Fedorov ending.

[JohanFranzenstein]

Had Wayne Gretzky played 2-3 seasons for the Wings, scored 200 points annually, and won the Art Ross, Hart Trophy, and Conn Smythe as part of bringing one or more Cups to Detroit, he could've played two decades for anybody else and I'd still say he has an argument for jersey retirement.

What are your thoughts on the Avalanche retiring Bourques number?

 

[jkutswings]

What are your thoughts on the Avalanche retiring Bourques number?

It's tough to be unbiased with the heavy rivalry years of the Avs. Part of me says he only played 1.25 seasons and part of me acknowledges that he went into the sunset after a championship (and, checking his stats, put up 19 points across the two years and 34 playoff games he had with Colorado).

Considering the circumstances and that the Avs have a different standard for jersey retirement to begin with, I don't think Bourque is out of place for that franchise.

 

[Reality Check]

Fans would like to see his number retired. But it's never going to happen.

Detroit has strict guidelines. Of which they have followed. But the real answer is the holdout in '97 and leaving town once that contract ended.

 

[DamonDRW]

By reading through this thread it seems more than 90% of fans want his number retired.

to me Fedorov was the reason I started following Red Wings. I'm kind of thankful to him as an alternative option was Vancouver with Bure. He basically saved me from years of disappointment

 

[KJoe88]

By reading through this thread it seems more than 90% of fans want his number retired.

to me Fedorov was the reason I started following Red Wings. I'm kind of thankful to him as an alternative option was Vancouver with Bure. He basically saved me from years of disappointment

Dude same

 

[DanielMarois]

I can't believe some think his number shouldn't be retired. This wasn't just a good player, he won 3 Cups, a Hart, and was a monster in the playoffs. On top of that, he also was a nice influence on other Russian players here and made them feel comfortable when they arrived. The Wings started rising when he came on board.

 

[ricky0034]

I can't believe some think his number shouldn't be retired. This wasn't just a good player, he won 3 Cups, a Hart, and was a monster in the playoffs. On top of that, he also was a nice influence on other Russian players here and made them feel comfortable when they arrived. The Wings started rising when he came on board.

and for all the talk about him not spending his entire career here he's still 11th in franchise history for regular season games played with the franchise and 7th in Playoff games played for the franchise

 

[Winger98]

What are your thoughts on the Avalanche retiring Bourques number?

lame as hell. Be like us retiring Hull, Robitaille, or Hasek - who all played far more games for us than Ray did for the Avs.

 

[Winger98]

Fans would like to see his number retired. But it's never going to happen.

Detroit has strict guidelines. Of which they have followed. But the real answer is the holdout in '97 and leaving town once that contract ended.

I think this plays a part, and some of it might be personal, but I think it another part of it is...does anyone see Fedorov as being synonymous with the Wings? Yzerman wasn't just a great player, he wasn't just the captain for 20 years...he was the Wings. Lidstrom took that mantle and carried it for awhile. I never got that feeling with Feds or Shanny or Datsyuk. Sort of with Z, he was the next closest, but while he was here I think he was clearly not on Lidstrom's level there.

I know this is a messy concept, and there are going to be people who associate Feds tightly with Detroit, but I think there is a something to the jersey retirement thing that Feds doesn't hit. I don't think Larkin hits it, either. Mo is the next one to have a chance, imo.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I think this plays a part, and some of it might be personal, but I think it another part of it is...does anyone see Fedorov as being synonymous with the Wings? Yzerman wasn't just a great player, he wasn't just the captain for 20 years...he was the Wings. Lidstrom took that mantle and carried it for awhile. I never got that feeling with Feds or Shanny or Datsyuk. Sort of with Z, he was the next closest, but while he was here I think he was clearly not on Lidstrom's level there.

I know this is a messy concept, and there are going to be people who associate Feds tightly with Detroit, but I think there is a something to the jersey retirement thing that Feds doesn't hit. I don't think Larkin hits it, either. Mo is the next one to have a chance, imo.

I think the thing you're touching on is just being a top 10 player of all time. Lidstrom and Yzerman (and Howe) are setting an unreasonable standard. Include Delvecchio, Abel, Sawchuk, etc. and suddenly Fedorov looks like an obvious yes- unless you're butthurt about the exit

 

[Winger98]

I think the thing you're touching on is just being a top 10 player of all time. Lidstrom and Yzerman (and Howe) are setting an unreasonable standard. Include Delvecchio, Abel, Sawchuk, etc. and suddenly Fedorov looks like an obvious yes- unless you're butthurt about the exit

Your argument is really just about numbers but then where are you banging the drum for Norm Ullman? Or Reed Larson? Why aren't you making a case for Z or Datsyuk or Shanny? You accrue numbers to get into HoF, that's the reward for that.

But The Production Line, Sawchuck...they were foundational and defining pieces of the organization. If you think Fedorov (or Z, or Shanny, etc.) will ever be viewed as that...you're just wrong. Even if Fed gets his jersey lifted tomorrow he's never going to be viewed the same as them. It takes more than skill and points.

 

[jkutswings]

Your argument is really just about numbers but then where are you banging the drum for Norm Ullman? Or Reed Larson? Why aren't you making a case for Z or Datsyuk or Shanny? You accrue numbers to get into HoF, that's the reward for that.

But The Production Line, Sawchuck...they were foundational and defining pieces of the organization. If you think Fedorov (or Z, or Shanny, etc.) will ever be viewed as that...you're just wrong. Even if Fed gets his jersey lifted tomorrow he's never going to be viewed the same as them. It takes more than skill and points.

I don't understand the bolded. Being as literal as possible: Did a player do enough for the Detroit Red Wings that nobody should ever be allowed to wear their number again?

That's an immediate and easy yes for numbers 1, 5, 7, 9, and 19. I think it's a discussion with anybody after that, and since Detroit has already retired more than just those 5 numbers, it's fair to say that it shouldn't have to be an immediate and easy yes for somebody to make the cut.

For the 3 Cups that Detroit won to define that era of success, Yzerman had 60 playoff points and Fedorov had 59. I think BOTH those players are every bit as "foundational and defining pieces of the organization" as Sid Abel. (Not saying they're all equal. Just that all make the cut of nobody wearing their number again.)

Aside from the circumstances of his departure, what exactly do you think is missing from Fedorov getting in?

 

[Winger98]

I don't understand the bolded. Being as literal as possible: Did a player do enough for the Detroit Red Wings that nobody should ever be allowed to wear their number again?

That's an immediate and easy yes for numbers 1, 5, 7, 9, and 19. I think it's a discussion with anybody after that, and since Detroit has already retired more than just those 5 numbers, it's fair to say that it shouldn't have to be an immediate and easy yes for somebody to make the cut.

For the 3 Cups that Detroit won to define that era of success, Yzerman had 60 playoff points and Fedorov had 59. I think BOTH those players are every bit as "foundational and defining pieces of the organization" as Sid Abel. (Not saying they're all equal. Just that all make the cut of nobody wearing their number again.)

Aside from the circumstances of his departure, what exactly do you think is missing from Fedorov getting in?

The same thing that Shanny lacks. And Datsyuk. And Z. It's not something that only comes with numbers, and I've already admitted this is a messy thing that I find hard defining, and that it's something that is likely highly personal.

Fedorov doesn't define the Wings for me. When I picture those teams from the 90s, he's not the face of it. He was an essential piece to it's success, though I think Shanny was, too. But Yzerman is the guy I see as the wings. Lidstrom is the guy I see after that, though I think to a degree less than Yzerman. Honestly, I wouldn't have been disturbed by Lids' number not being retired.

To get your number retired, by the Wings, you have to be a great player. Obviously. But I think you need that something that makes you unquestionably a great Wing. For me, Fedorov doesn't have that intangible thing. But, as I said earlier, I also wouldn't complain if they did retire his number. I would push for Z to be next, though.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I might be bias but if someone told me to close my eyes and picture the 1997 and 1998 Cup runs, I immediately see Sergei Fedorov in his head to ZoomAir toe Nike clad get up going on a breakaway with one hand on his stick while his longish yet still dry hair whips in the breeze.

 

[Bench]

The same thing that Shanny lacks. And Datsyuk. And Z. It's not something that only comes with numbers, and I've already admitted this is a messy thing that I find hard defining, and that it's something that is likely highly personal.

Fedorov doesn't define the Wings for me. When I picture those teams from the 90s, he's not the face of it. He was an essential piece to it's success, though I think Shanny was, too. But Yzerman is the guy I see as the wings. Lidstrom is the guy I see after that, though I think to a degree less than Yzerman. Honestly, I wouldn't have been disturbed by Lids' number not being retired.

To get your number retired, by the Wings, you have to be a great player. Obviously. But I think you need that something that makes you unquestionably a great Wing. For me, Fedorov doesn't have that intangible thing. But, as I said earlier, I also wouldn't complain if they did retire his number. I would push for Z to be next, though.

I'm glad I read through all the comments before replying so I could read yours that sums up my feelings as well.

Given how Feds bailed, I'm fine leaving him out of the rafters. Hall of Fame player isn't the same as Red Wings jersey retirement. But he's basically the closest possible scenario I could imagine leaving out of that group, so if they want to put him in, I'm completely cool with that, too.

Zetterberg is also my first choice if we're adding someone new. A guy out of the 7th round becoming a Cup champ, carrying the C, and a Wings lifer? Those are intangibles.

 

[norrisnick]

The way Fedorov left reflects more poorly on the Wings than it does on him.

 

[Electric Eric]

Fedorov doesn't define the Wings for me. When I picture those teams from the 90s, he's not the face of it. He was an essential piece to it's success, though I think Shanny was, too. But Yzerman is the guy I see as the wings. Lidstrom is the guy I see after that, though I think to a degree less than Yzerman. Honestly, I wouldn't have been disturbed by Lids' number not being retired.

See for me he was the face, he was the Wings. Yzerman was/is awesome and the Captain but man oh man when I was a kid Fedorov was capital C Cool. He made not only the Wings exciting but the NHL exciting.

Not saying his number should be retired because he was cool, but I do think it should be retired because I never want to see anyone wearing 91 again.