Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[BankStreetParade]

Uh, wtf is a casual? Have you appointed yourself a higher level of fandom? Give your head a shake. Wow. How dare average people write their opinions in an open forum? How dare a newspaper editor publish the opinion of one of the columnists being paid to write his opinion?
If anything, you are casual and Denley's opinion carries a lot more weight. Or maybe your take will be published in tomorrow's paper?

If I wrote a column about municipal politics, I wouldn't expect it to get published because I don't have any expertise in that area.

And yes, we're all casuals here. It's not a reference to your "level of fandom", whatever the f*** that means. We're casual observers, not paid professionals.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

This is such a terrible take.

One is a guy giving his opinion and presenting facts and arguments to support those positions, which you can agree with or disagree, and he being transparent about his background. The others are making claims of having inside knowledge and presenting their articles as being born from that insider info. You have to either trust they aren't lying or take them at their word.

Again though, if the columnists opinion carries no value based simply on his vocation, then why would you bother coming here to read anybody's post? It's a discussion board, opinions are posted to spur discussion, whether it comes from a regular poster or link to an opinion columnist, it's not the medium that really matters it's the content. If his opinion is flawed, his points can be contested directly rather than just attacking his personal credibility based on what he usually writes about.

Denley is a grump and I imagine could have just churned out another LRT article or something.

The fact he wrote what he did is actually kind of big. It gives voice to what he calls himself - joe casual fan.

if it has got to that level, the ice dam is breaking. (or he's good at reading tea leaves and realizes the vacuum will come out after a sales, so might as well take credit for being smart now)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I have no problem with him putting that out there. At worst, it's just voicing the opinion of most Sens fans, right or wrong. Everyone and their dog knows DJ isn't coming back, so I'm sure a lot of folk are wondering why they haven't gone the interim route yet.

 

[Big Muddy]

Well, he's missed half the season so far.

And I asked that person why they thought that pairing would work and who you pair with Chabot if you make that switch. I'm asking for some sort of reasoning or statistical justification outside of "because I think it'll work".

Yes, that is true (kind of my point btw). Zub has missed time, and he's not been paired with Sanderson.

So, how could the poster have then provided some kind of statistical analysis based on data that didn't exist?

Absent of stats, he provided his reasons and what he could. Yet, you're asking for something that doesn't exist and complaining. This is even more ironic given that there's not much to lose at this point as far as giving that pairing a try.

 

[Cosmix]

I’d prefer a president of hockey ops as the hire and they can start assembling staff.

I think the POHO is equivalent to the GM; same role. What are each of their duties if you have both?

Empty net is even strength.

unless . . the goaltender is pulled when the team has a PK.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Yes, that is true (kind of my point btw). Zub has missed time, and he's not been paired with Sanderson.

So, how could the poster have then provided some kind of statistical analysis based on data that didn't exist?

Absent of stats, he provided his reasons and what he could. Yet, you're asking for something that doesn't exist and complaining. This is even more ironic given that there's not much to lose at this point as far as giving that pairing a try.

No, his reasoning is that Zub and Chabot have been terrible together and that Zub has been better with everyone else. It’s not true according to the eye test and it’s not true according to the data.

Pairing Sanderson and Zub fixes a problem we don’t have and creates a new problem.

 

[Cosmix]

What stats back up your argument though?
For conversation's sake, here's the 6 most common D pairings this year, filtered to at least 85 minutes together so we can see Chabot + JBD together (even-though it's not really enough of a sample size).
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just wondering what supports your argument apart from the good old eye test.
View attachment 636737View attachment 636734


Don't think I've even said the name DJ, let alone defended it. But keep on keeping on, the World Championship for Constructing and Destroying Strawman Arguments is almost yours!

Thanks for the stats table. Makes for interesting comparisons between the various D pairs.

 

[bert]

No, his reasoning is that Zub and Chabot have been terrible together and that Zub has been better with everyone else. It’s not true according to the eye test and it’s not true according to the data.

Pairing Sanderson and Zub fixes a problem we don’t have and creates a new problem.

Bullshit. It's absolutely true to the eye test. Zub looks better in a shut down role. Eye test backs it up. I can't help you don't have the hockey acumen to pick up on the obvious.

A problem they don't have? Are you serious? The team is basically out of the playoff race. They have no match up shut down pair. The teams biggest problem is the D core. This is a potential solution. You've provided no potential positive options. Just continuing to go on like this.... Chabots playing some of his worst hockey in the last 3 years with Zub this season. It's obvious..... But if you can't see it try and put your ego aside and look at the threads. Look at Twitter, listen to the post game shows. Look at Chabots plus minus. Look at his 5 on 5 production. It's not working.

Chabot and JBD have played well together the last two games they've been together. At this point why not try JBD in the top 4 with Chabot? He is a former first round pick the teams out of it. Time to try something new. Hamonic is a UFA to be and likely will be traded. Let's see Zub Sanderson play against the other teams best guys. Let's reduce and soften chabots minutes and see if he responds.

 

[JD1]

Bullshit. It's absolutely true to the eye test. Zub looks better in a shut down role. Eye test backs it up. I can't help you don't have the hockey acumen to pick up on the obvious.

A problem they don't have? Are you serious? The team is basically out of the playoff race. They have no match up shut down pair. The teams biggest problem is the D core. This is a potential solution. You've provided no potential positive options. Just continuing to go on like this.... Chabots playing some of his worst hockey in the last 3 years with Zub this season. It's obvious..... But if you can't see it try and put your ego aside and look at the threads. Look at Twitter, listen to the post game shows. Look at Chabots plus minus. Look at his 5 on 5 production. It's not working.

Chabot and JBD have played well together the last two games they've been together. At this point why not try JBD in the top 4 with Chabot? He is a former first round pick the teams out of it. Time to try something new. Hamonic is a UFA to be and likely will be traded. Let's see Zub Sanderson play against the other teams best guys. Let's reduce and soften chabots minutes and see if he responds.

I 100% agree with

Chabot JBD
Sanderson Zub

And it's why I wouldn't give up big assets without an extended audition of those pairs. Sanderson Zub playing harder defensive minutes, JBD being the responsible defender to allow Chabot to focus more on driving offence.

But if this doesn't work for Chabot, at some point Chabot and his contract becomes the problem

 

[bert]

I 100% agree with

Chabot JBD
Sanderson Zub

And it's why I wouldn't give up big assets without an extended audition of those pairs. Sanderson Zub playing harder defensive minutes, JBD being the responsible defender to allow Chabot to focus more on driving offence.

But if this doesn't work for Chabot, at some point Chabot and his contract becomes the problem

I don't think it hinges on playing with JBD. Ultimately this organization needs to see what he looks like under a different coaching staff and system/usage before making a decision on such a talented player just entering his prime. Look at Morrissey. He's never been the same talent level as Chabot. Sometimes players need a change.

 

[Micklebot]

It's really strange to me that we haven't tried any other RHD with Sanderson yet, like, he's had 650 5v5 mins, and only 32 of those mins were with a RHD not named Hamonic, Less than a minute per game, so most of that is probably Hamonic going for a line change before Sanderson.

I get that we wanted to have some stability for him in his rookie year, but at some point you've got to let the kid play with other guys.

Try him with Zub, try him with JBD, see if we can spark the team a bit. What's the holdup?

 

[Alex1234]

It's really strange to me that we haven't tried any other RHD with Sanderson yet, like, he's had 650 5v5 mins, and only 32 of those mins were with a RHD not named Hamonic, Less than a minute per game, so most of that is probably Hamonic going for a line change before Sanderson.

I get that we wanted to have some stability for him in his rookie year, but at some point you've got to let the kid play with other guys.

Try him with Zub, try him with JBD, see if we can spark the team a bit. What's the holdup?

Agree
Halfway in the season and it's not been tried yet
Unbelievable
But then again when were trailing by one with 3 min to go the 3rd line is on the ice for regular shift so...

 

[Micklebot]

York and Ryan criticizing some of the breakdowns again.

Too agressive on the forcheck against Colorado's top line, Brassard doesn't reload, Watson asked to keep up with MacKinnon, lol,

Poor timing on a line change by Luccini combined with turnover not getting it deep allows blues to come in with speed on Sanderson and Hamonic,

Chabot/Talbot gaff, the forcheckers didn't do their job, called it horrendous forecheck, gave blues an easy out, Chabot backed off, missplayed the puck, would have liked him to slow up the guy a bit more.

One recurring theme seems to be our forcheck is agressive, but really not good.

Talked about DJ pumping up the bottom 6, no answer as to why since the bottom 6 hasn't been good. Figures he's just trying to give the bottom 6 some confidence.

Critical of getting 4th line out in the final 4 mins.

Last question to York was what is the sens system. Starts around 44 mins for those still looking for the answer...

 

[UglyPuckling]

No, his reasoning is that Zub and Chabot have been terrible together and that Zub has been better with everyone else. It’s not true according to the eye test and it’s not true according to the data.

Pairing Sanderson and Zub fixes a problem we don’t have and creates a new problem.

I would have to agree that Zub with Sanderson is worth a try. Why not give it a whirl for several games given the season is basically done anyhow? We are 9 points out of the last wild card slot and have to leap frog 5 teams. Now is the time to do it you'd think.

As someone else put it, Chabot's motor is in Eco-mode now. He needs to find more energy in his game and reducing his minutes seems like it could help.

Plus, I think Sanderson is going to be the number one defender here ultimately anyhow. So, if Sanderson and Zub mesh well together, can play around 23 minutes, Chabot and JBD (or another vet RD) 22 minutes, and the 3rd pair about 15 minutes, I think that's worth a try and could work.

The D situation is a weakness for this team, so its going to need to get fixed if the Senators want to be a playoff team next year.

 

[Big Muddy]

No, his reasoning is that Zub and Chabot have been terrible together and that Zub has been better with everyone else. It’s not true according to the eye test and it’s not true according to the data.

Pairing Sanderson and Zub fixes a problem we don’t have and creates a new problem.

The only pairing that Zub was on was Chabot-Zub in the table/data you presented. So, I'm not sure how "it’s not true according to the data".

\

 

[BankStreetParade]

The only pairing that Zub was on was Chabot-Zub in the table/data you presented. So, I'm not sure how "it’s not true according to the data".

\

I posted this earlier in the thread.

The chart I posted showed Chabot and Zub as the only full-time pairing of the 6 that have a positive goal differential[...] They're the only pairing to play over 50 minutes together this year to have a positive goal differential.

 

[Big Muddy]

I posted this earlier in the thread.

So it wasn't in the data/table you presented.

And, how do we compare the results of a Sanderson/Zub tandem to any other tandem if those 2 players haven't played together?

Are you worried if we try something different, we won't make the playoffs? The season is toast anyhow.

Whatever solution they manage to find, I do hope they ultimately fix our D. I think its necessary if we have aspirations of being a legit playoff team.

 

[Alex1234]

Let's not try anything else new
Let's not make any changes
Let's watch us climb the standings magically
Everything is fiiiiiiiine

 

[cudi]

i get it. when you have an elite bottom 6, you try not to mess with it much

 

[BankStreetParade]

So it wasn't in the data/table you presented.

And, how do we compare the results of a Sanderson/Zub tandem to any other tandem if those 2 players haven't played together?

Are you worried if we try something different, we won't make the playoffs? The season is toast anyhow.

Whatever solution they manage to find, I do hope they ultimately fix our D. I think its necessary if we have aspirations of being a legit playoff team.

I'm not worried about anything lol. I don't have a stake in the decision-making. But when someone says "I don't trust objective data because who knows how it's collected" and then goes on to say "I'll only trust my subjective point of view" it feels like an absurd statement that needs to be challenged.

Also, when they say Zub and Chabot have been terrible together, meanwhile the data points to literally the exact opposite, what kind of argument am I supposed to make in return?

The team can try any defensive pairings they want. Up until 2 games ago, we didn't have much flexibility at RD and the coaching staff are trying to put together a lineup that wins games. The only reliable pairing we have, producing a positive goal differential, is where you would start to tweak the pairings? It literally makes no sense. We have the flexibility now and we can definitely try some new combos and hopefully get some good results from it but saying these guys are idiots because they hadn't tried it - when it wasn't possible - and then making a statement about our only reliable defensive pairing being dogshit together can and should be challenged.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yep that’s why I said unless PK or PP.

When an even-strength or shorthanded goal is scored, every player on the ice for the team scoring the goal is credited with a "plus." Every player on the ice for the team scored against gets a "minus." The difference in these numbers by the end of the game makes up each individual player's plus/minus ranking. A high plus total is taken to mean that a guy is a good defensive player.


To clarify, an even-strength goal means a goal that is scored when there are the same number of players on each team. A shorthanded goal is a goal scored by the team that has fewer players on the ice than the opposing team due to penalties.


In calculating the plus/minus statistic, power play goals, penalty shot goals and empty net goals are not taken into account. Power play goals are scored by the team that has more players on the ice than the opposing team due to penalties. A penalty shot, which occurs when a team loses a clear scoring opportunity because of a foul, is a chance for a player to score a goal on the offending team without any opposition except the goaltender. Empty net goals are when a team scores a goal when there is no goaltender present at the net.

What Is the Plus/Minus Statistic in Hockey and How Is It Calculated?

The plus/minus statistic measures each NHL player's skill as a defensive player. Learn how to calculate this criticized statistic.

www.liveabout.com

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

i get it. when you have an elite bottom 6, you try not to mess with it much

Well there is some interesting drama, potentially. Bottom 6 sucks, so surely it can't be a matter of not wanting to disrupt that.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

i get it. when you have an elite bottom 6, you try not to mess with it much

Wow. That is interesting.

 

[Icelevel]

i get it. when you have an elite bottom 6, you try not to mess with it much

She couldn’t wait to post that.

Probably nothing. Let’s hold off on the speculation

 

[cudi]

She couldn’t wait to post that.

Probably nothing. Let’s hold off on the speculation

idk what youre suggesting...but theres lots of men on twitter posting the same exact thing