WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
OK, then they will bash you for liking Kotkaniemi's "potential". Everyone goes home and realizes they got an evaluation wrong.
Prospect Info: Filip Mesar
- Thread starter Adam Michaels
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OK, then they will bash you for liking Kotkaniemi's "potential". Everyone goes home and realizes they got an evaluation wrong.
The issue with Mesar is mainly between his ears as his effort is extremely inconsistent and he lives on the perimeter which is tough for a player who does not score from distance and doesn't have the size or reach to protect the puck while trying to find passing lanes.
I would say that asserting that he was arguably the best skater in the 2022 draft is a stretch with Cooley, Kimmell, Savoie as other obvious candidates for this title without even having to really think about, and I think Beck is right there as well. I do get what you are saying as he is a very good skater but he is not necessarily an elite skater that would challenge to be the best skater in most leagues. I would certainly label him as one of the better skaters in that draft but it is purely hyperbolic to suggest that he may be the best as he would be in such a large swath of prospects who technically could have the same said about themselves as well.
He has been a disappointment as he has not impressed in any of his post draft seasons as does not appear to have the drive to do what he needs to do to become a legitimate NHL asset. I could very well be wrong as we are talking about a young man who by nature could turn his whole outlook on life around on a dime but from what he has shown so far, he is trending towards busting and a career in Europe.
I defended him early in his career as a Hab prospect but he seemingly has not improved much at all and looks no more like a pro today than he did when he first came to the OHL. He still has the same flaws and concerns and has not built up any facet of his game. I suspect he just isn't putting in the work in the off season to get better and that is a fatal flaw that is very common among good prospects who bust.
Lets just say the KK draft mistake is way bigger than the Mesar draft mistake lmfao.
(It’s not a hit directed at the poster but at Habs managment)
The KK miss was enormous.....although we likely would not have Demidov if we chose Tkachuk or Hughes. That being said, the 2018 draft has all sorts of top picks that busted and KK is 9th in scoring from that draft so maybe not as bad as it looks especially if they were pondering Zadina instead.
Zadina was the popular choice on this board as Tkachuk got all sorts of silly hate because of his lack of goals and Hughes due to his size.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
And i chose an example of someone I also got wrong, because I'm not trying to do a pissing match.
Scouts get players wrong. I'm sure they've already discussed things about their process leading to them taking him over other guys in a similar tier.
It's just funny to nitpick it when the argument is they took the player 40 spots later and are on video record projecting him being available there.
DAChampion
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- May 28, 2011
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I think that Kotkaniemi might have been better with one year in Liiga and one year in the AHL.
The reason that he started in the NHL was the most ridiculous possible reason: that the Habs needed a center. It doesn't get dumber and more short sighted than that. And he actually did well at first ! Until the coaches started punishing him to play Nate Thompson, which yielded no benefit.
What I did see in 12 or so games of watching him in the AHL until he got the spleen injury is that his confidence was skyrocketing, he was getting more aggressive, shooting more, doing more for checking, etc while centering Charles Hudson and Jake Evans. That's where learning happens, when one is confident, challenged but not dying, and one has the responsibility of being the man, maximum neural conditions get made in those circumstances. And he improved and peaked in those COVID playoffs against Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.
But he should have spent two years in a learning phase prior to making the NHL.
DAChampion
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Personally I know that if I was a scout I'd bat 1.000.
I'm just really good at judging people. I've never gone on a date with a woman with whom I did not turn out to be a great match, and I've never hired anybody for a job who didn't work out. It's easy I say.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
A man who was taught everything he knows from Estimated Prophet.
As you may know, I generally do not subscribe to these notions of ruining a player. They are for the most part are going to be what they are going to be and KK just isn't a high skill player with clumsy skating. Development has almost always been more about expediting a players ascension to their best version and that generally would mean that they are more useful while on cheaper contracts. Development has rarel ruined a player or made them into a star but definitely expedited the journey in many cases.
I believe that development is starting to take a turn towards making a tangible difference in a players ceiling as there is a much better understanding on how to develop skills and more importantly IQ.
DAChampion
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WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
Kobe Armstrong
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The downside to missing out on Hutson is way more significant than the difference between Mesar vs 64th overall
Not a risk I would take but who cares it worked out
Not a risk I would take but who cares it worked out
DAChampion
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Yours is the mainstream view on this, and you have more athletic experience.
I don't agree for a variety of reasons, though I'm most annoyed by the fact that it seems impossible to prove either way, so perhaps people will argue about it indefinitely.
I think an example of a player that is a supportive argument of your view is Patrick Laine. He's elite because... He's genetically superior. I think he scored 45 NHL goals in his D+1. "Development" in his case arguably just means avoiding injury and not getting fat.
But a counterexample would be Nick Suzuki. He's a vastly, vastly better today than he was in his D+1, and that trajectory has actually been gradual, where he's gotten better virtually every year. What I see in his case, is that he's very smart, and the more he's played the more neural connections he's made in his brain. He also needed to avoid injury and not get fat, but in addition he needed lots and lots of competitive playing time, which he got to play from a position of confidence and visualizing victory rather than fear and visualizing benching.
I spoke about this with my therapist in a different context last week. In all fields of human activity, an extended period of obsession is a precursor for genuine excellence.
Frankenheimer
Sir, this is an Arber
It is also just a fact that even while doing nothing we continue to develop physically and mentally until our mid twenties. I recall making crazy jumps in improvement during 18-24 without really playing that much. Remember reading plays easier, positioning, having better control of my thoughts and what i wanted to do, etc. I just became better as each year went by without dedicating myself too much. And then like a wave that crested, I began to recede and go in the other direction.
Ever since then, I've generally assumed there is simply a continuation of biological development that helps almost any athlete.
Not to say development is inconsequential at all, but some development is built into any young draftee and some more than others. And if you're truly generational, development will have little impact, as the attributes that make you generational are not due to development and cannot be forced into a conventional development system. That is why I think MSL is almost the perfect coach. He understands all this at an intuitive and experiential level.
Ever since then, I've generally assumed there is simply a continuation of biological development that helps almost any athlete.
Not to say development is inconsequential at all, but some development is built into any young draftee and some more than others. And if you're truly generational, development will have little impact, as the attributes that make you generational are not due to development and cannot be forced into a conventional development system. That is why I think MSL is almost the perfect coach. He understands all this at an intuitive and experiential level.
Hated this pick since day one. Nothing against the player himself, but I just felt like there were so many better, higher upside players available at that spot, and I still do. Wanted Maveric Lamoureux with that pick. A massive RHD who skates well and has already shown NHL upside. With how much good RHD are sought after, damn…
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
LaP
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The players drafted behind him all have not developped yet though. Only Hutson has. The most points by a player drafted behind him not named Hutson is 26. Couple of guys have looked better in the AHL definitely but none of them have proven anything at the NHL level yet.
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I think with the 8-10 mins of TOI he's been getting this season, he's done pretty well.
Weren’t you the guy calling him generational before? Sorry, I don’t foresee a rational discussion to be had here.
When i watch this player I see glimpses of high skill sets but for the most part he has been a huge disappointment. This one ain't panning out. Can't win them all.
There is no way to know yet. He is only 21 and missed a lot of time. He is not generational so he probably will need time to develop. If he keeps getting injured like Dach then he won't pan out.
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