Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[VanillaCoke]

They aint signing anyone, Horvat and Kuz want out of this disaster.

EP probably too in a couple years

 

[MS]

Seravalli has an article that speculates what Eastern Conference teams will focus on at the trade deadline. Expects the Bruins and Capitals to be in on Horvat.

The Bruins could offer literally every U-23 player in their organization for Horvat and I don't think I'd accept that trade.

Washington at least has one interesting asset in Iorio.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Studnicka is from the same Benning type.

Bear is absolutely not. He had been an NHL regular for multiple seasons, played a full season as a top-4 defender at 22 minutes/game, and basically walked straight into top-4 minutes here. Incredibly different sort of player. Same with Dermott who had extended periods as an effective NHL defender. The guys Benning was trading for were busting prospect who had never shown an ability to be effective in the NHL.

I think Stillman was a cap dump to even up part of the salary of that trade that the team was hoping could be useful defensive depth. I don't think he was 'targeted' as such.

RE: Stillman. He may have not been the target per say, but the deployment seems to suggest that either Bruce went rogue and took an extended view on a guy who flat out sucks or management took an extended look on the guy. Either way, the assessment period for him was far too long and the guy should have been immediately sent down.

 

[Bob Cajun]

The Bruins could offer literally every U-23 player in their organization for Horvat and I don't think I'd accept that trade.

Washington at least has one interesting asset in Iorio.

And on top of that for Boston, They'd have to send salary back (or we max retain to make it work). I don't see the assets from the Bruins to land Horvat

 

[MS]

RE: Stillman. He may have not been the target per say, but the deployment seems to suggest that either Bruce went rogue and took an extended view on a guy who flat out sucks or management took an extended look on the guy. Either way, the assessment period for him was far too long and the guy should have been immediately sent down.

I think that was 100% Bruce. Rutherford has confirmed that they don't intervene in lineup decisions and the fact that Boudreau healthy scratched Kuzmenko - a management pet they really want to re-sign and would never have wanted to see scratched - should be the Rosetta Stone that makes that pretty clear.

And on top of that for Boston, They'd have to send salary back (or we max retain to make it work). I don't see the assets from the Bruins to land Horvat

I'm sure we'll see lots of Lysell/Beecher/1st proposals but that is a steaming pile of ass for a player of Horvat's calibre.

 

[Vector]

I'm sure we'll see lots of Lysell/Beecher/1st proposals but that is a steaming pile of ass for a player of Horvat's calibre.

I could see something worked around where Brandon Carlo is coming the other way. Given his long concussion history, I'm not sure that's something the Canucks would explore.

 

[vancityluongo]

it's never going to happen between two risk averse dinosaur GMs within the same division, but man i'd love if we could snag puljujarvi + bouchard for horvat + schenn

should work for them salary wise, gives us two clear u25 NHL players with high pedigree and IMO big remaining upside if unleashed and used properly. they get clear upgrades* for a playoff run and some much needed leadership and defensive ability.

*bouchard is already better than schenn, but not in terms of fit when barrie plays top pp minutes and the nurse-ceci pairing keeps getting ventilated in matchups.

 

[Bob Cajun]

I think that was 100% Bruce. Rutherford has confirmed that they don't intervene in lineup decisions and the fact that Boudreau healthy scratched Kuzmenko - a management pet they really want to re-sign and would never have wanted to see scratched - should be the Rosetta Stone that makes that pretty clear.



I'm sure we'll see lots of Lysell/Beecher/1st proposals but that is a steaming pile of ass for a player of Horvat's calibre.

100% agree there. Washington is a much better fit with McMichael/Protas/Fehervary/LaPierre

 

[4Twenty]

Horvat is a rental. The price will be a rental price. These are basically already set.

The return is going to disappoint, especially since the Rangers offer for Miller last deadline was shot down by the majority.

Teams acquiring rentals aren’t often putting top prospects or quality young roster players (especially at premium positions) in the deal.

Folks expecting deadline selling of a rental to drastically change the future in a positive way are just being unrealistic.

 

[MS]

I could see something worked around where Brandon Carlo is coming the other way. Given his long concussion history, I'm not sure that's something the Canucks would explore.

I can't see Boston wanting to move him and I also can't see how the team could sell moving Horvat in the middle of a 50-goal season and getting a similar-age #4-5 defender back.

Horvat is a rental. The price will be a rental price. These are basically already set.

The return is going to disappoint, especially since the Rangers offer for Miller last deadline was shot down by the majority.

Teams acquiring rentals aren’t often putting top prospects or quality young roster players (especially at premium positions) in the deal.

Folks expecting deadline selling of a rental to drastically change the future in a positive way are just being unrealistic.

Yes, absolutely.

This is why teams basically never let players of this age/ability hit UFA if there is any way to sign him. If we trade Horvat, it is almost guaranteed to be a disaster for the franchise in terms of value received relative to his on-ice impact. In my mind it's absolutely f***ing crazy to not just be giving him the $8 million or whatever and keeping him.

 

[Peter Griffin]

This is why teams basically never let players of this age/ability hit UFA if there is any way to sign him. If we trade Horvat, it is almost guaranteed to be a disaster for the franchise in terms of value received relative to his on-ice impact. In my mind it's absolutely f***ing crazy to not just be giving him the $8 million or whatever and keeping him.

This is what I don't understand about Allvin's "building brick by brick" philosophy and the concept of moving Bo Horvat. They don't go hand in hand. You're absolutely not replacing the impact Bo has on this team easily, and this team even with Bo playing unreal, is a bottom 10 team. Moving Bo is going to blast a huge hole in the proverbial brick wall. If they don't re-sign him, I don't see how they effectively keep pushing this "brick by brick" narrative, you have to at least do a re-tool at that point.

 

[TruGr1t]

Yes, absolutely.

This is why teams basically never let players of this age/ability hit UFA if there is any way to sign him. If we trade Horvat, it is almost guaranteed to be a disaster for the franchise in terms of value received relative to his on-ice impact. In my mind it's absolutely f***ing crazy to not just be giving him the $8 million or whatever and keeping him.

It takes two to tango. Horvat probably has no interest in playing here, and it would take well north of $8M AAV to even get conversations started.

 

[Timmer44]

It takes two to tango. Horvat probably has no interest in playing here, and it would take well north of $8M AAV to even get conversations started.

I don't think it would. I think $8x8yrs easily gets it done. I just think the Canucks don't want to go there.

 

[TruGr1t]

I don't think it would. I think $8x8yrs easily gets it done. I just think the Canucks don't want to go there.

I think it would take closer to $9M AAV, personally.

 

[wonton15]

it's never going to happen between two risk averse dinosaur GMs within the same division, but man i'd love if we could snag puljujarvi + bouchard for horvat + schenn

should work for them salary wise, gives us two clear u25 NHL players with high pedigree and IMO big remaining upside if unleashed and used properly. they get clear upgrades* for a playoff run and some much needed leadership and defensive ability.

*bouchard is already better than schenn, but not in terms of fit when barrie plays top pp minutes and the nurse-ceci pairing keeps getting ventilated in matchups.

That is a disgusting return for those two pieces. Hard no.

 

[Vector]

I think it would take closer to $9M AAV, personally.

There was a reported rumour that some team is willing to offer him 10m or more.

 

[gringo]

There was a reported rumour that some team is willing to offer him 10m or more.

lmao please by all means I hope they do

 

[Peter Griffin]

There was a reported rumour that some team is willing to offer him 10m or more.

I believe it was actually $9M that Seravalli mentioned. And considering no other team can offer Bo 8 years other than the Canucks come July(other than a team that acquires his rights prior to the trade deadline), that's effectively equivalent to an 8x8 offer from the Canucks.

 

[TruGr1t]

There was a reported rumour that some team is willing to offer him 10m or more.

I doubt it. I think realistically he could get 7x9M, or a little north if things get spicy. I think the Canucks need to approach something around 8x9M to even get conversations going at this point. I just believe they've effectively burned the bridge with him given all that's happened.

 

[Timmer44]

=


I doubt it. I think realistically he could get 7x9M, or a little north if things get spicy. I think the Canucks need to approach something around 8x9M to even get conversations going at this point.

They've painted themselves into a corner here.

The assets they are going to get from him at the deadline are low, and the cost it'll take to retian him is far too high. Letting this linger on this long is just par for the course from this franchise.

 

[Vector]

I believe it was actually $9M that Seravalli mentioned. And considering no other team can offer Bo 8 years other than the Canucks come July(other than a team that acquires his rights prior to the trade deadline), that's effectively equivalent to an 8x8 offer from the Canucks.

You're right. The quote is "I have reason to believe that one team out there is willing to pay Bo Horvat a number that starts with a 9.”

=


I doubt it. I think realistically he could get 7x9M, or a little north if things get spicy. I think the Canucks need to approach something around 8x9M to even get conversations going at this point. I just believe they've effectively burned the bridge with him given all that's happened.

I stand corrected but it will probably end up over 9m.

 

[vancityluongo]

Yes, absolutely.

This is why teams basically never let players of this age/ability hit UFA if there is any way to sign him. If we trade Horvat, it is almost guaranteed to be a disaster for the franchise in terms of value received relative to his on-ice impact. In my mind it's absolutely f***ing crazy to not just be giving him the $8 million or whatever and keeping him.

immediate on-ice impact, sure. but over the life of the contract? with where the team is at? miller went from being a massive surplus asset to not, blown up overnight when he signed a negative-for-this-team NPV contract. horvat at an 8x8 is likely to be the same.

who cares what fans expect. i think you were right on the money in terms of what the targets should be - guys like laf, kakko, holtz, puljujarvi. hell, i've come around on kotkaniemi too.

like it's one thing to sign a guy like darnell nurse to a clearly bad contract - because you have a generational talent in his prime and cannot let your #1 defenseman go even if he should be a #2 and paid about $3m less per year.

what is the vision of keeping this core together for more and more money each year? the best players are not getting collectively better. for every bit that pettersson + hughes gets better next season, oel + myers + miller + horvat are getting worse.

like bo is about to score 30 goals before the halfway point of the season at $5.5m. JT still makes $5.25. kuzmenko is at league minimum. the team sucks. maybe demko bounces back next year, but then what? petey is getting a raise in two years. the only money coming off in that window is myers and they don't even have any sort of replacement for him. bottom-5 prospect pool in the league.

maybe running it back is better than getting nothing assets like lysell back, but idk.

 

[credulous]

it's never going to happen between two risk averse dinosaur GMs within the same division, but man i'd love if we could snag puljujarvi + bouchard for horvat + schenn

should work for them salary wise, gives us two clear u25 NHL players with high pedigree and IMO big remaining upside if unleashed and used properly. they get clear upgrades* for a playoff run and some much needed leadership and defensive ability.

*bouchard is already better than schenn, but not in terms of fit when barrie plays top pp minutes and the nurse-ceci pairing keeps getting ventilated in matchups.

getting bouchard would be a coup but i don't think there's anyway it happens

 

[DonnyNucker]

It’s simply time for JR/Allvin to do what effing needs to be done. Should’ve been done long ago. The schedule upcoming is brutal. There is absolutely no chance of playoffs. All there is now is maximizing their lottery odds.

Between now and the TDL, at minimum, they need to:
- Trade Horvat
- Trade Kuzmenko
- Trade Schenn
- Move Miller for anything

Then in the offseason find a way off Myers and Boeser. Find a trade for Demko. Blow. It. Up.

It’s January 4th. They know playoffs aren’t a possibility

 

[racerjoe]

I can't see Boston wanting to move him and I also can't see how the team could sell moving Horvat in the middle of a 50-goal season and getting a similar-age #4-5 defender back.




Yes, absolutely.

This is why teams basically never let players of this age/ability hit UFA if there is any way to sign him. If we trade Horvat, it is almost guaranteed to be a disaster for the franchise in terms of value received relative to his on-ice impact. In my mind it's absolutely f***ing crazy to not just be giving him the $8 million or whatever and keeping him.

The team does probably take an immediate step back depending on a few other details, but you also can't sign Horvat to a contract that hurts your chance of signing Petey and also raises what he would ask for. There is a careful balance and I don't know if we will stick either landing.