Finland's status and reputation in the hockey world (merged)

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

And what is your interest in this crusade campaign that you started? A bit more pathetic than the 'holding hands' you're trying to insinuate here.

Absolutely no particular interest other than discussion and explaining my opinion. As a Habs fan and huge Koivu supporter (even in the discussions that pop up on our board to this day), I have nothing against Finland or its hockey players. If multiple people want to engage me in conversation via replies, don't be surprised if I pick up the ball and run with it. I have no problem with taking the time to explain myself. The worst "offense" I'm responsible for so far is to ask those on the other side to do the same.

 

[psycho_dad*]

You must realize how much of a "We feel like this, and so anyone who disagrees is just wrong" that sounds

People have provided you factual evidence on why Finland is and has been top 4 for the past 15-20 years and continues to be that. Actual results from actual games.

You argue with **** like "domestic league attendance" and whatever else metrics YOU came up to support your absolutely ridiculous view. And you expect people to just accept it as a legit opinion?

When a creationist tells me that evolution can't be true, because "you weren't there" or "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" or "I was taught that the answers are in Genesis so it has to be the truth", I will challenge their circular, made up, crackpot ********.

Just like I challenge your views on how hockey nations should be ranked based on pretty much everything else but the RESULTS of the hockey games and tournaments where those teams compete.

 

[Borlag]

Personally I think the more interesting question isn't about the teams or the countries themselves, but the game systems and coaches. Looking at the player material available for each country, and what the coaches keep getting with their material, would it be far fetched to think that perhaps the best coaches in the world aren't all in the NHL? Look at what Latvia managed to do with what they had? Look at what Finland is doing each year with what they have?

Then look at what teams like Russia, USA, Canada and Sweden keeps doing with what is more often than not the top 4 rosters in terms of skills. None of the other countries have that much star power in them, none of the other countries have that kind of depth as they have. Yet Russia and USA both fail more often than not, and even Canada and Sweden have much more failures than what should be expected with their player material. Like some posters have said, for Sweden it's 5th place or gold, no in betweens. Why is that? Why is it that Canada keeps failing in world championship tournaments despite literally always having the superior team (and supposedly the superior coaching as well, at least based on the merits of the said coach vs his opponent).

And just so it's not unclear, to me failure is not getting a medal of any kind, regardless of the tournament. All 5 of the abovementioned countries (Russia, USA, Canada, Sweden and Finland) are most definitely good enough to have consistent success. Yet only Finland can claim that they do. Why?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

People have provided you factual evidence on why Finland is and has been top 4 for the past 15-20 years and continues to be that. Actual results from actual games.

You argue with **** like "domestic league attendance" and whatever else metrics YOU came up to support your absolutely ridiculous view. And you expect people to just accept it as a legit opinion?

When a creationist tells me that evolution can't be true, because "you weren't there" or "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" or "I was taught that the answers are in Genesis so it has to be the truth", I will challenge their circular, made up, crackpot ********.

Just like I challenge your views on how hockey nations should be ranked based on pretty much everything else but the RESULTS of the hockey games and tournaments where those teams compete.

I've seen some attempts to bring an evolution-related analogy to a discussion around here, but this might possibly be the worst.

 

[psycho_dad*]

I've seen some attempts to bring an evolution-related analogy to a discussion around here, but this might possibly be the worst.

Your reasoning is just as ridiculous as the yec people. It's not about facts and results for you, it's all about how you feel.

 

[Samcanadian]

Tier 1: Canada Sweden Russia

Tier 2: Finland USA

Tier 3: Czechs Slovakia

 

[psycho_dad*]

Tier 1: Canada Sweden Russia

Tier 2: Finland USA

Tier 3: Czechs Slovakia

Russia has no place before finland, no way to justify that with results. You might feel this way, it's just not based on anything real.

 

[TheFeistyFinn]

really don't wanna read all this BS in here but ofc Finland is top4 if you look at the recent achievements which is the only thing that matters when considering top countries..recent achievements! if some random dudes wants to include useless details like the amount of NHL'ers or FEL attendance/salary...just ignore them. they cannot be taken seriously.
Russia has fallen off from top4 due to weak performances in international tournaments in recent years.
sure, they have better individuals than we do, more NHL superstars but they don't win them anything. our "weak FEL & KHL players" win us medals.
i got huge respect for russia tho, i love most of their players. if only they would learn to play as a team then they would be in top4 again easily and we would be out.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I think Finland has a great team and I love 'em. They're always my second-favourite team next to Canada for the very same reason we see them starting to really emerge as a hockey power. Finland is unique in Europe in the sense that unlike other Euro teams, hockey is the #1 sport and not soccer. That makes them the only country other than Canada to feel that way. As a Canadian, I gotta love them for that. I believe that they will eventually be #2 in the world after Canada.

 

[Laineux]

Finland is third. Canada clearly #1, Sweden #2 and Finland #3.

Sorry but Finland has been better than USA or Russia, it's not arguable. Last 10 years or last 20 years or last 5 years...

 

[mattihp]

Finland is third. Canada clearly #1, Sweden #2 and Finland #3.

Sorry but Finland has been better than USA or Russia, it's not arguable. Last 10 years or last 20 years or last 5 years...

WHAT ARE YOU BASING THAT ON? Solely on performance and not potential and should/could/wold haves?

BLASPHEMY!

 

[hitmen19]

I always cheer for finland, after Canada. I almost think this thread is exactly why finland doesn't get more credit. Finland is happy to win the bronze, but until finland starts having a gold or nothing mentality, like the Canadians, americans, swedes or Russians, they just won't get that respect. When there are really 5 teams that could have won this tournament, getting the bronze is so meh. Wow, you came in 3rd out of the 5 teams that were going to compete for gold.

And its always like were waiting for finland to have that defining win. Whether it would have been 04 world cup final, or 06 torino, or even beating swedes in the semi finals in sochi. You need that on your resume. you just do. When the top countries in the hockey world are limited to 5 or 6 that could legitimately win a title at an event, you need to win one. The world junior title was a good start

 

[psycho_dad*]

Finland is happy to win the bronze, but until finland starts having a gold or nothing mentality, like the Canadians, americans, swedes or Russians, they just won't get that respect.

Finland is there to win it, they want the gold more than anything. If they can't get it, they will take whatever they can, they are representing their country.

What in the actual ****, are you really saying that because the players RESPECT the olympics and compete to the bitter end as athletes, they are WORSE than some quitting losers who claim to "not care" to represent their country with pride even if they can't get the first place?


This "they just didn't care" argument is only for sore losers. USA players were trying their best in the bronze medal game but after 3-0 they did give up. Even in the third period, they were diving infront of the slapshots of Sami Salo who has one of the hardest shots in the game. Yes, they tried. They were just the worse team.

And mentality is just one of the attributes of a player, the need to keep pushing even when you've been knocked down.....losers quit and don't fight until the very end. Anyone saying "we did not try our best because we did not get to the gold medal game" is not a professional athlete, they are mentally weaker than the ones who still live to fight another day. Why the **** would Finland get more respect if they developed a loser mentality like that? Riddle me that.

 

[hitmen19]

Finland is there to win it, they want the gold more than anything. If they can't get it, they will take whatever they can, they are representing their country.

What in the actual ****, are you really saying that because the players RESPECT the olympics and compete to the bitter end as athletes, they are WORSE than some quitting losers who claim to "not care" to represent their country with pride even if they can't get the first place?


This "they just didn't care" argument is only for sore losers. USA players were trying their best in the bronze medal game but after 3-0 they did give up. Even in the third period, they were diving infront of the slapshots of Sami Salo who has one of the hardest shots in the game. Yes, they tried. They were just the worse team.

And mentality is just one of the attributes of a player, the need to keep pushing even when you've been knocked down.....losers quit and don't fight until the very end. Anyone saying "we did not try our best because we did not get to the gold medal game" is not a professional athlete, they are mentally weaker than the ones who still live to fight another day. Why the **** would Finland get more respect if they developed a loser mentality like that? Riddle me that.

as evident by your play against Sweden,finland was just happy to beat Russia, accept losing to Sweden, and try hard for 3rd. happens everytime. don't expect to be included in big boys club until you win something. third place finishes are for second tier teams

 

[psycho_dad*]

as evident by your play against Sweden,finland was just happy to beat Russia

No, they had more quality chances than Sweden and came close to winning a game where roster wise Sweden had a massive advantage....Finland lost 4 of their top centers and #1 goalie was out of that game. Still they managed to create more quality chances than Sweden but lost. They were heartbroken after the loss, as they have always been after a big loss. Ever seen the interviews after the final game of 2006 where Finland lost?

It's a complete myth that Finland cares less about winning than any other nation, it's so idiotic I don't even know why I bother to respond to this kind of garbage.

But whatever, if you truly respect more the ones who claim to give up after the semifinal, go right ahead. If the loser mentality "just stay down" is more honorable in your opinion.....whatever.


And you would count Russia or USA ahead of Finland? What best on best olympics did they win? USA are big boys because despite of never winning, they TALK like they don't have enough honor to put up a fight in the bronze game? Wtf dude.

I've seen russian players, swedes, canadians celebrating winning bronze. Maybe you should watch games more.

 

[TANK200]

I always cheer for finland, after Canada. I almost think this thread is exactly why finland doesn't get more credit. Finland is happy to win the bronze, but until finland starts having a gold or nothing mentality, like the Canadians, americans, swedes or Russians, they just won't get that respect. When there are really 5 teams that could have won this tournament, getting the bronze is so meh. Wow, you came in 3rd out of the 5 teams that were going to compete for gold.

And its always like were waiting for finland to have that defining win. Whether it would have been 04 world cup final, or 06 torino, or even beating swedes in the semi finals in sochi. You need that on your resume. you just do. When the top countries in the hockey world are limited to 5 or 6 that could legitimately win a title at an event, you need to win one. The world junior title was a good start

This comment pretty much sums it up. It's hilarious to see all of these Finnish fans talking about how their country is such a great hockey power because they've won a few bronze medals. Go ahead and take your little participant ribbons while the big boys compete for gold. Once Finland starts actually winning, they will get respect from the rest of the hockey world.

 

[hitmen19]

No, they had more quality chances than Sweden and came close to winning a game where roster wise Sweden had a massive advantage....Finland lost 4 of their top centers and #1 goalie was out of that game. Still they managed to create more quality chances than Sweden but lost. They were heartbroken after the loss, as they have always been after a big loss. Ever seen the interviews after the final game of 2006 where Finland lost?

It's a complete myth that Finland cares less about winning than any other nation, it's so idiotic I don't even know why I bother to respond to this kind of garbage.

But whatever, if you truly respect more the ones who claim to give up after the semifinal, go right ahead. If the loser mentality "just stay down" is more honorable in your opinion.....whatever.

as opposed to the injury excuse mentality??? Yeah, injuries happen in sports. Doesn't mean you get to always use that as an excuse. Canada was without 2 of the top 10 players in the world, and with girioux it would have been 3 of top 10 in world.

Finland just doesn't win the "big games" but love winning the big game for third. That to them is always the gold medal game because they never think they can beat Sweden like torino or sochi, when the chips are down.

alfreddson actually apologized after the semi final game saying it was a game without intensity and not worthy of a semi final

 

[psycho_dad*]

That to them is always the gold medal game because they never think they can beat Sweden like torino or sochi, when the chips are down.

To them? So you are telling a Finn that you know better how I value winning the gold or the bronze? What a ****ing tool you are.

Canada is obviously the #1, Sweden is just as clear cut #2, and Finland is easily the #3.

You are trying to argue that Russia and USA who have not won a best on best tournament just like Finland hasn't, are somehow better because they have a ****tier attitude and less medals.

Your argument is still absolutely idiotic.

 

[Hans Moleman]

From all of these threads i've noticed there are a lot of posts from Canadian/US/Swedish fans that are very patronizing to the Finns. I actually long for the day that they aren't considered the underdog vs the current consensus top 4, so that announcers can stop calling them "pesky" or what-have-you. Their current crop of youngsters is a good start. Too bad they had so many busts in the previous decade, but it's turning around for them. The Czechs and Slovaks are the ones that really need a hockey renaissance like the Finns are having right now.

 

[mattihp]

From all of these threads i've noticed there are a lot of posts from Canadian/US/Swedish fans that are very patronizing to the Finns. I actually long for the day that they aren't considered the underdog vs the current consensus top 4, so that announcers can stop calling them "pesky" or what-have-you. Their current crop of youngsters is a good start. Too bad they had so many busts in the previous decade, but it's turning around for them. The Czechs and Slovaks are the ones that really need a hockey renaissance like the Finns are having right now.

Meh, rotten eggs can be found in any country's batches. The ignore button is there for a reason

 

[psycho_dad*]

From all of these threads i've noticed there are a lot of posts from Canadian/US/Swedish fans that are very patronizing to the Finns.

Canadians and Swedes can be (although not classy) because they have a legitimate claim that they should be ranked higher.

USA and Russia fans do not have a leg to stand on, they have done worse, so they shouldn't talk ****. It's too easy to refute with actual results.

 

[hitmen19]

To them? So you are telling a Finn that you know better how I value winning the gold or the bronze? What a ****ing tool you are.

Canada is obviously the #1, Sweden is just as clear cut #2, and Finland is easily the #3.

You are trying to argue that Russia and USA who have not won a best on best tournament just like Finland hasn't, are somehow better because they have a ****tier attitude and less medals.

Your argument is still absolutely idiotic.

this is a thread asking what people's perception is about finland's hockey program. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

im not arguing that they are better because they have a different attitude, its that they don't pump their chest out by getting third always.

even some of those bronzes are dubious

in nagano

they lose to the Czechs and Russian in prelims and beat Kazakhstan, but who didn't.
then in qf beat Sweden by a goal, but then get smoked by Russia in semi's and all of a sudden their in the bronze medal game???? I realize that is how the tournament is set up, but wow, they win one game of significance of the 4 they played, and yet are playing for a medal. Even to this day, if Canada had won bronze, not one Canadian would be bringing it up, the loss to the Czech's in the shootout would still be the defining game for them. Yeah, you can try to say that im lying and stuff, but I still don't give a rats ass that Canada lost that game. Sorry, I don't, bronzes don't do anything for me when all I care about is golds.


finland has 1 gold in mens worlds in last 15 years. won its first junior gold this last year in 15 years. Never won a best on best. feels like they always lose to Sweden, and to be frank in the biggest games, I was quite disappointed in the semi final game. Seemed like no passion from both sides, and even the players admitted as much. I don't know, is that really a worthy record of the team you think is third?

This is about perception. That's how I feel, there is no right or wrong, its a perception.

 

[Arne]

Finland just doesn't win the "big games" but love winning the big game for third. That to them is always the gold medal game because they never think they can beat Sweden like torino or sochi, when the chips are down.

You're hilarious. I don't know where that claim comes from, it's quite Pejorative Slured, and I've stated this already in another thread but I'll say it again. Finland doesn't go to any tournament to just survive or aim for the bronze. The goal is to win the whole thing. Nothing less. If we lose in the semis, we don't just throw in the towel after that. Guys get their **** together and play that one last game. Of course they're happy when they win it, even though it's nothing compared to a gold medal. I don't know what's so hard to understand.

 

[Borlag]

You're hilarious. I don't know where that claim comes from, it's quite Pejorative Slured, and I've stated this already in another thread but I'll say it again. Finland doesn't go to any tournament to just survive or aim for the bronze. The goal is to win the whole thing. Nothing less. If we lose in the semis, we don't just throw in the towel after that. Guys get their **** together and play that one last game. Of course they're happy when they win it, even though it's nothing compared to a gold medal. I don't know what's so hard to understand.

They're simply never going to get it. We go into every tournament to win, we don't always expect to win, but we go there to win regardless. If we don't win, we make damn sure that we gave our all. This is the premise for pretty much every game as well for as long as there are games to be played. The same thing applies to pretty much everything Finland does, we're a country full of people who never give up.

Can't screw the beauty queen after the party? We'll be tapping the runner ups in a threesome. Because that's how awesome we are (last part obviously a joke)

 

[NHL Dude 120]

What amazes me as a Finn from this tournament is our defense. It was supposed to be the weakest of links and horrible. It was great. 5 goals against in games against Russia, Canada, Sweden and USA. Great goaltenging helps too but that's an impressive number.

Quite funny that Norway and Austria scored as many goals against us than those teams

I thought the weakness for Finland was the offense.