? I don't think something like that would happen with the Sens in an interim situation (the purse strings under old ownership have probably been opened and closed as much as they will be) but I found the example funny.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah, while that was the poster I originally quoted, and replied to, who suggested Dorion would not survive an ownership change.

Whomever the owner is, they’ll take the required time to settle in, review the internal workings of the franchise management, and then decide what to do, month after taking over.


Can’t stop others from adding their two cents worth.

He will not survive an ownership change. You’re the one putting words in my mouth then shifting the goalposts

 

[HF Reader]

I have my doubts, as to how much interest prospective new owners would have in the current inner workings of the franchise. I think their due diligence is going to be on the marketplace, the financial structure of new ownership, and the NCC deal.

I doubt very much that prospective owners can do a proper review of the coaching staff discounting staff and other internal workings. That will be done after the new owner takes over, and most likely house cleaning will happen in the off-season not immediately as people seem to think.

You might be correct and I think you and I are niggling over timing. All the things you list influence the purchase price and conditions. Team performance is somewhat linked to profitability but I imagine the candidates for ownership assume they can fix the hockey side and will work out details closer to the purchase and beyond.

I do believe the new owners will want "their person" in place for 2023, and things will move quickly after the sale. "Quickly"' meaning before Sept. 2023. And quickly likely requires some forethought and planning, consultations within the industry, etc.

If the sale happens on January 31 I agree with you that they likely won't dump Dorion on Feb. 1. Although if I win the bid....

 

[bicboi64]

Didn't Cliff Fletcher sign Jeff Finger to that lucrative deal in that time? I don't think something like that would happen with the Sens in an interim situation (the purse strings under old ownership have probably been opened and closed as much as they will be) but I found the example funny.

You're right, plus moving Steen and Colaiacovo for Stempniak.

I don't know why I used that example lol

 

[Big Muddy]

After John Ferguson Jr was let go in Toronto, Cliff Fletcher took over for 6 months as interim GM before Burke was hired.

I hope we do something like that. Dorion shouldn't be trusted with any moves at all and getting an interim guy might stop him from doing anything stupid.

Think of it as a divorce. The teams assets will be frozen until the sale is official and completed. Don't think the existing Board will allow Dorion to do anything dumb. Sure hope so anyways.

 

[HF Reader]

After John Ferguson Jr was let go in Toronto, Cliff Fletcher took over for 6 months as interim GM before Burke was hired.

I hope we do something like that. Dorion shouldn't be trusted with any moves at all and getting an interim guy might stop him from doing anything stupid.

I haven't read this entire thread so maybe this point has been made. You have to wonder if Dorion has been explicitly told to do nothing.

 

[Flamingo]

I haven't read this entire thread so maybe this point has been made. You have to wonder if Dorion has been explicitly told to do nothing.

If I were the Melnyk sisters or a prospective new owner, I would certainly ask Dorion not to do anything.

You can't promote Mann and then un-promote him later. Capuano is the only short-term option, and you have lots of runway left to make that change.

 

[Sens Vader]

Why the hell are we waiting to fire him, this is such a frustrating organization to watch operate.

 

[coladin]

I think that it is inevitable that he gets fired after this road trip. Problem is, how do you sign somone like Julien, when new ownership will be coming in. They will most likley clean house.

Would someone like Julien come in like Marty St. Louis did and just coach the rest of the season? He is still under contract so he won't do that. Or will he? I guess if he is scouting then he must be off and free to sign wherever? It could give Julien the chance to show he can still coach, so he may jump at the chance ( or be pateitn for the inevitable firings that are coming in the NHL). Julien needs his own staff too, I would imagine .

It is very hard to do a coaching change outside of Capuano or Mann with ownership up in the air

 

[Micklebot]

I think that just puts Brassard on his wing so it’s not much difference.

Perhaps, though we have better callup options on the wing than we do at center in Sokolov, Greig, and Crookshank, and center is a more important position to have filled with someone qualified for the role.