Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I'm still fairly neutral on DJ, and realize he'll be here until an ownership change, so all the screaming does nothing to change things.

I think he pretty much lost the room. Guys can only follow a system or coach for so long. They need a new voice. And we'll get one, likely in the summer.

 

[Masked]

Not a Zaitsev fan, but was fine after getting called back up.

A little bit of AHL coaching really helped him.

Assen na yo!

 

[KingAlfie11]

Like I said before this team is not making the playoff until we have a new coaching staff, this team has not concept on how to play defense, you have too many forwards that only cares about their stats, and we need better goaltending also, well I guess the rebuild is not over yet

I've generally come to terms that both Smith and Dorion will be out the door this offseason once the team is sold. Four missed seasons for Smith, six missed seasons for Dorion... I don't see a scenario where a new ownership group steps in and doesn't clean house.

I have to agree with you, it's time to clean house with new ownership coming in, start fresh

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Already did, two pages ago. Try to keep up:

ok I will give that a read.

Ok I have read it. Its a cursory overlook on observations but doesn't have much meat . Good try though

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Its just a coincidence that the new players that come here suddenly have their defensive metrics go down, while the players that leave have the opposite.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Its just a coincidence that the new players that come here suddenly have their defensive metrics go down, while the players that leave have the opposite.

3 year graph for defence shows bad then average then bad. So not really proving your point.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Its just a coincidence that the new players that come here suddenly have their defensive metrics go down, while the players that leave have the opposite.

There are certainly some structural issues in the defensive zone but you can't tell me streaky goaltending and Batherson's abysmal defensive play aren't making his numbers significantly worse.

Batherson is -29 this year through 42 games, on his way to the worst +/- in team history. He might actually surpass Dineen's -52 in 93/94.

Compare that to the average player on this team who is around -5 or -6. Even his linemates, Pinto and Debrincat, are "only" -16 and -15. How the f*** do you get to be -29 on a team that up until a game ago was -5 in goal differential through 41 games? That's f***ing absurd. Of course Debrincat's defensive metrics have fallen off a cliff, his primary linemate is trending towards one of the all-time worst defensive seasons in NHL history.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

A change may be inevitable....I just don't believe a change would have made much difference this year with Norris out. Not enough experience at centre

The lack of depth down the middle has been an issue, no doubt, but you don't think a team 1 game below .500 could possibly have pulled out a 3-5 game swing to put them in the hunt? Seems kind of irrational especially given how close a lot of the games were. That would seem like arguing they have maxed out their ceiling with this group and I simply wouldn't agree with that. I'm sure DJ would admit there's been a lot of lost opportunity along the way as well.

 

[Masked]

Compare that to the average player on this team who is around -5 or -6. Even his linemates, Pinto and Debrincat, are "only" -16 and -15. How the f*** do you get to be -29 on a team that up until a game ago was -5 in goal differential through 41 games?

How? This team gets caved in at even strength and the goal differential is a product of excellent special teams. Most goals are on the powerplay and most goals against are at even strength. That kills the plus/minus.

Really odd how special teams are great but even strength the team is horrific. Why is the coaching great at PP/PK but not the rest of the game?

Assen na yo!

 

[BankStreetParade]

How? This team gets caved in at even strength and the goal differential is a product of excellent special teams. Most goals are on the powerplay and most goals against are at even strength. That kills the plus/minus.

Really odd how special teams are great but even strength the team is horrific. Why is the coaching great at PP/PK but not the rest of the game?

Assen na yo!

They haven't been great, collectively, at even strength but if you wanna talk about it, here's some numbers to consider.

Player​	Even strength goal differential​	EV TOI/GP​
Batherson	-26	14:50
Pinto	-16	13:44
Hamonic	-14	15:13
Debrincat	-12	15:13
Tkachuk	-9	14:18
Chabot	-8	21:44
Stutzle	-7	15:51
Sanderson	-7	15:59
Giroux	-1	14:56
Zub	0	19:20
Motte	+2	10:34
Joseph	+2	11:19

Does anything jump out at you lol? At least Pinto's a rookie and slotted too high in the lineup for where he's at in his development cycle, so you can excuse his numbers a bit. Last year, in 46 games, he was a +5 in EV GD which was best on the team of anyone who played 40+ games. This year he's last in the same category in nearly the same amount of games. This stuff isn't rocket science. We can call it coaching all we want but under the same coach, the same system and mostly the same teammates, he went from the best on the team to the worst in one offseason? Really?

All that to say, when you say "they" get caved in at even strength, what you actually mean is 1 line and, more specifically, 1 guy.

 

[Viletho]

They haven't been great, collectively, at even strength but if you wanna talk about it, here's some numbers to consider.

Player​	Even strength goal differential​	EV TOI/GP​
Batherson	-26	14:50
Pinto	-16	13:44
Hamonic	-14	15:13
Debrincat	-12	15:13
Tkachuk	-9	14:18
Chabot	-8	21:44
Stutzle	-7	15:51
Sanderson	-7	15:59
Giroux	-1	14:56
Zub	0	19:20
Motte	+2	10:34
Joseph	+2	11:19

Does anything jump out at you lol? At least Pinto's a rookie and slotted too high in the lineup for where he's at in his development cycle, so you can excuse his numbers a bit. Last year, in 46 games, he was a +5 in EV GD which was best on the team of anyone who played 40+ games. This year he's last in the same category in nearly the same amount of games. This stuff isn't rocket science. We can call it coaching all we want but under the same coach, the same system and mostly the same teammates, he went from the best on the team to the worst in one offseason? Really?

All that to say, when you say "they" get caved in at even strength, what you actually mean is 1 line and, more specifically, 1 guy.

I believe Sanderson is -4 which is impressive when you see that his partner is -14 and that if you exclude that -4 game last week he would be even.

I haven't watch the game because I was on vacation but I haven't seen comment about him being bad that game so I guess he wasn't really at fault for that.

 

[LevelingSolo]

Sounds like Boudreau out soon in Van, could be a good fit here

 

[TheNewEra]

need deadpool to approve a blank check for boudreau

 

[Sens Vader]

If they fire DJ before new ownership you just bring up Mann as interim coach to take us to the summer.

New owners will have to search for a new GM, who will pick their coach.

 

[Beech]

I agree that Hockey is similar to Football (soccer), having played both and read various hockey strategy and coaching materials, and taken many CAHA hockey coaching courses.

However, the D with the puck needs to have more passing options, not just two. There are 5 other players on his team on the ice, which includes the 3Fs the other D and the goaltender. All could be options for a pass if the D is being pressured in his own D zone.

The tight defensive play of some teams takes away some of those options such as:
- the two opposing D may cover two of his team's forwards in the N zone.
- The 3 opposing Fs could be playing tight coverage in the D zone to make passing to the Fs difficult and dangerous.

The D with the puck needs to assess which of his team's players may be open or will become open to receive a pass without taking undue risks. This could include the goaltender if he has puck handling ability.

If the D can skate with the puck it makes it so much easier to exit the D zone because it adds to the options for exiting the D zone. That is one reason I appreciate offensive D, including a D like Brannstrom who has puck handling ability. Of course I like D like Makar and Karlsson better.

yes, but reality will also interfere. If that D man is bellow the dot and in a box that is from board to slot, down to board (brushing against whatever goal post), the winger on the opposite side is more or less out of the question. Your D partner may be close to the oppositions winger. And so it becomes; you (that left or right D man), your closest winger and that center that should be looping left or right, depending on which side.

Inevitably their winger is closing in on you, their center is in front of your goalie, their closest D man may be closing in on your winger or back tracking out of the zone. You have a split second to flick the puck onto the winger or center, have him, flick it out of the zone. It still means a triangle that must be 4-5 yards (12-15 feet) in space only, with the centreman in motion and the winger reasonably stationary.

If their D makes a mistake and pinches, the winger can: 1) let the puck go and hope your center get it, 2) stabs at it some more to force it past the dman and again your center gets it, or 3) flick it on to the center who skates to the area vacated by their D.. if you send the puck to your center, he can skate it out or flick it out.

All system, all can be taught. All require years/decades of organized (well coached) playing to ingrain them in your head.. And must be drilled into your head on a daily bases on the pro side.

A dman skating out of that deep box is dangerous. Offensive flair, offensive skill has its place and time. A puck deep in your end is not a good time for "Bobby Orrism". Wingers and Centremen cannot abandon d men. There must always be one of those 2, in motion. They must be in close contact and exit the zone in more or less a 3 player unit..1 C, 1 W and 1 D.

"That is one reason I appreciate offensive D, including a D like Brannstrom who has puck handling ability".. yup. But no Bobby Orrism and plenty of team-mate support.

 

[swiftwin]

Sounds like Boudreau out soon in Van, could be a good fit here

Please dear god no. Why would we want a coach that's already been fired 3 times in the last 7 years??? Look at how f***ed up an toxic the Nucks locker room is right now. We don't need to undo the good locker room vibes we already have.

I want Trotz. Otherwise, may as well stick with DJ.

 

[Micklebot]

Sounds like Boudreau out soon in Van, could be a good fit here

I like Boudreau but defensive play is not his specialty so I'm not sure he's the solution for us.

They haven't been great, collectively, at even strength but if you wanna talk about it, here's some numbers to consider.

Player​	Even strength goal differential​	EV TOI/GP​
Batherson	-26	14:50
Pinto	-16	13:44
Hamonic	-14	15:13
Debrincat	-12	15:13
Tkachuk	-9	14:18
Chabot	-8	21:44
Stutzle	-7	15:51
Sanderson	-7	15:59
Giroux	-1	14:56
Zub	0	19:20
Motte	+2	10:34
Joseph	+2	11:19

Does anything jump out at you lol? At least Pinto's a rookie and slotted too high in the lineup for where he's at in his development cycle, so you can excuse his numbers a bit. Last year, in 46 games, he was a +5 in EV GD which was best on the team of anyone who played 40+ games. This year he's last in the same category in nearly the same amount of games. This stuff isn't rocket science. We can call it coaching all we want but under the same coach, the same system and mostly the same teammates, he went from the best on the team to the worst in one offseason? Really?

All that to say, when you say "they" get caved in at even strength, what you actually mean is 1 line and, more specifically, 1 guy.

Batherson is a -8 with an EN, that doesn't help,

Interestingly, it's not the defensive side that separates him from his most common linemates,

Tkachuk, Stützle and Batherson all have GA/60 around 3.7, the difference is Stü and Tkachuk have GF/60 around 2.9 while Batherson is around 2.05.

We miss Norris as a defensive conscious on that top line imo. Stü is still coming along defensively, Tkachuk has his warts, and Batherson seems almost checked out at times.

 

[swiftwin]

I like Boudreau but defensive play is not his specialty so I'm not sure he's the solution for us.

No kidding. Why replace a coach that has our PK humming at 81.9% (8th) with a coach that has a PK at 66.7% (32nd!!!).

If we replace DJ, it should be with a strict coach like Trotz. Not a pushover like Boudreau.

 

[LevelingSolo]

Please dear god no. Why would we want a coach that's already been fired 3 times in the last 7 years??? Look at how f***ed up an toxic the Nucks locker room is right now. We don't need to undo the good locker room vibes we already have.

I want Trotz. Otherwise, may as well stick with DJ.

I don't think Boudreau is the issue in Vancouver this year...ask their board, he's the least of their issues

I like Boudreau but defensive play is not his specialty so I'm not sure he's the solution for us.

Batherson is a -8 with an EN, that doesn't help,

Interestingly, it's not the defensive side that separates him from his most common linemates,

Tkachuk, Stützle and Batherson all have GA/60 around 3.7, the difference is Stü and Tkachuk have GF/60 around 2.9 while Batherson is around 2.05.

We miss Norris as a defensive conscious on that top line imo. Stü is still coming along defensively, Tkachuk has his warts, and Batherson seems almost checked out at times.

Bruces teams in Minnesota and Anaheim were great defensively, even that Capitals group got better towards the end of his Tenure.

Having said that Trotz would be my target as well

 

[Micklebot]

No kidding. Why replace a coach that has our PK humming at 81.9% (8th) with a coach that has a PK at 66.7% (32nd!!!).

Special teams are nice, but we're 25th in the league in pts %, DJ is getting replaced, it's just a matter of time. When the PK is struggling that bad, it's usually not coaching, goaltending in Vancouver has been terrible. Conversely, the underlying metrics for our PK aren't impressive, I suspect over the full season we'll see it trend towards average league wide.

If we replace DJ, it should be with a strict coach like Trotz. Not a pushover like Boudreau.

Boudreau has had a lot of success in Washington and Anaheim, he was pretty good his first couple years in Minnesota too, I think we need someone to engrain defensive conscious first, but he's still a very good coach, just not a fit for where we are right now imo.

 

[Micklebot]

Bruces teams in Minnesota and Anaheim were great defensively, even that Capitals group got better towards the end of his Tenure.

Having said that Trotz would be my target as well

I just think Boudreau runs a system that's less focused on defensive play, not that he's bad.

 

[stempniaksen]

I like Boudreau but defensive play is not his specialty so I'm not sure he's the solution for us.

I don't think he'd be my first choice, but with the team built as-is maybe he's the guy who can come in and get them to outscore their defensive issues.

I'm not sure it's the way to win a cup, but his record getting teams to the playoffs speaks for itself and we all know that would at least be a step in the right direction.

Please dear god no. Why would we want a coach that's already been fired 3 times in the last 7 years??? Look at how f***ed up an toxic the Nucks locker room is right now. We don't need to undo the good locker room vibes we already have.

I want Trotz. Otherwise, may as well stick with DJ.

Flipside to that is that he keeps getting hired.

Honestly, at this point give me a re-tread (who has shown he can be successful) over another first time HC who will never sniff the gig again.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

It's a long shot, but with a new ownership group, Alfie involved, and almost certain vacancies at GM and behind the bench, this summer will be our best opportunity at getting a real, elite coach: Trotz. Without all of the above, its a pipe-dream... but if our new group is willing to spend money on staff, I think it's possible.

Bring up Mann as an assistant, hire a hands-on president, keep Bowness and other Mann as AGMs, and have Trotz slowly transition to full-time GM with Mann taking over behind the bench.

If they fire DJ before new ownership you just bring up Mann as interim coach to take us to the summer.

New owners will have to search for a new GM, who will pick their coach.

I doubt they would bring up Mann. It would probably be Capuano. But agreed with your general point.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I like Boudreau but defensive play is not his specialty so I'm not sure he's the solution for us.

Batherson is a -8 with an EN, that doesn't help,

Interestingly, it's not the defensive side that separates him from his most common linemates,

Tkachuk, Stützle and Batherson all have GA/60 around 3.7, the difference is Stü and Tkachuk have GF/60 around 2.9 while Batherson is around 2.05.

We miss Norris as a defensive conscious on that top line imo. Stü is still coming along defensively, Tkachuk has his warts, and Batherson seems almost checked out at times.

ENG don't count into the even strength goals against category, so they wouldn't factor in to his -26 EV GD.

 

[Golden_Jet]

ENG don't count into the even strength goals against category, so they wouldn't factor in to his -26 EV GD.

Empty net goals do count for plus minus.