WC: Finland 2024 roster talk

[FinPanda]

So what would you think? Did KHL elevate and help our players to be more ready for this kind of level of hockey?

Note I´m not claiming it helping Finnish hockey as whole. This is just (almost) tip of the iceberg. But to give stronger competition to be ready in this level?

Our players skill levels definitely benefited from playing in the KHL. I would say leaving KHL definitely made our teams worse, but it was a right call to leave KHL.

 

[FiLe]

Any idea BTW if Harri Pesonen has quit his NT career?

I don't recall him making any official announcement. Still, given his age (turning 36 this year), it would not surprise me if we've seen the last of him.

So what would you think? Did KHL elevate and help our players to be more ready for this kind of level of hockey?

Note I´m not claiming it helping Finnish hockey as whole. This is just (almost) tip of the iceberg. But to give stronger competition to be ready in this level?

The KHL was never a development league. Save for perhaps an exception or two, the Finns who signed there were either NHL washouts or late-20-somethings who had made some name for themselves as career Liiga players. In other words, any Finnish player who made a career there was likely already at the moment of signing as good as they ever were. In fact, given the rather... fickle nature of the Russian business culture, the pre-war KHL was perhaps even more of a sink-or-swim league than the NHL is. The signed import either found out that he has what it takes quite fast, or was washed out. So the ultimate effect of the KHL to the depth of our player pool was quite negligible.

Of course, playing against tougher opposition night in night out might make it a bit easier for a player to retain their best form, but it's highly unlikely that he becomes notably worse by playing in the Swiss League or the SHL instead. Or even Liiga.

One positive effect the KHL did have was that it allowed the players to showcase their talents better, which made the selections easier for our NT staff. For example, if we have two players capable of posting 30-goal seasons in Liiga, it might be that one of them would have been able to do the same in the KHL in its heyday - which also makes him more likely to be an effective WHC performer - while the other would not. But without the KHL as a measuring stick, it becomes more difficult for our bench bosses to single out those solid performers, even though the actual depth of the pool may be no different than it was before the war.

 

[Sanf]

The KHL was never a development league. Save for perhaps an exception or twot, the Finns who signed there were either NHL washouts or late-20-somethings who had made some name for themselves as career Liiga players. In other words, any Finnish player who made a career there was likely already at the moment of signing as good as they ever were. In fact, given the rather... fickle nature of the Russian business culture, the pre-war KHL was perhaps even more of a sink-or-swim league than the NHL is. The signed import either found out that he has what it takes quite fast, or was washed out. So the ultimate effect of the KHL to the depth of our player pool was quite negligible.

Well yes I agree that KHL "was" not a development league. Though I´m not sure if especially Switzerland is either.

I was just wondering because lot of our core in these past years did play and some even took steps in KHL. Sometimes media and we like to scream crisis in these moments when we do bad in WHC. And yes there are questions of our player development.

But at the moment our team should not be carried by Helenius,O.Kapanen or any 20 or under. These past golden years our core was mainly from 90-94. Now at the moment it should change roughly to 95-00. They should be in prime now and make the core. Ofcourse it is not that black and white. But this should be the time of our golden generation. And yes the best are in NHL, but if it really was golden generation there should be depth too? And guys like Kuokkanen, Borgström, Saarela... can´t even make it to the team while playing in NA and SHL.

 

[FiLe]

And yes the best are in NHL, but if it really was golden generation there should be depth too? And guys like Kuokkanen, Borgström, Saarela... can´t even make it to the team while playing in NA and SHL.

And all were leading players on their club teams this season. So it's not like they developed into a bunch of scrubs. So, why didn't Jalonen pick them, you wonder. I kind of already told you, didn't I? While the KHL hasn't affected that depth all that much, it has affected the opportunities to showcase that depth. If they were playing in the KHL, they might not be any better or worse than they are now, but it would be easier for them to be noticed by the NT staff. And it might also give them a bit more rope if they aren't instant successes on EHT.

In other words, the KHL exodus might not affect the actual level of those players, but it does affect our perspectives of those players... and, for once, that "us" also includes Jalonen.

 

[FinPanda]

Olli Määttä is one of my favourite defenseman and he has never let us down. I've liked him since olympics 2014.

 

[Sanf]

Olli Määttä is one of my favourite defenseman and he has never let us down. I've liked him since olympics 2014.

Yes. Shame that all sort of health problems may have slightly affect his career. But still very respectable career.

He still have bit way to be among the players that have come to NT after season has ended in NA most times. Most appearances...

8 times: Olli Jokinen
6 times: Mikko Koivu, Jussi Jokinen, Ville Peltonen
5 times: Christian Ruuttu, Tuomo Ruutu, Jarkko Ruutu, Teemu Selänne, Jyrki Lumme, Mikael Granlund

Now this is not any kind of patriotism measurement thing. Mostly just trivia. And there are many reasons why players decline or can´t come. But ofcourse much respect for the guys who are ready to play in NT and give entertainment to the people.

 

[Mestaruus]

And yes the best are in NHL, but if it really was golden generation there should be depth too?

Speaking of which, now that Czechia is playing Sweden, it feels so funny watching Czechia have Pastrnak and Necas playing. Both are NHL playoffs second round drop outs and those series were 6 games series each. There's the home team factor luring more good players, yes, but the fact stands we have better NHL players than them and we simply can't have almost any of such of our own guys. For this reason in some way it's a relief loosing Jukka Jalonen's stubborn self. He's very succesful in his own methods, but it's so boring way. I want to see some the best Finnish players playing in WHC tournaments each time to be more excited about the team, even if it's risky with them being tired, jetlagged or bad fits (AKA can't find proper lines in short amount of time). KHL playing a factor in our success was a good point and it might be true, but because that era is now over, waiting for some of our best NHL players has become more valuable.

Pennanen might have some similar traits to Jukka Jalonen's, but hopefully with this part he can be a bit more patient. We could've easily started the tournament with 7 D-men and 12 forwards and kept some of the Jukurit boys unstamped, especially when the preliminary round's schedule was such that we faced two top teams in the last 3 games.

 

[FinPanda]

Speaking of which, now that Czechia is playing Sweden, it feels so funny watching Czechia have Pastrnak and Necas playing. Both are NHL playoffs second round drop outs and those series were 6 games series each. There's the home team factor luring more good players, yes, but the fact stands we have better NHL players than them and we simply can't have almost any of such of our own guys. For this reason in some way it's a relief loosing Jukka Jalonen's stubborn self. He's very succesful in his own methods, but it's so boring way. I want to see some the best Finnish players playing in WHC tournaments each time to be more excited about the team, even if it's risky with them being tired, jetlagged or bad fits (AKA can't find proper lines in short amount of time). KHL playing a factor in our success was a good point and it might be true, but because that era is now over, waiting for some of our best NHL players has become more valuable.

Pennanen might have some similar traits to Jukka Jalonen's, but hopefully with this part he can be a bit more patient. We could've easily started the tournament with 7 D-men and 12 forwards and kept some of the Jukurit boys unstamped, especially when the preliminary round's schedule was such that we faced two top teams in the last 3 games.

We won gold once because we had Lindell and Heiskanen coming late. It has been proven than it works. I don't understand why we didn't wait.

 

[FiLe]

I don't understand why we didn't wait.

If Jalonen was aware that these players would say no, then it's understandable. If he didn't, well... a top shelf player is a top shelf player is a top shelf player.

 

[FinPanda]

If Jalonen was aware that these players would say no, then it's understandable. If he didn't, well... a top shelf player is a top shelf player is a top shelf player.

Yeah we can't be sure. I would have imagined that Aho wanted to play for Finland but maybe he had some small injury or something why he couldn't make it. Only Jalonen and Lehtinen know for sure.

 

[FiLe]

One thing that might have affected our top guys' willingness to represent - and I don't mean positively - is the upcoming 4-nations Face-off. Czechs aren't in it, and neither are the Swiss, so they might have been extra motivated to show up here, whereas our guys know they get their spotlight come next February. And despite our historic depth, Sweden still has double the amount of NHLers when compared to us - so they not only naturally had more players available when the regular season ends, but there's actual competition for those spots.

And us? Well, any of us can build a 23-man mock roster right now, and at least 18-19 of those guys will also feature in the actual team if they're healthy.

 

[FinPanda]

One thing that might have affected our top guys' willingness to represent - and I don't mean positively - is the upcoming 4-nations Face-off. Czechs aren't in it, and neither are the Swiss, so they might have been extra motivated to show up here, whereas our guys know they get their spotlight come next February. And despite our historic depth, Sweden still has double the amount of NHLers when compared to us - so they not only naturally had more players available when the regular season ends, but there's actual competition for those spots.

And us? Well, any of us can build a 23-man mock roster right now, and at least 18-19 of those guys will also feature in the actual team if they're healthy.

Like this?

Rantanen - Barkov - Laine
Hintz - Aho - Granlund
Teräväinen - Haula - Maccelli
Kakko - Lundell - Lehkonen
(Luostarinen, Kapanen, Kiviranta, Tolvanen, Puustinen other potential names)

Lindell - Heiskanen
Määttä - Jokiharju
Ristolainen - Mikkola
Hakanpää - Välimäki
(Vaakanainen)

Saros
Luukkonen
Lankinen
(Kähkönen, Husso

 

[Mestaruus]

We won gold once because we had Lindell and Heiskanen coming late. It has been proven than it works. I don't understand why we didn't wait.

Indeed, it was a bad chess move so to speak. Lost opportunity for no reason, just so we could have Jormakka! One of our NHL superstars or Jormakka, who to pick? Besides he was just sitting those Jukurit guys out all the time. He let each of them play once and after that one could almost sense that he was regretting some of his selections. He did trust his intuition but it failed this time.

Jalonen deserves a statue for being possibly the best Finnish ice hockey tournament coach that there ever will be and one of the best national team head coaches globally ever, but it was time for a change and I'm looking forward on how Pennanen will do. I'd actually be unhappy right now if Jalonen continued next season, although it would've been nice seeing Jalonen coach our best players one more time in that 4 team tournament.

 

[FiLe]

Like this?

One thing to note: Since it's a 23-man roster (20 skaters + 3 goalies), it'll likely feature 13F+7D.

I may not have drawn up the same lines, but, pretty much like that, yeah. My list consists of the same goalies, then a toss-up between Välimäki and Risto for the final D spot, and Tolvanen over Kakko on offense.

 

[mattihp]

One thing to note: Since it's a 23-man roster (20 skaters + 3 goalies), it'll likely feature 13F+7D.

I may not have drawn up the same lines, but, pretty much like that, yeah. My list consists of the same goalies, then a toss-up between Välimäki and Risto for the final D spot, and Tolvanen over Kakko on offense.

I don't think Ristolainen will play for Finland.

I would have Tolvanen above Lehkonen too. I wouldn't count on Laine either, even if I hope he recovers.

 

[FinPanda]

One thing to note: Since it's a 23-man roster (20 skaters + 3 goalies), it'll likely feature 13F+7D.

I may not have drawn up the same lines, but, pretty much like that, yeah. My list consists of the same goalies, then a toss-up between Välimäki and Risto for the final D spot, and Tolvanen over Kakko on offense.

Yeah I didn't think about it much, just put up an lineup for our best NHL players. It wasn't final roster, I'd need to do some actual thinking to create the best lines.

I don't think Ristolainen will play for Finland.

I would have Tolvanen above Lehkonen too. I wouldn't count on Laine either, even if I hope he recovers.

I picked Laine because I'm hopeful but it is not certain. I'd have Lehkonen on the team. Maybe swap Kakko for Tolvanen though.

 

[FiLe]

Yeah I didn't think about it much, just put up an lineup for our best NHL players.

Which is exactly the point - you don't really have to think that much about it.


Here's what I've got (roster only, no mock lineup yet) :

Saros
---
Luukkonen
Lankinen
(Husso, Kähkönen, Annunen)

Heiskanen
Lindell
Mikkola
Määttä
---
Jokiharju
Hakanpää
Välimäki
(Ristolainen, Vaakanainen)

Barkov
Aho
Hintz
Lundell
Rantanen
Lehkonen
Teräväinen
Granlund
Laine
---
Tolvanen
Luostarinen
Maccelli
Haula
(Kapanen, Armia, Kakko, Kotkaniemi, Kiviranta)

The ones that are above the line I consider locks if healthy. (And I emphasize, "if healthy", which is why I have Laine as a lock.) Those below the line are the rest of my picks, while the ones inside the brackets may end up replacing some of the non-locks.

 

[mattihp]

I picked Laine because I'm hopeful but it is not certain. I'd have Lehkonen on the team. Maybe swap Kakko to Tolvanen though.

Lehkonen is good, but i firmly believe Kakko is an important piece of Finland's future.

 

[FinPanda]

Congrats to the Czechs and Czechia fans. I'm hoping that Canada makes it to the final, because you have to beat the final boss that features in that final each year or else it wouldn't be the same. I'm usually rooting for the underdog, which would be SUI, but a better final would be CAN vs CZE. I think CZE would beat SUI at this point, regardless of that prelim stage loss result, so let's have a more interesting match as the final. SUI is a very good team this year and I hope that they get the bronze.

Hihglights are up for others like me who missed most of the match:

Wrong thread?

 

[Mestaruus]

Wrong thread?

Yes, fixed lol.

Lehkonen is good, but i firmly believe Kakko is an important piece of Finland's future.

Captain Ristolainen, assistant captains Lehkonen and hmm who else. Saros gets the A. You probably get my logic here .

It feels so wrong that they will represent team Finland, but we probably have to take them.

 

[FiLe]

Lehkonen is good, but i firmly believe Kakko is an important piece of Finland's future.

Right now, Kakko needs to pick things up if he wishes to be a shoo-in for our future best-on-best squads. Of course, he has decent odds of making it even the way he is now, but in his present form he's not a lock.

Whereas Lehkonen will walk into the team next February, and the same likely applies to the olympics as well.

 

[Mestaruus]

Right now, Kakko needs to pick things up if he wishes to be a shoo-in for our future best-on-best squads. Of course, even the way he is now he has decent odds of making it, but in his present form he's not a lock.

Whereas Lehkonen will walk into the team next February, and the same likely applies to the olympics as well.

Lehkonen nowadays is a star player. If someone says otherwise, it's just wrong. He's the 3rd most important forward of Colorado Avalanche after fricking Moose & Nate Mäkinen. At the same time I don't like him for refusing to represent team Finland in WHC tournaments, but it is what it is...

 

[FiLe]

At the same time I don't like him for refusing to represent team Finland in WHC tournaments, but it is what it is...

When exactly has Lehkonen declined when either not without a contract or injured?

 

[Mestaruus]

When exactly has Lehkonen declined when either not without a contract or injured?

It feels like he always finds some BS reason. He's let some oppurtunities pass for sure. I don't believe that there has genuinely been a real reason behind it every time. Remember that he was playing in that rubbish Montreal Canadiens team for a long time. I'm telling you, daddy Ismo is telling him not to risk his career in a 'worthless' WHC tournament. Regardless of how into NT hockey Ismo Lehkonen seems to be on TV, he's much more about NHL than NT tournaments and especially when it comes to his son. I of course don't have facts and that's just my feeling about it.

 

[FinPanda]

It feels like he always finds some BS reason. He's let some oppurtunities pass for sure. I don't believe that there has genuinely been a real reason behind it every time. Remember that he was playing in that rubbish Montreal Canadiens team for a long time. I'm telling you, daddy Ismo is telling him not to risk his career in 'worthless' WHC. Regardless of how into NT hockey Ismo Lehkonen seems to be on TV, he's much more about NHL than NT tournaments and especially when it comes to his son. I I I of course don't have facts and that's just my feeling about it.

Last year he was injured for sure