Fighting has to go

[Bizz]

You know what needs to go? These types of threads.

They result in nothing constructive and the league and it's players really don't care about what some blowhards on some unimportant internet forum thinks.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

Ouch ,that fall has got to hurt even more without any hair to soften the blow lol. Poor Kassian

 

[didimentionlarseller]

There more to it than us just enjoying it.
it protects the players everyone pays to watch.
Everyone should watch Ice Guardians on Netflix.
it goes pretty in depth in everything

I haven’t seen this show but yea enforcers work even still - the game has a lot of cheap shot garbage without that deterrent

 

[TheTechNoir]

Finnish league is the nr. 1 sports league in their national market though.

NHL is barely top 10.

A lot to catch!

Excellent parallel, very close to a 1-to-1 ecosystem. Comparing the NHL product to the Finnish product on the other hand would be silly, but to compare to their very similar peer market competition ranking instead.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

"Fighting is part of the game" is such a stupid cop out.

No, it is not. Fighting is part of the stupid North American hockey culture, yes. But not inherently part of the game. Best game I have ever seen was the womens gold medal game at Sochi... and it had no fighting nor big hits. It was entertaining and thrilling. VERY fun to watch.

Fighting might be entertaining to many people, but it is also one of the reasons why hockey is not taken seriously in the US. It is a side show and too many people market the sport around that side show. The Slapshot culture has to go.

The other stupid justification for fighting is that it prevents cheap shots. It does not. It is merely an eye for an eye response. If you REALLY want to stop cheap shots, you enforce the rules the way they are written. You suspend guys HEAVILY for acting like clowns. They do not because they think that shit sells. It does, to a certain audience. It does limit the growth of the sport and, to me, the way they use violence to market the sport is cheer stupidity. It will work with a certain crowd, but it limits your growth. I'd be fine with it if the NHL was conscious of this and were fine being a niche product... but every other business decision they take show that they are not.

People defending fighting do it because they like it, the rest is window dressing.

 

[LeapOnOver]

well, nearly 100% of game attendees don’t understand you. The whole arena in 32 different locations stands up for fights and drops their jaws to big hits. It’s part of the game, which is why the players all do the same.

Neanderthals, lol.

I guess they are just copying all the Neanderthals at boxing matches and MMA matches around the world?!? This guy...

 

[LOFIN]

I don't care either way. Some of the best hockey games I've watched have had some fighting in them, others have not.

 

[LeapOnOver]

"Fighting is part of the game" is such a stupid cop out.

No, it is not. Fighting is part of the stupid North American hockey culture, yes. But not inherently part of the game. Best game I have ever seen was the womens gold medal game at Sochi... and it had no fighting nor big hits. It was entertaining and thrilling. VERY fun to watch.

Fighting might be entertaining to many people, but it is also one of the reasons why hockey is not taken seriously in the US. It is a side show and too many people market the sport around that side show. The Slapshot culture has to go.

The other stupid justification for fighting is that it prevents cheap shots. It does not. It is merely an eye for an eye response. If you REALLY want to stop cheap shots, you enforce the rules the way they are written. You suspend guys HEAVILY for acting like clowns. They do not because they think that shit sells. It does, to a certain audience. It does limit the growth of the sport and, to me, the way they use violence to market the sport is cheer stupidity. It will work with a certain crowd, but it limits your growth. I'd be fine with it if the NHL was conscious of this and were fine being a niche product... but every other business decision they take show that they are not.

People defending fighting do it because they like it, the rest is window dressing.

Really? Who is doing that? They don't even show the fights on the 5 minute recaps on NHL.TV. I have to read about them or watch the whole game. Nobody is marketing them....

 

[LeapOnOver]

Which is because of a weird moral code of taking your helmet off or your opponent taking it off during a fight, players are getting into situations where they are prone to getting seriously hurt and actually remove protection because of the rules of a mini-game inside the sport. It is such a dumb thing that the NHL has to try to steer the players towards a safer way to do this. I actually think there should be an automatic suspension if you get into a fight and remove someones helmet.

Is this an ancient post? Both of these things don't happen anymore and are against the rules...

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Really? Who is doing that? They don't even show the fights on the 5 minute recaps on NHL.TV. I have to read about them or watch the whole game. Nobody is marketing them....

Ever watched a Boston Bruins hype video? Or any hype video? Big hits, and fights to a lesser degree, are a part of all of them.

The violence has been celebrated for years and continues to be, to a lesser degree. American pop culture also associate hockey with the violence pretty much all the time. Football is another sport sold on violence, yet, if you fight, heck, if you throw a punch, you are ejected. In hockey? They call you a "good teammate" and essential to the game.

 

[bert]

No it doesn't. Penalize dirty shit with lengthier suspensions, it'll be much more effective.



Care to elaborate?

Unless you've been there you clearly don't understand.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Ever watched a Boston Bruins hype video? Or any hype video? Big hits, and fights to a lesser degree, are a part of all of them.

The violence has been celebrated for years and continues to be, to a lesser degree. American pop culture also associate hockey with the violence pretty much all the time. Football is another sport sold on violence, yet, if you fight, heck, if you throw a punch, you are ejected.

Big hits yes, fights no. They've weeded that out of promotion stuff a looong time ago. I rarely see any replays of fights nowadays. Have to go to Youtube and find some fan who put it together. They aren't done professionally anymore. Feel like this is all past feelings that don't really exist anymore.

There's just as many fights in baseball as there are in hockey these days.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So do we ban skates because Clint Malarchuk and Richard Zednik got their throat slashed by skates? and Mikyehev got his wrist slashed Do we ban sticks because Marian Hossa nearly ended Bryan Berard's career? Do we ban the entire sport because Jay Boumester and Jiri Fishcer had heart attacks on the bench? Do we ban hitting because Scott Stevens existed?

Shit happens we can't ban something every time it does

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Big hits yes, fights no. They've weeded that out of promotion stuff a looong time ago. I rarely see any replays of fights nowadays. Have to go to Youtube and find some fan who put it together. They aren't done professionally anymore. Feel like this is all past feelings that don't really exist anymore.

There's just as many fights in baseball as there are in hockey these days.

It does exist. Not as much (which is a good thing), but it still exists.

Fighting is archaic. There is a reason why hockey is the only team sport in which it is allowed. Because it is f***ing stupid.

 

[Hanji]

Look it's never going to happen fighting has been part of the game, literally since day 1, ever sense the NHL started and it's going anywhere because fans like it, and players seem to like it.

and before you say "I'm a fan I don't like it." you are you, you are 1 person you are not the majority.

Like me ask you do you like MMA or Boxing?? because if you do You're a hypocrite you can't be OK with fighting in sport and not OK with it in another.

What hypocrisy? Boxing/MMA is skilled fighting. At the highest levels it’s damn near an art.

In comparison, hockey fighting takes no talent whatsoever and is more akin to a bar brawl. Fighting in hockey is lowest-common-denominator entertainment.

 

[Ciao]

So do we ban skates because Clint Malarchuk and Richard Zednik got their throat slashed by skates? and Mikyehev got his wrist slashed Do we ban sticks because Marian Hossa nearly ended Bryan Berard's career? Do we ban the entire sport because Jay Boumester and Jiri Fishcer had heart attacks on the bench? Do we ban hitting because Scott Stevens existed?

Shit happens we can't ban something every time it does

Yeah, this is just an absurd argument.

If you think there's any equivalence between banning skates, sticks or hockey altogether and making the game safer by eliminating fighting, then you've lost the thread here. Maybe it's time to give your head a shake.


I'm not even commenting about eliminating fighting -- I can see both good and bad sides of it -- but your argument just jumps off the page as over the top.

 

[PaulD]

If two players want to fight they'll fight. None of my business really.

Look forward to Reeves thumping Wilson in the Metro this season.

 

[LeapOnOver]

It does exist. Not as much (which is a good thing), but it still exists.

Fighting is archaic. There is a reason why hockey is the only team sport in which it is allowed. Because it is f***ing stupid.

It's not allowed. You are punished for doing it. I don't get the people who say fighting is allowed. It's not allowed just like it isn't in every other sport except, you know, the ones that are centered around fighting.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Yeah, this is just an absurd argument.

If you think there's any equivalence between banning skates, sticks or hockey altogether and making the game safer by eliminating fighting, then you've lost the thread here. Maybe it's time to give your head a shake.

It's just as ridiculous as fighting has to go because Zack Kassian hit his head.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It's not allowed. You are punished for doing it. I don't get the people who say fighting is allowed. It's not allowed just like it isn't in every other sport except, you know, the ones that are centered around fighting.

Semantics. You get a 5 minutes penalty and you are celebrated as a tough guy. Teammates, like pre-programmed robots, will say that it gave you momentum or that you stood up for the team. The culture around fighting in hockey (in North America) is a positive one. Heck, just look at this thread.

In any other sports it gets you, at the minimum, ejected and most likely suspended.

 

[Jacob]

If boxing and MMA is okay I don’t see why fighting in hockey isn’t.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Semantics. You get a 5 minutes penalty and you are celebrated as a tough guy. Teammates, like pre-programmed robots, will say that it gave you momentum or that you stood up for the team. The culture around fighting in hockey (in North America) is a positive one. Heck, just look at this thread.

In any other sports it gets you, at the minimum, ejected and most likely suspended.

It's not semantics, it's logic. Using your logic, slashing is allowed, hooking is allowed, playing with too many players is allowed,...shall I go on? Baseball players usually get fines for fighting, there are rarely suspensions. They'll just get fined and tossed from the game. Football players aren't suspended for fighting unless they take their helmets off and start wielding them as weapons. Suspensions from fighting actually don't happen as much as you pretend they do.

 

[urho]

So do we ban skates because Clint Malarchuk and Richard Zednik got their throat slashed by skates? and Mikyehev got his wrist slashed Do we ban sticks because Marian Hossa nearly ended Bryan Berard's career? Do we ban the entire sport because Jay Boumester and Jiri Fishcer had heart attacks on the bench? Do we ban hitting because Scott Stevens existed?

Shit happens we can't ban something every time it does

That's exactly what's the point of this thread. Ban everything, not just in hockey but everywhere!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#Slopes,_arguments,_and_fallacies

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It's not semantics, it's logic. Using your logic, slashing is allowed, hooking is allowed, playing with too many players is allowed,...shall I go on? Baseball players usually get fines for fighting, there are rarely suspensions. They'll just get fined and tossed from the game. Football players aren't suspended for fighting unless they take their helmets off and start wielding them as weapons. Suspensions from fighting actually don't happen as much as you pretend they do.

Baseball players get suspended for fights all the time. Football players get EJECTED on the spot for fighting. Just like hype videos containing fighting exist and are used frequently. The culture around fighting is VERY different in hockey than it is in other sports. Other sports do not claim it is "part of the game" and do not consider being a good fighter as a skill. And, no, fights do not happen more often in baseball than they do in hockey.

Slashing, hooking and "playing with too many players" is not celebrated. Fighting is. So, yeah, semantics. You are using my (bad) wording to defend fighting, that's all it is.

 

[MXD]

I'm generally against banning fights (with GMC or 1-game suspension), but at this point, it's the arguments and attitude from the pro-fight side, not fights themselves, that are making more and more people join the "ban fights" faction