Fire Colliton

[Blackhawkswincup]

McDouche could have wanted him as bad as he wanted anything he's ever wanted in life, but if the money doesn't work, the money doesn't work. And the money wasn't going to work. That was obvious to EVERYONE.

Money would have worked fine for 2 years

So again if Mcd was running show he wouldn't have given away a golden goose star

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Of course Danny Wirtz is going to side with Bowman, its the guy he kept. Pin it on McD, this helps solidify the decision to keep Stan Bowman. Is it true? Who knows. I do not understand at all the defend Stan Bowman at all costs crowd. You can get on Colliton’s case and that’s fine, he sucks. But who hired him? Or was that McD too? There has to be responsibility taken by Bowman, he is the GM. I have never seen a GM who has had a last place or close to last place team for 3 years get so much defending.

 

[ploppsdman]

For those of you calling for Gerard Gallant to be hired, something clearly has to be wrong there. This guy was fired by the Panthers and made to take a taxi home from Carolina. Then he gets fired mid season by Vegas? There just seems to be some serious red flags here.

 

[BK]

Of course Danny Wirtz is going to side with Bowman, its the guy he kept. Pin it on McD, this helps solidify the decision to keep Stan Bowman. Is it true? Who knows. I do not understand at all the defend Stan Bowman at all costs crowd. You can get on Colliton’s case and that’s fine, he sucks. But who hired him? Or was the McD too? There has to be responsibility taken by Bowman, he is the GM. I have never seen a GM who has had a last place or close to last place team for 3 years get so much defending.

No one defends him at all costs.

 

[TLEH]

Of course Danny Wirtz is going to side with Bowman, its the guy he kept. Pin it on McD, this helps solidify the decision to keep Stan Bowman. Is it true? Who knows. I do not understand at all the defend Stan Bowman at all costs crowd. You can get on Colliton’s case and that’s fine, he sucks. But who hired him? Or was that McD too? There has to be responsibility taken by Bowman, he is the GM. I have never seen a GM who has had a last place or close to last place team for 3 years get so much defending.

I'm not defending Bowman. I have listed plenty of moves that he has gotten wrong. Jeremy Colliton was his hire and I voted YES to this poll, there is another thing he got wrong. Bowman could have also been fired along with Q and I would have been okay with it. This argument started because Q's mistakes that are obvious (to me) are being thrown aside.

 

[Panzerspitze]

If the best defense of Colliton is that he gave a chance to a guy who tops out as a 13th forward after people here had written him off, that speaks for itself.

Keep setting up your strawman. This is a 12th seed that upset the 5th seed, and got more competitive as the series went on with the No. 1 seed in the Conference which were undefeated previously. Calling for the firing of the HC after going down 4-1 with a deeply flawed roster and a core that hadn't won a single playoff series since 2015 is the definition of knee jerk reaction.

 

[ChiHawks10]

No one defends him at all costs.

Literally zero people on here.

 

[hawksrule]

Keep setting up your strawman. This is a 12th seed that upset the 5th seed, and got more competitive as the series went on with the No. 1 seed in the Conference which were undefeated previously. Calling for the firing of the HC after going down 4-1 with a deeply flawed roster and a core that hadn't won a single playoff series since 2015 is the definition of knee jerk reaction.

You're the one with the strawman. I haven't seen a single person in here say he should be fired for this series alone. There is a body of work.

 

[JaegerDice]

It's been openly acknowledged by the Hawks organization and openly reported by the media, that all the major players in the Blackhawks management have a voice at the table.

Who gets final say on what generally follows the traditional hierarchy, but McD, Bowman (and his consultants), Q (and his coaching staff) all have say and all have influence.

Bowman, as GM, will obviously ultimately wear all the player moves made on his watch, but it's asinine to suggest that McD and Q didn't have significant influence through both voice (to Stan and to each other) and in action.

There's been plenty of smoke that McD's fixation on 'continuity' and his obsession with ensuring the Blackhawks are seen as a team that treats players well have had an impact on contracts. And we know Stan isn't going to just hold onto players that his coach refuses to play, cause he'd rather have assets that the team can/will use than a guy sitting on the bench wasting a roster spot.

 

[Tripp Longfellow]

Does anyone else get as mad as me when our wingers collapse so far down in our own end you can throw a small blanket over all 5 Hawks?
All teams seem to know this, cause havoc in the slot and throw it back to point for wide open bombs from the opps D.
I dunno if this is part of JC’s defensive scheme or just the wingers thinking they have to help because our D have trouble moving players out of the slot....either way it drives me nuts.

 

[JaegerDice]

Does anyone else get as mad as me when our wingers collapse so far down in our own end you can throw a small blanket over all 5 Hawks?
All teams seem to know this, cause havoc in the slot and throw it back to point for wide open bombs from the opps D.
I dunno if this is part of JC’s defensive scheme or just the wingers thinking they have to help because our D have trouble moving players out of the slot....either way it drives me nuts.

More and more teams are defending this way.

Generally speaking, point shots are accounting for less and less goals. Which makes sense, they're generally low percentage shots.

Teams would rather collapse to the 'house' and try to out-man the 3 guys left, tie-up sticks or clear the crease.

So they'll move up far enough to line their body up with the puck to block the lane, but not so far out as to try and strip the puck from the point-men.

If you have a really mobile team, then you could probably be more aggressive. But not really sure there's much evidence that it's more effective in terms of results.

Remember, the 2013 Blackhawks were a really mobile, aggressive team on defense and the PK, and even they largely left the points alone on the PK to concentrate on the more dangerous chances. And it worked brilliantly.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I'll put this in here:
Keys to the offseason for every eliminated NHL team

There has also been buzz around the league that this could be it for GM Stan Bowman and coach Jeremy Colliton. The caveat is that Colliton has one year remaining on his deal. With the Blackhawks (like many teams around the league) auditing their spending during a period of economic uncertainty, ownership might not find it palatable to pay two coaches' contracts next season. But if Colliton does go, it's assumed that Bowman would as well; the GM won't get the opportunity to hire yet another coach.

 

[Panzerspitze]

You're the one with the strawman. I haven't seen a single person in here say he should be fired for this series alone. There is a body of work.

I see plenty saying JC should be fired for playing Mini Q over 10 mins in the elimination game. That's an even smaller sample of work, disregarding the fact the games got more competitive vs. VGK, as if this roster has a chance beating the No. 1 seed four times with the top-pairing D not scoring and most of the expensive forwards doing jackshit even when facing elimination. With the same core+Panarin+Hammer, HOF Quenneville's No. 1 seed got swept in the first-round. That's your comparable body of work with what JC has to work with since he took over.

It's not like management has been hesitant to whack the HC during regular season (Exhibits 1A and 1B: Savard and Quenneville). So why not let JC get another shot at it with some fresh young talent infusion, unless Gallant is absolutely going to take the reign and turn this mixed roster around? These other options (Laviolette, et al.) can outdo Quenneville couldn't after 2015? I don't think so.

 

[JaegerDice]

I'll put this in here:
Keys to the offseason for every eliminated NHL team

If that's the case, I hope they go outside the organization for the next GM.

I'd prefer a fresh voice with no loyalty or attachment to any of the players on the roster.

I'd obviously also prefer a more progressive usage of analytics and complete overhaul of the pro-scouting department. The Blackhawks claim to have their own analytics and even if that's true, their own analytics are clearly not getting good results. Their players are very clearly not performing as well as the players that the open-source analytics available to everyone show are playing well. If the open-source stuff is better than your special sauce, then ditch the special sauce.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I'll put this in here:
Keys to the offseason for every eliminated NHL team

Its ESPN though

I mean its about as much value when it comes to hockey news as asking a random person in Mongolia about Hawks offseason

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Its ESPN though

I mean its about as much value when it comes to hockey news as asking a random person in Mongolia about Hawks offseason

While true, I thought it was worth posting.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Its ESPN though

I mean its about as much value when it comes to hockey news as asking a random person in Mongolia about Hawks offseason

This. ESPN discussing hockey would be like TSN discussing the NFL. It's not exactly their bread and butter.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

This. ESPN discussing hockey would be like TSN discussing the NFL.

ESPN and TSN are the same company. In fact, TSN is the Canadian branded ESPN. ESPN focuses on the NFL and TSN focuses on NHL. Those are the national sports in each country, so how can you blame them? Why do you think LeBrun works for TSN instead of ESPN now?

I've been to Canada multiple times they even use the same graphics for a bunch of stuff.

 

[JaegerDice]

This. ESPN discussing hockey would be like TSN discussing the NFL. It's not exactly their bread and butter.

I wouldn't trust anybody at ESPN to make a particularly good analysis of a game or series or player or team, true. But as far as just reporting the rumblings they're hearing, I don't think it's nothing. It's not like people inside the NHL have a 'no ESPN' policy. They're as likely to have sources as anybody.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

Did the Blackhawks not beat Edmonton this year? No credit for that I guess, three one goal losses(one in OT) to Vegas...not too shabby, PK worked wonders just need PP to match, thing was Vegas doesn't take many penalties so no grove was to be had in the series
I think the defence will be improved with Seabs and Ian Mitchell's additions...
Suter will improve the offence maybe at the cost of Strome
What I don't understand is the persistent Colliton bashing?

Improved with Seabs. Really?

Let's look at it a different way. If the opposite of bashing is praise, when exactly has Colliton shown to earn praise? The bashing issues are well established, but what about the reverse?

 

[Backyard Hockey]

ESPN and TSN are the same company. In fact, TSN is the Canadian branded ESPN. ESPN focuses on the NFL and TSN focuses on NHL. Those are the national sports in each country, so how can you blame them? Why do you think LeBrun works for TSN instead of ESPN now?

I've been to Canada multiple times they even use the same graphics for a bunch of stuff.

The Canadian graphics smell like maple syrup and poutine.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

The Canadian graphics smell like maple syrup and poutine.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

I wouldn't trust anybody at ESPN to make a particularly good analysis of a game or series or player or team, true. But as far as just reporting the rumblings they're hearing, I don't think it's nothing. It's not like people inside the NHL have a 'no ESPN' policy. They're as likely to have sources as anybody.

Wait, ESPN talks about sports? I thought they moved on from sports talk a couple of years ago.

 

[hawksrule]

I see plenty saying JC should be fired for playing Mini Q over 10 mins in the elimination game. That's an even smaller sample of work, disregarding the fact the games got more competitive vs. VGK, as if this roster has a chance beating the No. 1 seed four times with the top-pairing D not scoring and most of the expensive forwards doing jackshit even when facing elimination. With the same core+Panarin+Hammer, HOF Quenneville's No. 1 seed got swept in the first-round. That's your comparable body of work with what JC has to work with since he took over.

It's not like management has been hesitant to whack the HC during regular season (Exhibits 1A and 1B: Savard and Quenneville). So why not let JC get another shot at it with some fresh young talent infusion, unless Gallant is absolutely going to take the reign and turn this mixed roster around? These other options (Laviolette, et al.) can outdo Quenneville couldn't after 2015? I don't think so.

Now you're just talking and not listening. Your repeated strawman seems to be that he shouldn't be fired based on this series alone. I'm saying that he should be let go based on his two seasons of work, and because there are better options out there. If you're not going to address what is actually being said, please don't bother responding to me.

 

[Backyard Hockey]

I travel to Canada a LOT on business (before Covid I was usually in Toronto 2-3x month and Vancouver/Montreal at least once a month).

Man I miss the poutine. Best I've had are a bone marrow poutine in Vancouver and a pulled pork poutine at some random ass bar in St Catherines.