Fighting has to go

[Heldig]

You can usually tell who hasn't actually played hockey before. Sure I was always one of the most sportsmanlike players on the ice and I never had an on ice fight and basically only played where fighting would get you kicked out of the game. But in the heat of the game at the right moment, in the right situation, fighting is required. Should there be staged fighting? No. Should prospects have to feel like they need to fight to get noticed in the preseason? No. If someone takes liberties with McJeebus, should Kassian be aloud to jump in and teach the opposing player some respect? Oh hell yes. The problem is that since Bettman took over the league, he has implemented rules that encourage staged fights and discourages players from defending their teammates. Should we ever get back to the stick swinging, bench clearing brawls of the 70's? Of course not, but if the rules and the expectations change to a more defensive mindset, there would be less fighting in general, but more meaningful and necessary fights. But that's just my opinion.

Not just your opinion. Agree with everything you said (only difference, I was a rough and tumble player that protected my team mates).

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

go watch women's hockey then

 

[kingpest19]

I'm not sure how much you saw of probert if you think all he did was fight, yet guys like reaves and kassian do much more? really?

I don't think he saw much of Probert at all. Kassian and Reaves don't even come close to Probert in overall play

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

"Fighting is part of the game" is such a stupid cop out.

No, it is not. Fighting is part of the stupid North American hockey culture, yes. But not inherently part of the game. Best game I have ever seen was the womens gold medal game at Sochi... and it had no fighting nor big hits. It was entertaining and thrilling. VERY fun to watch.

Fighting might be entertaining to many people, but it is also one of the reasons why hockey is not taken seriously in the US. It is a side show and too many people market the sport around that side show. The Slapshot culture has to go.

The other stupid justification for fighting is that it prevents cheap shots. It does not. It is merely an eye for an eye response. If you REALLY want to stop cheap shots, you enforce the rules the way they are written. You suspend guys HEAVILY for acting like clowns. They do not because they think that shit sells. It does, to a certain audience. It does limit the growth of the sport and, to me, the way they use violence to market the sport is cheer stupidity. It will work with a certain crowd, but it limits your growth. I'd be fine with it if the NHL was conscious of this and were fine being a niche product... but every other business decision they take show that they are not.

People defending fighting do it because they like it, the rest is window dressing.

You don't like fighting so you list your reasons. Fine. You have no evidence fighting is why hockey struggles to keep up with the NBA or soccer. Hint - it has absolutely nothing to do with fighting.

Basketball and soccer are infinitely cheaper and more accessible for children to play, nothing more.

The day the anti hitting, anti emotion group of fans win is the day the sport dies as a true professional sport and utterly loses in the ratings race against the other major sports. The one thing hockey has to draw fans is the combination of speed, violence, and skill. Speed and skill is hardly enough to keep the various leagues profitable.

 

[NMacrules]

With most of the sports-people worrying about the increasing amount of head injuries in the game it's quite baffling that bare-knuckle fighting on ice in a ball game is still supported by the conservative hockey fan base. It's just stupid macho shit and it does not have a place in modern hockey. Taking them out of the game reduces head-injuries without changing the game in any meaningful way. Just watched the Oilers-game and what a pointless and dangerous looking injury Kassian suffered as a result of that fight.



And you can do it step-by-step. In Finland for a long time there's an automatic 1 game suspension if you fight and that only makes fight very rare. Make it 3 games and fighting virtually stops.

And yeah yeah, world's gone soft and all that but this is hockey with enough toughness and injuries even as it is. I used to think that fights were okay (never was a fan of that aspect of the game TBH) but with all the evidence about the brain damages and even lost lives of NHL-fighters I've come to think otherwise. Would it really be that bad if fighting was banned?

You have to go. Its p23456like you that have ruined the sport.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

With most of the sports-people worrying about the increasing amount of head injuries in the game it's quite baffling that bare-knuckle fighting on ice in a ball game is still supported by the conservative hockey fan base. It's just stupid macho shit and it does not have a place in modern hockey. Taking them out of the game reduces head-injuries without changing the game in any meaningful way. Just watched the Oilers-game and what a pointless and dangerous looking injury Kassian suffered as a result of that fight.



And you can do it step-by-step. In Finland for a long time there's an automatic 1 game suspension if you fight and that only makes fight very rare. Make it 3 games and fighting virtually stops.

And yeah yeah, world's gone soft and all that but this is hockey with enough toughness and injuries even as it is. I used to think that fights were okay (never was a fan of that aspect of the game TBH) but with all the evidence about the brain damages and even lost lives of NHL-fighters I've come to think otherwise. Would it really be that bad if fighting was banned?

I'm guessing you're mostly gonna get torched for this and while I'm not ready to get rid of fighting in the game, I think your points are solid.

Steve Yzerman even said as much a few years back. He didn't go so far as to say that fighting should go, but made the point that if the league is looking to reduce head injuries, it seems like guys punching each other in the head and often falling helmetless to the ice is worth looking at. Fighting is technically illegal and not a hockey play.

I grew up watching Probert and Kocur and loving it but growing older and seeing the toll it takes on these guys, it's harder and harder to support. But it also hard to imagine the game without it. Fighting is not a deterrent to cheap shots, but as a fan it satisfies some base need for vengeance.

 

[EazyE1]

Should also probably stop Nascar from driving over the speed limit, and ban bulls from bullfighting.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

As unfortunate as the outcome was, I don’t think it will be banned. Too many casual fans enjoy them.

And the players, and season ticket holders.

I'd bet a heft sum that the true majority of head injuries are from hitting, not the weak punches thrown in the majority of fights. The anti emotion crowd does too, but fighting is the easier first target before they start the anti hitting movement next.

 

[Danrs112]

I don’t really care either way, but I generally consider fights to be an annoying interruption to the actual game when they happen.

This is mostly how I feel. Couple guys flailing/clutching until they slip and fall down.

I get that it can motivate the team and crowd and is a bit different experience when you're in the stadium watching for that reason.

On TV it's usually incredibly lame and just delays the actual game.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

I like the 99,9% of the sport where there's no fighting involved. I'll make sure to watch some basketball, tho and I recommend boxing or UFC for you!

I enjoy both thanks
Fighting is part of the game

 

[lucaseider]

You don't like fighting so you list your reasons. Fine. You have no evidence fighting is why hockey struggles to keep up with the NBA or soccer. Hint - it has absolutely nothing to do with fighting.

Basketball and soccer are infinitely cheaper and more accessible for children to play, nothing more.

The day the anti hitting, anti emotion group of fans win is the day the sport dies as a true professional sport and utterly loses in the ratings race against the other major sports. The one thing hockey has to draw fans is the combination of speed, violence, and skill. Speed and skill is hardly enough to keep the various leagues profitable.

exactly this. I still say the nhl would be up with other sports if the cost of equipment wasnt so expensive, especially for children growing bigger and needing new gear almost every year.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

If you want to watch fights, there are sports that are nothing but fights. Go watch that.

If fighting disappeared from hockey tomorrow it'd take months for me to notice. It's never been in the top ~100 of things I enjoy about hockey, it's just a part of it that I roll my eyes at the majority of the time anymore. There are good fights, but they're dwarfed by nonsensical codes demanding retribution for a clean hit. Despite my disinterest in fighting I always found it a 'part' of hockey, but once people started dying because of it...yeah, no, get rid of this shit.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

You don't like fighting so you list your reasons. Fine. You have no evidence fighting is why hockey struggles to keep up with the NBA or soccer. Hint - it has absolutely nothing to do with fighting.

Basketball and soccer are infinitely cheaper and more accessible for children to play, nothing more.

The day the anti hitting, anti emotion group of fans win is the day the sport dies as a true professional sport and utterly loses in the ratings race against the other major sports. The one thing hockey has to draw fans is the combination of speed, violence, and skill. Speed and skill is hardly enough to keep the various leagues profitable.

You accuse me of not backing up my claims that it hurts the popularity of the sport with unsubstantiated claims that removing violence would kill the sport. I mean... we are going to argue in circles here

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I don't think actual fighting needs to go, I could happily get rid of the staged fight right as the whistle blows though. I'd rather they focused on obstruction penalties than fighting.

 

[Sheppy]

I'm guessing you're mostly gonna get torched for this and while I'm not ready to get rid of fighting in the game, I think your points are solid.

Steve Yzerman even said as much a few years back. He didn't go so far as to say that fighting should go, but made the point that if the league is looking to reduce head injuries, it seems like guys punching each other in the head and often falling helmetless to the ice is worth looking at. Fighting is technically illegal and not a hockey play.

I grew up watching Probert and Kocur and loving it but growing older and seeing the toll it takes on these guys, it's harder and harder to support. But it also hard to imagine the game without it. Fighting is not a deterrent to cheap shots, but as a fan it satisfies some base need for vengeance.

Yeah, and it was a clown thing for him to say. I wonder if he said that when he had those two guys protecting him night in and night out.

 

[urho]

You have to go. Its p23456like you that have ruined the sport.

I'm really sorry about that

 

[MartyOwns]

Should also probably stop Nascar from driving over the speed limit, and ban bulls from bullfighting.

yes lol, fighting is as integral to hockey as speed is to nascar and bulls are to bullfighting. gold star

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

This is mostly how I feel. Couple guys flailing/clutching until they slip and fall down.

I get that it can motivate the team and crowd and is a bit different experience when you're in the stadium watching for that reason.

On TV it's usually incredibly lame and just delays the actual game.

Staged fighting has nearly completely gone from the sport which is a very good thing. Those added little value... the staged fight these days is rare however. See Foligno vs Perry - that was cringeworthy.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

The idea that fighting "protects" anyone is just farcical, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind if it was more harshly punished but I wouldn't want to see it completely banned. Fights serve some general purpose, but it's definitely one of the things that keeps hockey a fringe sport. For better or worse.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Yeah, and it was a clown thing for him to say. I wonder if he said that when he had those two guys protecting him night in and night out.

See, that's a truism that is... not true.

Goons did not protect him from shit. Ryan Reaves does not protect anybody from anything.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Why do people think fighting in hockey is for them? Like its only a gladiator bout for your entertainment....maybe staged fights are...but everybody agrees that those suck. Fighting is for the players to step up for their teamates and get some momentum going their way or to retaliate for a cheap shot. All these entitled people thinking that NHL fights are only there for your entertainment make me laugh

 

[Sheppy]

See, that's a truism that is... not true.

Goons did not protect him from shit. Ryan Reaves does not protect anybody from anything.

No? You don't think that players went into the Joe Louis Arena and thought a little differently with arguably the toughest guy to ever lace them up over there? Players and other teams tough guys legitimately said these things.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeah, and it was a clown thing for him to say. I wonder if he said that when he had those two guys protecting him night in and night out.

It's interesting how riled up people get about this. The thread is littered with logical fallacies and personal attacks (I'm not saying you did either of those things).

He didn't say it back then. In the 80s when the game was different. He specifically thanked Probert in his retirement speech. But we know much more about concussions and CTE than we did back then. And know much more about the toll it takes on these players mental and physical health.

And to be clear he wasn't saying fighting should go. It was more of a shoulder shrug "If they're gonna try and protect players brains shouldn't they look at the illegal punching of guys heads?"

 

[Midnight Judges]

If you think hockey needs fighting to remain interesting, maybe you just don't like hockey.

 

[Sheppy]

It's interesting how riled up people get about this. The thread is littered with logical fallacies and personal attacks (I'm not saying you did either of those things).

He didn't say it back then. In the 80s when the game was different. He specifically thanked Probert in his retirement speech. But we know much more about concussions and CTE than we did back then. And know much more about the toll it takes on these players mental and physical health.

And to be clear he wasn't saying fighting should go. It was more of a shoulder shrug "If they're gonna try and protect players brains shouldn't they look at the illegal punching of guys heads?"

Fair, but if you do this, you have to look at hitting as well, no? I'm curious on the data of what shortens careers more. Hits, or fights.