Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[The Devilish Buffoon]

1 feels like it just won't happen. It's not about saving the season because that's so far fetched, and new ownership should be making the call down the line on anybody beyond just finishing out the year, so Cap or Mann are the only realistic options at this point imo.

I agree, it definitely won't happen. But its my ideal scenario, given that they wouldnt be spending my money lol.

 

[Micklebot]

I see casuals writing hot takes every day here, don't think we really needed more of that type of voice in the mix.

Why even come here if that's your position? Just such a weird stance to take on a discussion board... Can't have a link to someones opinion posted here, we got enough of those as it is...

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

It's kinda crazy how black and white everything is for you guys. Like the only 2 options are either someone who doesn't write about hockey or someone who shouldn't be??? We've all read just about everything there is to read about this season. Many of you repeatedly post the same sentiments day in and day out, why do we need to read the words of someone who's only qualification is that he writes opinion columns for the newspaper?

Its almost like the repeated posts with the same sentiments align with the same mistakes and issues that has plague this team for the past 4 years with no sense of improvements. Hmmm I wonder why that is.

Don't worry dude, DJ isn't going to see this criticism if you are so worried about him, and he won't see you putting in this herculean effort in defending his name.

Goes to message boards to complain about people sharing their opinions.

 

[BankStreetParade]

No it would have meant that Sanderson Zub take the hard matchups against the other teams best players. They would be the top pair in that regard. Getting Chabot more favorable matchups. What we do know is that Zub and Chabot does not work. Zub has looked better with literally everyone he has played with.

Zub Sanderson would be great to put out after a PP. Its a momentum changing shift and they hypothetically would give the team its best chance to not get scored on.

Need to play to a teams strength.

What stats back up your argument though?
For conversation's sake, here's the 6 most common D pairings this year, filtered to at least 85 minutes together so we can see Chabot + JBD together (even-though it's not really enough of a sample size).
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just wondering what supports your argument apart from the good old eye test.

Its almost like the repeated posts with the same sentiments align with the same mistakes and issues that has plague this team for the past 4 years with no sense of improvements. Hmmm I wonder why that is.

Don't worry dude, DJ isn't going to see this criticism if you are so worried about him, and he won't see you putting in this herculean effort in defending his name.

Goes to message boards to complain about people sharing their opinions.

Don't think I've even said the name DJ, let alone defended it. But keep on keeping on, the World Championship for Constructing and Destroying Strawman Arguments is almost yours!

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

So? Did you expect Bruce to write an opinion piece criticizing the team?

The guy acknowledges that he isn't a sports writer and is coming at this as a fan.



Dude is bringing facts and serious heat

Yeah that last bit should be more than enough to justify replacing Smith. Its not like he's exceeded expectations . . . at all. I can understand giving him this season with a better roster to see what he can do, but the major issues are all still there.

SPecial teams are solid, but he doesn't coach those. Everything 5v5 is weaksauce.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Why even come here if that's your position? Just such a weird stance to take on a discussion board... Can't have a link to someones opinion posted here, we got enough of those as it is...

For the same reason people moan and groan when people post stuff from Eklund or Kevin Francis or Bruce Garrioch. They're unqualified to do what they do and their opinions carry no real value. I'm surprised it needed to be said.

nothing to get your shorts in a knot one way or another

I've more accurately summarized the opinion piece and the value it holds in the discussions going on in this thread for you.

 

[bert]

What stats back up your argument though?
For conversation's sake, here's the 6 most common D pairings this year, filtered to at least 85 minutes together so we can see Chabot + JBD together (even-though it's not really enough of a sample size).
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just wondering what supports your argument apart from the good old eye test.
View attachment 636737View attachment 636734


Don't think I've even said the name DJ, let alone defended it. But keep on keeping on, the World Championship for Constructing and Destroying Strawman Arguments is almost yours!

These charts... They look different no matter where you get them. People can also just fill them out to their liking. What are you even showing me here? Chabot and Brannstrom have two different ratings together. How does this argument have any weight at all?

The eye test has to count for something. One of the chart says that Chabot and Brannstrom were good together. They've been absolutely terrible. But which one am i supposed to trust here?....

Chabot and JBD have played very well together the last two games did you watch them? Chabot and Zub have not been good this year, its been obvious.

Do you think no adjustments should be made when the team is 5 games under 500? I dont get what the argument you're coming at me with here is other than trying to be a contrarian. Do you think they shouldnt try Sanderson and Zub together? It made sense right from the start of the season and its not been tried once. Its quite obvious advanced stats are a secondary way of evaluating hockey its not baseball. Real results matter more than who gets the most shots.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Only way it makes sense to fire DJ, imo, is if we're promoting Mann to interim HC. Firing DJ just to promote Capuano, who runs the D, makes no sense to me. Won't be a new face, won't be a new system, and if that's the case I would rather DJ finish the season/wait for new ownership.

My preference:
1) Fire DJ and bring in an established coach from outside the org.
2) Fire DJ and promote Mann.
3) Keep DJ until end of season/ownership change.
4) Fire DJ and promote Capuano.

People say there is no point in firing DJ just to promote (temporarily) Capuano, but I'm not buying it. I'm certainly not a huge fan of the guy, but he made the playoffs 3 out of 6 years on the Island. He has two 100 point NHL seasons under his belt. He has been a head coach in professional leagues (on and off) for the last 25 years.

Like I said I don't think he's a long term solution but his track record and resume is vastly superior to DJ Smith's.

I say give it a shot.

 

[BankStreetParade]

These charts... They look different no matter where you get them. People can also just fill them out to their liking. What are you even showing me here? Chabot and Brannstrom have two different ratings together. How does this argument have any weight at all?

The eye test has to count for something. One of the chart says that Chabot and Brannstrom were good together. They've been absolutely terrible. But which one am i supposed to trust here?....

Chabot and JBD have played very well together the last two games did you watch them? Chabot and Zub have not been good this year, its been obvious.

Do you think no adjustments should be made when the team is 5 games under 500? I dont get what the argument you're coming at me with here is other than trying to be a contrarian. Do you think they shouldnt try Sanderson and Zub together? It made sense right from the start of the season and its not been tried once. Its quite obvious advanced stats are a secondary way of evaluating hockey its not baseball. Real results matter more than who gets the most shots.

I didn't think the charts were that complicated, Jesus. One of them is expected goals and the other is actual. And no, these don't just get "filled out" to someone's liking, lol. Where did you even get that from?

Again, I explicitly asked you what supports your argument and you've had a total meltdown. What the f***? I didn't even challenge your opinion, I just asked you to continue explaining why you thought what you thought.

I haven't taken any positions about what the team has or hasn't done, assessed them positively or negatively and haven't been a "contrarian" in the slightest.

Man has this forum just continued sliding into oblivion. You get this bent out of shape because someone has the f***ing audacity to ask you to explain the point you're making?

 

[bert]

I didn't think the charts were that complicated, Jesus. One of them is expected goals and the other is actual. And no, these don't just get "filled out" to someone's liking, lol. Where did you even get that from?

Again, I explicitly asked you what supports your argument and you've had a total meltdown. What the f***? I didn't even challenge your opinion, I just asked you to continue explaining why you thought what you thought.

I haven't taken any positions about what the team has or hasn't done, assessed them positively or negatively and haven't been a "contrarian" in the slightest.

Man has this forum just continued sliding into oblivion. You get this bent out of shape because someone has the f***ing audacity to ask you to explain the point you're making?

Every single model looks different so id rather trust watching the games.

I did explain in the first post you quoted why I think its a good idea. You came back with the charts. Its right there. Get off your high horse about the audacity bullshit. You had your explanation....

The results speak for themselves they need to try something different in an attempt to find something that
works.

Here ya go.

No it would have meant that Sanderson Zub take the hard matchups against the other teams best players. They would be the top pair in that regard. Getting Chabot more favorable matchups. What we do know is that Zub and Chabot does not work. Zub has looked better with literally everyone he has played with.

Zub Sanderson would be great to put out after a PP. Its a momentum changing shift and they hypothetically would give the team its best chance to not get scored on. Need to play to a teams strength.

In Short Chabot has played well with JBD. Zub looked better with other partners than Chabot. Zub and Sanderson havent been tried together. The team has a losing record id like to see them try something different.

 

[Micklebot]

For the same reason people moan and groan when people post stuff from Eklund or Kevin Francis or Bruce Garrioch. They're unqualified to do what they do and their opinions carry no real value. I'm surprised it needed to be said.

This is such a terrible take.

One is a guy giving his opinion and presenting facts and arguments to support those positions, which you can agree with or disagree, and he being transparent about his background. The others are making claims of having inside knowledge and presenting their articles as being born from that insider info. You have to either trust they aren't lying or take them at their word.

Again though, if the columnists opinion carries no value based simply on his vocation, then why would you bother coming here to read anybody's post? It's a discussion board, opinions are posted to spur discussion, whether it comes from a regular poster or link to an opinion columnist, it's not the medium that really matters it's the content. If his opinion is flawed, his points can be contested directly rather than just attacking his personal credibility based on what he usually writes about.

 

[Golden_Jet]

If a team scores, while on the PK, I think the players on the ice get a + …. If not they should.

Yep that’s why I said unless PK or PP.

 

[Big Muddy]

What stats back up your argument though?
For conversation's sake, here's the 6 most common D pairings this year, filtered to at least 85 minutes together so we can see Chabot + JBD together (even-though it's not really enough of a sample size).
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just wondering what supports your argument apart from the good old eye test.
View attachment 636737View attachment 636734


Don't think I've even said the name DJ, let alone defended it. But keep on keeping on, the World Championship for Constructing and Destroying Strawman Arguments is almost yours!

The person you were replying to suggested a Sanderson-Zub pairing. Your charts/tables don't even show the Sanderson-Zub pairing (understandable as they haven't played together much), so there's nothing (no info) to compare against.

 

[JD1]

What about that piece was particularly of interest to anyone here? Which part(s)?

Meh it's Randall Denley. His living is stirring up controversy

 

[BankStreetParade]

This is such a terrible take.

One is a guy giving his opinion and presenting facts and arguments to support those positions, which you can agree with or disagree, and he being transparent about his background. The others are making claims of having inside knowledge and presenting their articles as being born from that insider info. You have to either trust they aren't lying or take them at their word.

Again though, if the columnists opinion carries no value based simply on his vocation, then why would you bother coming here to read anybody's post? It's a discussion board, opinions are posted to spur discussion, whether it comes from a regular poster or link to an opinion columnist, it's not the medium that really matters it's the content. If his opinion is flawed, his points can be contested directly rather than just attacking his personal credibility based on what he usually writes about.

Horribly wrong and bordering on fatuous.

I will leave it to someone else to do the technical analysis of where the team is going wrong under Smith. I don’t care. I just want to see them win.
...
If a professional sports coach gets so little result from a team with this much talent, there is only one rational conclusion to be drawn: he’s not good at his job. Smith might be a very nice guy, but NHL coaches are judged by their results, and his are bad.

Which parts are the facts? Disingenuous, cherry-picked stats about his tenure? Sure, he's been here 5 years and his teams have finished near the bottom. Wasn't that kind of the plan for the first 3 years?

"A team with this much talent"...huh? You read these forums, right? Do people spend more time talking about the lack of talent at the D position, inconsistent goaltending and lack of scoring from the bottom 6F group or about the abundance of talent we have? This team can't simultaneously have enough talent to win more than they lose and also be missing talent at many key positions across the roster.

Is Norris talent? Are Joseph, Motte and Formenton talent? Some people have been ready to fire this guy since game 10. You ask him to coach through the tough times, when you know you're going to lose way more than you win, so you can give him less than 40 games to prove himself in the first year with any sort of expectations?

If anyone had posted a hypothetical roster in the offseason with Norris, Formenton, Joseph, Motte and Zub all missing significant time to injury, with no equivalent replacements, are we actually saying the expectation would have still been playoffs or on the cusp?

 

[StutzMeister]

Meh it's Randall Denley. His living is stirring up controversy

LOL - what is controversial about his opinion on DJ Smith - he's a terrible coach. Everyone can see it based on factual results. What a bad take you have.

Horribly wrong and bordering on fatuous.

Which parts are the facts? Disingenuous, cherry-picked stats about his tenure? Sure, he's been here 5 years and his teams have finished near the bottom. Wasn't that kind of the plan for the first 3 years?

"A team with this much talent"...huh? You read these forums, right? Do people spend more time talking about the lack of talent at the D position, inconsistent goaltending and lack of scoring from the bottom 6F group or about the abundance of talent we have? This team can't simultaneously have enough talent to win more than they lose and also be missing talent at many key positions across the roster.

Is Norris talent? Are Joseph, Motte and Formenton talent? Some people have been ready to fire this guy since game 10. You ask him to coach through the tough times, when you know you're going to lose way more than you win, so you can give him less than 40 games to prove himself in the first year with any sort of expectations?

If anyone had posted a hypothetical roster in the offseason with Norris, Formenton, Joseph, Motte and Zub all missing significant time to injury, with no equivalent replacements, are we actually saying the expectation would have still been playoffs or on the cusp?

Explain his system other than "play hard"...lmao

 

[BankStreetParade]

The person you were replying to suggested a Sanderson-Zub pairing. Your charts/tables don't even show the Sanderson-Zub pairing (understandable as they haven't played together much), so there's nothing (no info) to compare against.

Well, he's missed half the season so far.

And I asked that person why they thought that pairing would work and who you pair with Chabot if you make that switch. I'm asking for some sort of reasoning or statistical justification outside of "because I think it'll work". I posted some numbers for pairings that have played together so far and what they've been able to do together. I'm not asking for a 20 minute youtube video breaking down all current and hypothetical defense pairings, I'm asking someone to provide a little more context for their opinion.

LOL - what is controversial about his opinion on DJ Smith - he's a terrible coach. Everyone can see it based on factual results. What a bad take you have.


Explain is system other than "play hard"...lmao

I'm as unqualified as Randall Denley to assess the Senators and DJ Smith. But I'm sure you've got some great insights into what kind of coach we do need since it's so clear to you what terrible looks like.

 

[Alex1234]

JBD's been injured for a large chunk of this season. If they had played Sanderson-Zub together, would that mean Chabot-Hamonic on the top pair? Doesn't feel like what we need is Hamonic playing more minutes.

Chabot and Z were ok after Z came back from Belleville

 

[StutzMeister]

Do you watch the same Sens games as we do ? I can guarantee you this - if DJ Smith is coach for a few more years - u will never witness a Bank Street Parade...lol

 

[BankStreetParade]

Every single model looks different so id rather trust watching the games.

I did explain in the first post you quoted why I think its a good idea. You came back with the charts. Its right there. Get off your high horse about the audacity bullshit. You had your explanation....

The results speak for themselves they need to try something different in an attempt to find something that
works.

Here ya go.



In Short Chabot has played well with JBD. Zub looked better with other partners than Chabot. Zub and Sanderson havent been tried together. The team has a losing record id like to see them try something different.

The chart I posted showed Chabot and Zub as the only full-time pairing of the 6 that have a positive goal differential, meaning they've been on the ice for more goals for than against. How in the world does that translate to "Zub has looked better with everyone but Chabot"? They're the only pairing to play over 50 minutes together this year to have a positive goal differential. How do you say "I don't trust the models", which are based on empirical date, but can say "I trust the eye test" which is solely subjective?

Anyway, there's no point continuing this conversation because we're clearly having 2 totally different chats. You're talking about your opinion and what that means to you and I'm talking about stats. Let's just move on.

 

[Micklebot]

Horribly wrong and bordering on fatuous.

Which parts are the facts? Disingenuous, cherry-picked stats about his tenure? Sure, he's been here 5 years and his teams have finished near the bottom. Wasn't that kind of the plan for the first 3 years?

"A team with this much talent"...huh? You read these forums, right? Do people spend more time talking about the lack of talent at the D position, inconsistent goaltending and lack of scoring from the bottom 6F group or about the abundance of talent we have? This team can't simultaneously have enough talent to win more than they lose and also be missing talent at many key positions across the roster.

Is Norris talent? Are Joseph, Motte and Formenton talent? Some people have been ready to fire this guy since game 10. You ask him to coach through the tough times, when you know you're going to lose way more than you win, so you can give him less than 40 games to prove himself in the first year with any sort of expectations?

If anyone had posted a hypothetical roster in the offseason with Norris, Formenton, Joseph, Motte and Zub all missing significant time to injury, with no equivalent replacements, are we actually saying the expectation would have still been playoffs or on the cusp?

There you go, you finally criticized the arguments he made instead of his job. Gold star. That's the point of this place after all, and the discussion is why people link to articles

The point I made was never about whether he was right, or wrongit was about the dismissal of his position based solely on his job. Now that we've gotten past that, meaningful discourse can be had

We added DeBrincat and Giroux, two close to pt per game forwards, Sanderson a highly toghted prospect was added as well, we added a goalie that was in the all Star game last year.

When you compare this year to last, we are pacing to gain 5 pts, but last year we were actually more impacted by injuries than this year, both in terms of cumulative cap hit lost and in terms of lost WAR. Injuries happen to everyone, we aren't unique or particularly hard hit this year, though we did do very poorly at mitigating the impact of injuries.

There's certainly an argument that this team should be better than last year's, more so than the 5 pts we're trending at. We are simply more talented than last year's club, injuries taken into account.

So did DJ get the most out of the group, his opinion is no, he supports it with some facts, and while there's room to disagree with his conclusion based on what's presented, it's very much different than Eklund.

 

[LevelingSolo]

So? Did you expect Bruce to write an opinion piece criticizing the team?

The guy acknowledges that he isn't a sports writer and is coming at this as a fan.



Dude is bringing facts and serious heat

That's the thing...all the other past coaches took hits from the Ottawa media/bloggers and somehow DJ has remained totally immune to this

 

[slamigo]

I see casuals writing hot takes every day here, don't think we really needed more of that type of voice in the mix.

Uh, wtf is a casual? Have you appointed yourself a higher level of fandom? Give your head a shake. Wow. How dare average people write their opinions in an open forum? How dare a newspaper editor publish the opinion of one of the columnists being paid to write his opinion?
If anything, you are casual and Denley's opinion carries a lot more weight. Or maybe your take will be published in tomorrow's paper?

 

[BankStreetParade]

There you go, you finally criticized the arguments he made instead of his job. Gold star. That's the point of this place after all, and the discussion is why people link to articles

The point I made was never about whether he was right, or wrongit was about the dismissal of his position based solely on his job. Now that we've gotten past that, meaningful discourse can be had

We added DeBrincat and Giroux, two close to pt per game forwards, Sanderson a highly toghted prospect was added as well, we added a goalie that was in the all Star game last year.

When you compare this year to last, we are pacing to gain 5 pts, but last year we were actually more impacted by injuries than this year, both in terms of cumulative cap hit lost and in terms of lost WAR. Injuries happen to everyone, we aren't unique or particularly hard hit this year, though we did do very poorly at mitigating the impact of injuries.

There's certainly an argument that this team should be better than last year's, more so than the 5 pts we're trending at. We are simply more talented than last year's club, injuries taken into account.

So did DJ get the most out of the group, his opinion is no, he supports it with some facts, and while there's room to disagree with his conclusion based on what's presented, it's very much different than Eklund.

So which of the arguments he presented haven't already been debated and discussed here ad nauseum? That's the point I'm making. This guy is not qualified to speak about the Senators, admits as much in his opinion piece and provides no new information or discussion points to the conversation. We're all doing just fine spinning around in circles without needing the context and opinion of an unqualified municipal columnist hack.

To address some other points you made, I posted the other day about the insane gulf in production between the top half of the roster and the bottom half. All the talent we have is basically playing to the level they should, in spite of the horrifically low scoring support they're getting from the rest of their teammates. Joseph, Formenton, Motte and Pinto were supposed to be high-end depth. Why are we pretending like this is some manageable hurdle to overcome?

Watson, Kelly, Brassard, Lucchini, Gambrell, Kastelic, Holden, Brannstrom, Hamonic - most of those names are on their way out of the league. Most of them shouldn't have sniffed the lineup if it weren't for injuries. I don't know how you realistically prepare to deal with that kind of injury situation and subsequent lack of depth but it's clear this team can't win by just obliterating teams with special teams.

Look at the teams in playoff positions and then look at their rosters. How many of them have landed where they are despite numerous injuries to key roster players? Everyone points to Toronto and says "look how they've done with all their injuries" but in the 14 games since December 15, they have 15 points and we have 13. Meanwhile, they haven't had any significant injuries at forward so far this year, let alone have played most of the year without their top center and much of their scoring depth.

Are we more talented than last year's club? On paper, yes. Doesn't change the fact that "next man up" mentality means you have to have the guys to live up to that philosophy. And when the team's best players continue to score and produce but those "next guys up" do f***ing nothing, I don't think it's reasonable to turn around and pin it all on the coach.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to them firing DJ. Maybe we'll have a little sense of normalcy around here for a bit again without all the endless doom and gloom.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Coming in Hot Live .. Sens breakdown analysis happening now.
1. Over aggressive forecheck.. turning it over getting caught deep and getting beat up the ice by faster players.
2. Neutral zone turn over; quick transition .. 1st goal vs St. Louis; Forwards caught high.
3. Poor forecheck ; Chabot mishandles; Talbot brain fart; 2nd goal vs St, Louis
4. Stutzle breakout to JBD .. rim dump in ; Batherson creates a lose puck; Tkachuk to Stutzle in the net .. 200 foot play