Faber

[Axl Rhoadz]

I have zero issues with this trade. Faber is really good. Fiala is really good. I don’t give two shits about salary cap stuff. Faber is going to be making what Fiala is and more shortly. RHD was an absolute area of strength and depth at the time of the trade and it still is.

This is too logical of a post, gonna have to put you on ignore. C-ya, bud.

 

[Sol]

I’ve never seen a player get as unjustifiably disrespected on this board than Fiala. You can have an issue with the timing or just because you really like Faber, however that doesn’t mean that Fiala is a bad player. There’s not one player who has Fialas talent level on the Kings. It’s fair to hate the trade, but don’t make it about Fiala. Fiala is the most talented player the Kings had since Palffy and it’s not close.

A trade that you can objectively hate is the PLD because PLD is objectively a very overrated and unproductive player who shows zero effort. You can’t ever say that about Fiala, Fialas biggest criticism is the fact he tries too hard at times that he ends up making a bad play or takes a penalty. But that is never from him being lazy, just trying to create which is commendable.

 

[Mattias]

The trade was a reasonable micro decision that was part of a bigger and horrific macro one.

Rob Blake created this ridiculous window to try and win with players on their last legs, Faber was going back to the Gophers and then with the Kings archaic development system and insistence that every player spend time in Ontario, was not going to be in LA until the 24-25 season when Kopitar would be 37 and Doughty 35. Fiala provided scoring that was going to be necessary to make the Kings cup odds go from 0% chance to maybe a 5% chance.

Said it though last season, he was every bit as good a prospect as Power and L Hughes. Sad that the best player the Kings have drafted since Doughty never played a game in LA due to managerial incompetence.

At least we can cheer for him in the Olympics.

Bold is the most important part. After Doughty’s “time is running out” comment, the whole philosophy changed. Kings were just fine having loads of cap space and an impressive pipeline of blue chip talent.

Then came contract after contract. Eating up cap space to the top.
Trading away multiple first round picks and prospects.
Mismanaged prospects and severely harming normal trajectories of players.

All to appease players who are past prime.

 

[kingsfan28]

Faber’s stock went up significantly after the 2021 World Juniors. If there was a redraft when the trade happened, he would have gone in the first round.

You can say that in any draft. Hell, after that good rookie year, everyone had Seider and Zegras going 1-2 , with Hughes falling out of the top spot in most redrafts. Hows that look now a few years later? There was no guarantee he'd be starting this year at all, especially top minutes as a top pair guy [this due to injury]. Doughty-Roy-? ...Spence< Clarke< Faber . Only 1 can play and it would probably been Spence out of camp.

 

[BaileyFan]

Bold is the most important part. After Doughty’s “time is running out” comment, the whole philosophy changed. Kings were just fine having loads of cap space and an impressive pipeline of blue chip talent.

Then came contract after contract. Eating up cap space to the top.
Trading away multiple first round picks and prospects.
Mismanaged prospects and severely harming normal trajectories of players.

All to appease players who are past prime.

It’s annoying that DD got his way by pouting but Blake had no intention of ever doing a real rebuild. It’s been reported that he was hot for PLD the first time he was traded and the only reason he didn’t get him was because Columbus didn’t want futures. That was before Doughty’s comments during a tank year. Imagine if we ended up stuck with PLD but gave up the pick that became Clarke in the trade.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If Doughty didn't want to be part of the rebuild they should have traded him.

IMO the Kings should have gone scorched earth like the Ducks and Hawks and blown it all up and just played Vilardi, Byfield, Clarke, Spence, Faber, etc....

Kopitar would have probably stayed like Getzalf, but DD would have requested a trade. That's fine.

Blake let him dictate how he managed the team after 2017.

 

[Nasti]

You can say that in any draft. Hell, after that good rookie year, everyone had Seider and Zegras going 1-2 , with Hughes falling out of the top spot in most redrafts. Hows that look now a few years later? There was no guarantee he'd be starting this year at all, especially top minutes as a top pair guy [this due to injury]. Doughty-Roy-? ...Spence< Clarke< Faber . Only 1 can play and it would probably been Spence out of camp.

There were people on this message board saying he’d be this good by the time he was traded. If posters on the internet could see it, surely you’d hope the general manager of a professional sports team could too. The point I was making about the World Juniors was that it’s a bad argument to judge the trade based on where he was drafted.

 

[Statto]

Bold is the most important part. After Doughty’s “time is running out” comment, the whole philosophy changed. Kings were just fine having loads of cap space and an impressive pipeline of blue chip talent.

Then came contract after contract. Eating up cap space to the top.
Trading away multiple first round picks and prospects.
Mismanaged prospects and severely harming normal trajectories of players.

All to appease players who are past prime.

I still Luc blame for this. Organizational strategy is Luc’s… GM is tactical these days. That doesn’t excuse Blake but a decision on ReTool/Rebuild/Contend is strategic in business terms and these days things are run on that basis.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

There were people on this message board saying he’d be this good by the time he was traded. If posters on the internet could see it, surely you’d hope the general manager of a professional sports team could too. The point I was making about the World Juniors was that it’s a bad argument to judge the trade based on where he was drafted.

You are telling we could have got Fiala for JAD and an 8th rounder?? Damn, Blake is…..SO dumb.

 

[bland]

I have zero issues with this trade. Faber is really good. Fiala is really good. I don’t give two shits about salary cap stuff. Faber is going to be making what Fiala is and more shortly. RHD was an absolute area of strength and depth at the time of the trade and it still is.

Doughty
Roy
Spence
Clarke

Vs

Faber
Durzi
Walker

Which set of RHD are having the better years?

Exactly.

This isn’t a video game. Depth doesn't mean a damn thing if you cannot evaluate your players correctly. The Kings made poor evaluations.

 

[bland]

Fiala hasn’t had the best stretch but the team is anemic on offense. Kings need a guy that can generate like him. Still producing even with the gaffs and slump of the whole team.

I still think Faber ends up at best a top four in LA. Maybe 20-30 seconds of pp 2. He wouldn’t be putting up the numbers here.


I’m realizing that Spence likely should be traded too. He is basically a back up here. Will play on the third pairing and likely won’t see pp time behind Clarke and Doughty.

I still think Spence’s history and talent are underrated. He is really good most nights. Just a tad undersized.

So you are justifying the trade by stating that Faber wouldn't have had the opportunity to be as successful here as an argument to counter the assertion that this management team makes poor decisions?

That's the entire point. We are all lamenting these errors in judgment, which is that Blake decided he could part with the best option for a disposable winger like Fiala whose offense is nearly negated by his stupid decision making and inability to play the teams gameplan.

That's the problem. They had a blue chip stud defenseman and thought they could move him due to their depth and made yet another flat out stupid decision. That's why this is still a topic, the same dude is in the same spot with more assets in the chamber.

 

[Herby]

Again, if you knew this, and no knock on you, how in the f*** did Faber fall to the 2nd round? Halfway through the 2nd, let's see who passed on him to take OTHER D,

The same reason why Alex Turcotte went #5 overall when he should have been a mid to late 1st kind of prospect, it's tough to evaluate players coming out of the NTDP, and much easier to evaluate them after one year in college. Had the old rules still been in place and both players were drafted after their freshman year of college their draft spots would have been much more in-line with their value as players.

Faber was a finalist as an 18 year-old true freshman for B10 defenseman of the year and was coming off winning B10 defenseman of the year as a 19 year-old sophomore (over Power and L Hughes) when he was traded by the Kings (and went on to win it again as a junior) we should use that information, and evaluations of him in college at 18-19-20 much more than what he as projected to be as a 17 year old.

Faber was the best defensive d-man I have ever seen at this level of hockey, and it was right from the start, he had a special ability to suppress the other teams best players. I still do question whether the offense he is showing this year is sustainable, if it is he will contend for Norris trophies, if it's not (which I kind of think) he will still be a star defensive stopper, NHL captain and probably wear a letter for the national team in best vs best. It's ridiculous to ignore those things by deferring to poor evaluations as a 17 year old.

You can say that in any draft. Hell, after that good rookie year, everyone had Seider and Zegras going 1-2 , with Hughes falling out of the top spot in most redrafts. Hows that look now a few years later? There was no guarantee he'd be starting this year at all, especially top minutes as a top pair guy [this due to injury]. Doughty-Roy-? ...Spence< Clarke< Faber . Only 1 can play and it would probably been Spence out of camp.

This is an organizational problem and nothing to do with how good Faber is or isn't. Faber has been at another level better than any defenseman on the Kings this season. If he wouldn't have been on the NHL roster this season we should be taking a long hard look at how this team evaluates and integrates players into the lineup, instead of using decisions by inept management and a crony development staff to try and minimize a player.

I’ve never seen a player get as unjustifiably disrespected on this board than Fiala. You can have an issue with the timing or just because you really like Faber, however that doesn’t mean that Fiala is a bad player. There’s not one player who has Fialas talent level on the Kings. It’s fair to hate the trade, but don’t make it about Fiala. Fiala is the most talented player the Kings had since Palffy and it’s not close.

A trade that you can objectively hate is the PLD because PLD is objectively a very overrated and unproductive player who shows zero effort. You can’t ever say that about Fiala, Fialas biggest criticism is the fact he tries too hard at times that he ends up making a bad play or takes a penalty. But that is never from him being lazy, just trying to create which is commendable.

I like Fiala, he is a good player, I do think he gets torn down a bit unfairly here.

But he's a 27 year old one-dimensional winger making $8m a year who has had issues in other places in the past (and now apparently here) who as traded for a player who is a #1 d-man in the NHL, likely rookie of the year making $925k.

Fiala is the type of final piece you trade for when you have the rest of your foundation and your culture set. When you have your top 2 C's, your #1 d-man, your #1 goalie. Similar to when the Kings traded for Carter or the Pens traded for Kessel.

The same is true of Danault, when you have everything all set but still need that nails third line center to help you win playoff series.

Yeah, I was certain he would be a first pairing defenseman playing mega minutes a night. It was easy to project him as a franchise cornerstone Norstrom with far better puck and skating skills type. His breakouts were impeccable, but the immediate offensive contributions are definitely a surprise.

The argument I always made was that there is no possible way that a player like Fiala would ever mean more to a team's success than a player like Faber. Offense is incredibly easy to acquire, you can get comparable players to Fiala eveey single offseason. But you can't find elite skating defensemen capable of shutting down the oppositions best players. Faber against MacDavid massively outweighs the numbers a Fiala would put up in a series. You simply never trade those players, everybody in the league is starving for that when they want to make a run for it.

Two very valid points in this post.

1. A player who plays the style that Faber did in college is easily projectable to the next level. This guy has a natural God-given ability to stop or significantly slow down the others teams top players. Even if the offense never came he still had that, his floor was a Mattias Norstrom type player.

2. It's much much easier to acquire players like Fiala than it is to acquire players like Faber. How often do you see #1 defenseman traded in the NHL? How often do you see fringe first line scorers traded or signed?

You are telling we could have got Fiala for JAD and an 8th rounder?? Damn, Blake is…..SO dumb.

The straw man King is back to claim his crown. That is not what he said at all, but we all know you are the King of making stuff up.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

The straw man King is back to claim his crown. That is not what he said at all, but we all know you are the King of making stuff up.

But it's basically what the 'experts' are implying. Faber is trending to be a stud d-man and now everyone is saying Blake is an idiot for trading him. Yet, you go back to the original trade thread (which I posted yesterday), and ironically that is not the majority take at all. I know, shocking right?

BUT TODAY, everyone seems to imply that it's common knowledge that Fiala could have been acquired for less....and if Blake wasn't such an idiot, he would have done just that.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Faber’s stock went up significantly after the 2021 World Juniors. If there was a redraft when the trade happened, he would have gone in the first round.

The same reason why Alex Turcotte went #5 overall when he should have been a mid to late 1st kind of prospect, it's tough to evaluate players coming out of the NTDP, and much easier to evaluate them after one year in college. Had the old rules still been in place and both players were drafted after their freshman year of college their draft spots would have been much more in-line with their value as players.

Faber was a finalist as an 18 year-old true freshman for B10 defenseman of the year and was coming off winning B10 defenseman of the year as a 19 year-old sophomore (over Power and L Hughes) when he was traded by the Kings (and went on to win it again as a junior) we should use that information, and evaluations of him in college at 18-19-20 much more than what he as projected to be as a 17 year old.

Faber was the best defensive d-man I have ever seen at this level of hockey, and it was right from the start, he had a special ability to suppress the other teams best players. I still do question whether the offense he is showing this year is sustainable, if it is he will contend for Norris trophies, if it's not (which I kind of think) he will still be a star defensive stopper, NHL captain and probably wear a letter for the national team in best vs best. It's ridiculous to ignore those things by deferring to poor evaluations as a 17 year old.



This is an organizational problem and nothing to do with how good Faber is or isn't. Faber has been at another level better than any defenseman on the Kings this season. If he wouldn't have been on the NHL roster this season we should be taking a long hard look at how this team evaluates and integrates players into the lineup, instead of using decisions by inept management and a crony development staff to try and minimize a player.



I like Fiala, he is a good player, I do think he gets torn down a bit unfairly here.

But he's a 27 year old one-dimensional winger making $8m a year who has had issues in other places in the past (and now apparently here) who as traded for a player who is a #1 d-man in the NHL, likely rookie of the year making $925k.

Fiala is the type of final piece you trade for when you have the rest of your foundation and your culture set. When you have your top 2 C's, your #1 d-man, your #1 goalie. Similar to when the Kings traded for Carter or the Pens traded for Kessel.

The same is true of Danault, when you have everything all set but still need that nails third line center to help you win playoff series.



Two very valid points in this post.

1. A player who plays the style that Faber did in college is easily projectable to the next level. This guy has a natural God-given ability to stop or significantly slow down the others teams top players. Even if the offense never came he still had that, his floor was a Mattias Norstrom type player.

2. It's much much easier to acquire players like Fiala than it is to acquire players like Faber. How often do you see #1 defenseman traded in the NHL? How often do you see fringe first line scorers traded or signed?



The straw man King is back to claim his crown. That is not what he said at all, but we all know you are the King of making stuff up.

Well, are we using the information from after he was drafted....or not? You first said he was poorly projected, then you say here, it's easily projectable.....because I go back to where he was drafted, it was CLEARLY not easily projectable or every team just didn't value what he brought.

And #2, I went through the past 2 years of off-season deals, exactly THREE players of that scoring caliber changed teams via trade/UFA signing.....so yea...it's not exactly like they are growing on trees there

 

[chris kontos]

kevin fiala provides some really hilarious bits of hockey for me in yet another rudderless kings season. he is very handsome, eh boys?

 

[Herby]

Well, are we using the information from after he was drafted....or not? You first said he was poorly projected, then you say here, it's easily projectable.....because I go back to where he was drafted, it was CLEARLY not easily projectable or every team just didn't value what he brought.

And #2, I went through the past 2 years of off-season deals, exactly THREE players of that scoring caliber changed teams via trade/UFA signing.....so yea...it's not exactly like they are growing on trees there

Easier to project it when he's slowing down Adam Fantilli, Matty Beniers and Cole Caufield as opposed to doing it vs. nobody's in the USHL.

If someone is suppressing offense at the level he is doing it at the NCAA (while also doing it on the international stage at both the junior and senior level) it's a pretty good indication he will do it at the next level.

 

[YP44]

If Doughty didn't want to be part of the rebuild they should have traded him.

IMO the Kings should have gone scorched earth like the Ducks and Hawks and blown it all up and just played Vilardi, Byfield, Clarke, Spence, Faber, etc....

Kopitar would have probably stayed like Getzalf, but DD would have requested a trade. That's fine.

Blake let him dictate how he managed the team after 2017.

I love what Doughty has brought but unlike Brown and Kopitar I am would be ok with him playing elsewhere. Deal him to free up cap to re-sign Roy and QB while having more cap for a goalie. Plus get assets for him

But it's basically what the 'experts' are implying. Faber is trending to be a stud d-man and now everyone is saying Blake is an idiot for trading him. Yet, you go back to the original trade thread (which I posted yesterday), and ironically that is not the majority take at all. I know, shocking right?

BUT TODAY, everyone seems to imply that it's common knowledge that Fiala could have been acquired for less....and if Blake wasn't such an idiot, he would have done just that.

I was really big on Faber, but did not think he was going to be as effective right off the hop as he has been. That said I was still a fan as this was brining in a game breaker talent in Fiala. Honestly Hiller or whomever is next coach needs to find a way to get Fiala on the top line, even if that means moving Kopitar down. Dude is so skilled and you have to use that more effectively.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Easier to project it when he's slowing down Adam Fantilli, Matty Beniers and Cole Caufield as opposed to doing it vs. nobody's in the USHL.

If someone is suppressing offense at the level he is doing it at the NCAA (while also doing it on the international stage at both the junior and senior level) it's a pretty good indication he will do it at the next level.

But at the time he was drafted, he wasn't doing that at the NCAA level....so when he was drafted, it wasn't easily projected...was it?

 

[Herby]

But at the time he was drafted, he wasn't doing that at the NCAA level....so when he was drafted, it wasn't easily projected...was it?

I thought the discussion was centered around when he was traded? By then he was already a huge star player at the NCAA level.

Everyone here should know by now that I place much more importance on what a player does at 18 or 19 as opposed to what he does at 17, especially for college players. I think going away from drafting NCAA players after freshman year to go to drafting them out of the USHL was a big mistake. I guess it's evened out with the Kings, I think it was a disaster for the Kings with Turcotte and a big win with Faber. But it's much much easier to tell after a year in the NCAA.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I thought the discussion was centered around when he was traded? By then he was already a huge star player at the NCAA level.

Everyone here should know by now that I place much more importance on what a player does at 18 or 19 as opposed to what he does at 17, especially for college players. I think going away from drafting NCAA players after freshman year to go to drafting them out of the USHL was a big mistake. I guess it's evened out with the Kings, I think it was a disaster for the Kings with Turcotte and a big win with Faber. But it's much much easier to tell after a year in the NCAA.

Agreed, but I was commenting on the poster who said he knew without a certainty of doubt of what Faber would be...WHEN HE WAS DRAFTED.....which is rightfully being called out as BS.

At the time of the trade, which was the year after, so one year in NCAA etc, it's an easier argument to make, but everyone is now going back hindsight, saying see, we always knew this was gonna be the case, when A. no they didn't, B. scores like Fiala ARE NOT available in the off-season, and Dmen like Faber are not readily available either, last one that I remember traded is Seth Jones....for...Ryan Johansson, etc

 

[Schmooley]

But at the time he was drafted, he wasn't doing that at the NCAA level....so when he was drafted, it wasn't easily projected...was it?

Its not projectable before NCAA so you have to wait and see what you have in your draft picks before making moves like Danault, Fiala and Dubois. Had they stayed the course theyd be ready to make these moves this offseason. Byfield will be ready for center next year, Faber/Clarke as your first and second pair, Laferriere, Spence, Turcotte, Kaliyev in supporting roles or used as trade pieces plus the other high picks from this year and the last two years.
They would be looking into free agents this offseason like Guentzel to play on a line with Byfield and Kempe instead of trading Faber, a first, and second rounders for Fiala and Arvidsson in an attempt to find wingers for Kopitar. Neither worked out there.

 

[Nasti]

You are telling we could have got Fiala for JAD and an 8th rounder?? Damn, Blake is…..SO dumb.

WTF said that?

 

[Herby]

WTF said that?

Welcome to discussions with Axl.

 

[LAKings88]

So you are justifying the trade by stating that Faber wouldn't have had the opportunity to be as successful here as an argument to counter the assertion that this management team makes poor decisions?

That's the entire point. We are all lamenting these errors in judgment, which is that Blake decided he could part with the best option for a disposable winger like Fiala whose offense is nearly negated by his stupid decision making and inability to play the teams gameplan.

That's the problem. They had a blue chip stud defenseman and thought they could move him due to their depth and made yet another flat out stupid decision. That's why this is still a topic, the same dude is in the same spot with more assets in the chamber.

It's a factor tho no? Not a justification. LA needed a guy like Fiala. He provides offense and creativity. He is another weapon that teams have to be aware of opening up more opportunities for other lines.
You can argue he isn't the right type of offensive player due to his gaffs and that he is a puck carrier/distributor. The team wanted to take the next step and gamebreaker was a need. Were there others available.....I'm not sure.

Faber was always a solid RHD but I don't recall anyone claiming he was going to be a Calder/Norris candidate prior to that trade. His numbers and playing time would not be the same. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be valuable but I doubt he would have the national spotlight on him. I'm just saying I get the reasoning behind it but I get that you don't like the choice Blake made here.

The arguments I'm seeing also seem to be tied into philosophical views on the rebuild. It seems many feel Danault, RV, and Fiala, shouldn't have happen in exchange for playing the drafted youth. Faber wanted to stay in college, Byfield had a rough start and needed to be placed with Kopi to break out. Turcotte has been a mess. Thomas needed shoulder transplants, etc.

Blake did bank on Kopi and Doughty and tried the last two seasons to be competitive. Is what it is. I get some would rather have done a burn it all down rebuild and maybe that would have been better.

 

[bland]

Welcome to discussions with Axl.

There is no point in responding or acknowledging nonsense, it just slows everybody else down.

Everybody has an equal right to their opinions, but not all opinions are equal. Some are just garbage, hence the blocking feature.