WC: Finland 2024 roster talk

[SantosHalper]

Fail with your pic upload

Dang it, let's try it again. This should work better.
Lasse Kukkonen psyykkaa itseään pukukopissa uskomattomalla tavalla

 

[SantosHalper]

Kiitos Jukka

 

[king89]

Wow so close. Boys played their best game when it mattered the most but sadly it ended in defeat. Kiitos Jalonen for all the happy moments you brought us and for making us believe that we can defeat any team no matter the odds.

 

[FinPanda]

I'm so proud of our effort in this game. We fell "saappaat jalassa". Thank you Jukka. He gave us so many memories no one can ever take from us. It was was awful tournament from us and we almost made it to semis. I'm proud and so sad at the same time.

 

[Sanf]

It was good battle. The first 35 minutes we barely could make anything organized on offensive zone. The defence was mostly well organized. Larmi probably should have got the first one, but he had few big saves before that. It is hard to say we somehow would have deserved to win it.

But it was respectable way to go. I´m way less frustrated now than after few games group stage.

 

[ORRFForever]

You guys were great. If your dumb ass Captain hadn't taken the cowards way out, you might be in the semis.

Congrats on a terrific Quarters.

 

[Jukurit]

I think Rasmus Rissanen played a really good tournament for a first timer. Solid defensive defenseman. Finland's best d-man IMO. I expect we'll see him in a lot of future tournaments.

 

[Mestaruus]

Dang it, let's try it again. This should work better.
Lasse Kukkonen psyykkaa itseään pukukopissa uskomattomalla tavalla

Oh yes, I remember that one.

 

[Mestaruus]

You guys were great. If your dumb ass Captain hadn't taken the cowards way out, you might be in the semis.

Congrats on a terrific Quarters.

Granlund is not a dummy though. That's what happens when the teammates don't react on dirty looking plays. Compare him to other players in our WHC roster. Compared to the other players he's basically our McDavid, a star caliber player. Imagine if someone hit McDavid against the boards like that. Would the teammates react or would McDavid possibly have to go fight them himself? Nah, the entire Canadian or Oilers team would start fighting with the other team. For that reason his emotions took over and he had to go fight himself and then he did something he regretted 1 sec later. It's crazy that the Finnish players on the ice didn't react to that.

I think Rasmus Rissanen played a really good tournament for a first timer. Solid defensive defenseman. Finland's best d-man IMO. I expect we'll see him in a lot of future tournaments.

True. He could've been given one of the top-3 best Finnish player awards. Now they gave it to these 3:

Kapanen
Innala
Määttä

Actually why even award two forwards when that was the department that we were lacking in. Defenders were the better part of the team. Primarily puck moving D's weren't that amazing, but these well rounded defenders like Määttä and Rissanen could deserve some recognition.

Okay Määttä is a good choice. I didn't really notice mistakes from him during the tournament. I loved to see him as the captain during the last game. I would've selected:

Puljujärvi
Määttä
Rissanen - Possibly. Granlund would've been it without his cross check to Glasser's face.

Kapanen scored a hat trick against GBR and that's pretty much all he did. He scored 6 goals total and none of them against top countries. He was rather invisible any time we played against a top country. Overhyped player, who wasn't ready for this level yet. I'm sure that in the future he'll be good though.

Can't give one of the awards to Larmi either based on just 1 game against a top country.

Innala was a strange selection. He was selected to the team to score points and he scored one important goal against SUI and other than that he didn't do much. Innala was the best player after Larmi in the Sweden game, but I believe that the last game usually doesn't affect these selections, because they are decided pre-emptively

 

[FiLe]

I think Rasmus Rissanen played a really good tournament for a first timer. Solid defensive defenseman. Finland's best d-man IMO. I expect we'll see him in a lot of future tournaments.

Probably not all that many, considering that he turns 33 this year. But he might have 2-3 good ones left in him.

Innala was a strange selection. He was selected to the team to score points and he scored one important goal against SUI and other than that he didn't do much. Innala was the best player after Larmi in the Sweden game, but I believe that the last game usually doesn't affect these selections, because they are decided pre-emptively

One thing worth pointing out is that unlike the tournament BPs and the all-star unit, these selections are not actually made by the tournament directorate or any other 3rd party, but the team's own management. So they may not always use the most obvious metrics. Apart from on-ice performances, they may also put weight on the player's conduct behind the scenes.

But since we never get to see that complete picture, choices like Innala do indeed come off as peculiar.

 

[bar1]

I'll copy what I wrote to the other thread since it applies to this even more. Some small adds to that.

I think all still accounts as poor roster choices.


**
So... This was pretty much the best this team Finland could do on the ice. I would say this goes fully on the coaching and mostly for selecting these players to the squad. Only possibility was to turtle in this game just to have a chance. In the end Jalonen did what he could do against Sweden but the choices for players was WEAK and it is not about our NHL or top european guys who did not show up. Young talents are great but they need more support.

Let me explain:

* Many young guys who just did not seem to know anything about defending at this level. Puistola, Helenius, Kapanen etc. were just cones on the ice or even worse, rushed themselves out by themselves. Though Helenius with the nice stick lift which comically then ended up as a penalty.
* Many guys that excel in Liiga-level with their energy but really do not have the necessary tactical skills needed in international ice against the top competition. Hyry, Jääskä and I also got to say Puustinen even he plays in the NHL.
* Säteri was great in the first game, but so many softies in rest of the games to only have Larmi play this tough game. Larmi on goal against Switzerland at least could have made a difference and a confidence boost.
* Lehtonen was a disaster as a defensive puck holder. Nothing to add there. Kaski was ok against Sweden but through the tournament had same issues.
* Pulju still skating around the ice but also always outside the game. Works against weaker countries but oh man, nothing to show in tougher games.
* Fourth line was the only one doing their job with Björninen, Mäenalanen and Pakarinen grinding.
* Innala was actually quite good but lacked support. Määttä was ok.
* All defence except Määttä lost almost every single puck battle. So defensively soft guys. Would need a actually good defender to every pair.

So there it is, only option was to turtle and grind. Although the showed in last minutes they can also play a bit.

I'm ok with the result with this team. Showed up in the last game.

Still... It's the fault of Jalonen that we had this physically and tactically weak team. Nothing to take away from his accomplishments.

 

[bar1]

Innala was a strange selection. He was selected to the team to score points and he scored one important goal against SUI and other than that he didn't do much. Innala was the best player after Larmi in the Sweden game, but I believe that the last game usually doesn't affect these selections, because they are decided pre-emptively

I saw Innala playing quite well actually. Winning battles even he is not big. The lines he was in did not give him any support or were anywhere near his thinking. Let's take away all the weak teams and just focus on the tougher games, Innalla was only on his line to battle and hold his ground.

So, for me Innala had his spot in the roster. I would change half of the rest tho.

 

[FiLe]

In the end Jalonen did what he could do against Sweden but the choices for players was WEAK and it is not about our NHL or top european guys who did not show up.

Now, I'm not going to argue with your assessment of the guys who did show up, but statements like these have little merit if they're not accompanied by some examples of who these supposedly better selections were. It's one thing if the coach makes controversial cuts, but there's no way to blame him if the pool he has to pick from consists of nothing but bad options and worse options.

 

[bar1]

Now, I'm not going to argue with your assessment of the guys who did show up, but statements like these have little merit if they're not accompanied by some examples of who these supposedly better selections were. It's one thing if the coach makes controversial cuts, but there's no way to blame him if the pool he has to pick from consists of nothing but bad options and worse options.

I'm not saying he chose bad players, I'm saying he chose many of wrong player type.
Puistola, Helenius, Kapanen, Hyry, Jääskä, Puustinen for example have not yet developed as all round players that is needed for this type of challenge. Some of them could have been chosen, but not all of them. They fought but did not have the experience to play better when the challenge gets tougher.

There would have been players like Borgström, Salomäki, Lammikko to support such players. Players who have seen more tough conditions and proven. At least they played in EHT some point.

 

[FiLe]

There would have been players like Borgström, Salomäki, Lammikko to support such players. Players who have seen more tough conditions and proven. At least they played in EHT some point.

And how do you know they were nixed an invite instead of not being available to begin with? Not to mention that this squad did feature a fair number of players who do fit the description, such as Björninen, Mäenalanen, Pakarinen and Oksanen.

What this squad needed was more proven scoring types, not more grinders. Unfortunately, the options available for those roles were very, very slim this year.

 

[bar1]

And how do you know they were nixed an invite instead of not being available to begin with? Not to mention that this squad did feature a fair number of players who do fit the description, such as Björninen, Mäenalanen, Pakarinen and Oksanen.

What this squad needed was more proven scoring types, not more grinders. Unfortunately, the options available for those roles were very, very slim this year.

Of course I do not know that. Those were just some guys that came into my mind from EHT.

Björninen, Mäenalanen ja Pakarinen played in a single line and not spread out to support the less experienced guys. I wouldn't say those players I mentioned fit into only grinding in this level.

Tho there are quite a few other guys that did not get called but excelled in scoring in, lets say like Liiga. Turunen, Palve, Kuokkanen etc. and I don't know if Saarela, Suomela, Rajala have been asked. So a lot of guys that have been proven to be able to score goals.

Many of have been seen in EHT which usually means they are available.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Kommentti: Leijonien MM-fiasko on jäävuoren huippu – nyt on aika herätä

Pöhötautiin sairastunut Jääkiekkoliitto on kellunut harhaluulossa ja unohtanut, että Suomi-kiekko on paljon muutakin kuin Leijonat, kirjoittaa jääkiekkotoimittaja Sami Hoffrén.

www.is.fi

Time to change something.
Finnish hockey needs new emergency meeting like 2009.

 

[FiLe]

Björninen, Mäenalanen ja Pakarinen played in a single line and not spread out to support the less experienced guys. I wouldn't say those players I mentioned fit into only grinding in this level.

Mäenalanen and Björninen were strictly together, but Pakarinen played also next to Granlund and Hyry. And Oksanen (whom you conveniently forgot to mention) spent most of his time on ice next to Kapanen.

Tho there are quite a few other guys that did not get called but excelled in scoring in, lets say like Liiga. Turunen, Palve, Kuokkanen etc. and I don't know if Saarela, Suomela, Rajala have been asked. So a lot of guys that have been proven to be able to score goals.

Kuokkanen we can debate, as he was on camp and Jalonen cut him after a subpar performance - but perhaps he should have been given more rope, since he can be pretty good when he's at the top of his game. Turunen and Palve are in no way higher profile than Innala (who did excel at scoring in the SHL) and Puustinen. So I can easily imagine an alternate reality where Jalonen took Turunen and Palve, and we would be sitting here saying that Innala and Puustinen should have featured instead of those scrubs.

Rajala probably belonged to that same seasoned cohort as Manninen and Hartikainen, who needed a time out (no EHT this year either). Aleksi Saarela (I assume you mean him, not Antti), maybe. Now, Suomela was someone I was kind of missing myself. He might have the been a good piece to complement Granlund. But since he was good in last year's tournament, was good on EHT this year, and was good in the Swiss league playoffs, I have a hard time imagining that Jalonen just nixed him.

The bottom line here is that I don't see the selections Jalonen made all that controversial, because I don't see where we could have gotten any better. Most of the players he could have featured but didn't had no greater merits than the ones he selected - at least on the European side. One thing we could debate is if he overlooked the AHL (as did some of his predecessors). It would be interesting to see a coach willing to take some leaps of faith with some youngsters tearing up the bus league, even if it means handing them a ticket or two over middling Euros who loyally trudge through the camp. Not that we should assume it's some kind of instant success recipe either.

 

[mattihp]

I think Rasmus Rissanen played a really good tournament for a first timer. Solid defensive defenseman. Finland's best d-man IMO. I expect we'll see him in a lot of future tournaments.

I think the only way we see him again is if we have someone who is extremely offensive minded and plays no defense at all to counter his no offense at all.

 

[mattihp]

Kapanen could have been that scoring winger we lacked. Not at all ready to play center here.

 

[Mestaruus]

One thing worth pointing out is that unlike the tournament BPs and the all-star unit, these selections are not actually made by the tournament directorate or any other 3rd party, but the team's own management. So they may not always use the most obvious metrics. Apart from on-ice performances, they may also put weight on the player's conduct behind the scenes.

But since we never get to see that complete picture, choices like Innala do indeed come off as peculiar.

Behind the scenes would mean Jormakka would get some recognition, as he is the true sauna buddy of coaches, isn't he. Just kidding. Jormakka was a positive surprise vs expectations for me, but he isn't a WHC level player. Hopefully we'll get better rosters in the future.

 

[Mestaruus]

I saw Innala playing quite well actually. Winning battles even he is not big. The lines he was in did not give him any support or were anywhere near his thinking. Let's take away all the weak teams and just focus on the tougher games, Innalla was only on his line to battle and hold his ground.

So, for me Innala had his spot in the roster. I would change half of the rest tho.

I mean do we blame Granlund then or do we blame anyone? There's certainly something wrong if all the lines Innala was in didn't produce. For the most part he was with Granlund and Granlund wasn't that bad either in Innala's line. Maybe they aren't a fit. Granlund would've been a top-3 player of our team this tournament if he didn't cross check Glasser.

 

[Mestaruus]

There would have been players like Borgström, Salomäki, Lammikko to support such players. Players who have seen more tough conditions and proven. At least they played in EHT some point.

I'll point out Lammikko. There's no way they would've denied inviting him to this team. He's a Jalonen familiar and actually a good player. So he declined the invitation as did so many others.

 

[Mestaruus]

Rajala probably belonged to that same seasoned cohort as Manninen and Hartikainen, who needed a time out (no EHT this year either). Aleksi Saarela (I assume you mean him, not Antti), maybe. Now, Suomela was someone I was kind of missing myself. He might have the been a good piece to complement Granlund. But since he was good in last year's tournament, was good on EHT this year, and was good in the Swiss league playoffs, I have a hard time imagining that Jalonen just nixed him.

Any idea BTW if Harri Pesonen has quit his NT career?

 

[Sanf]

So what would you think? Did KHL elevate and help our players to be more ready for this kind of level of hockey?

Note I´m not claiming it helping Finnish hockey as whole. This is just (almost) tip of the iceberg. But to give stronger competition to be ready in this level?