F Michael Misa - Saginaw Spirit, OHL (2025 Draft)

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Stonehill Skyhawks.

What is the difference in level that you think I'm asserting? Because I've been quite clear in my opinion. It's stated clearly.

And a check at the EP pages of Stonehill's top scorers reveals they were all top players in the various junior A leagues across NA (BCHL, AJHL, NAHL). Would they have been top CHL/USHL players in their age appropriate years? No, but the difference between the bottom of a CHL/USHL roster a top of a Junior A roster is not too much different, and obviously being older matters a lot. I don't know how it can be deemphasized. Slovakia U22 would destroy Russia U18. There's no real debate about that. Older, especially significantly older, means better. And the discussion about Stonehill is a little extreme. They represent nowhere near the average NCAA team. Just as comparing to the least talented junior team around wouldn't be a proper representation of the CHL.
I had a quick look and most of the Stonehill players weren't exactly top players in those lesser junior leagues even as overagers.

Sure the NCAA is older but to continually downgrade the OHL, which has been and still is a large NHL talent provider just seems really weird.
 
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I don’t think anybody can really provide a convincing argument against that. Misa and Bedard would be absolutely amazing.

Could you imagine Misa-Bedard-Demidov? It’s shame Chicago is poorly run.
Agree and for the 50th time at least, I still don't understand why they didn't take Demidov with that pick.
 
I had a quick look and most of the Stonehill players weren't exactly top players in those lesser junior leagues even as overagers.
These are their last years in Junior A

Anthony Galante: 45 points in 53 games
Henri Schreifels: 21 points in 20 games.
Evan Orr (defenseman): 43 points in 59 games.
Dominick Campione (defenseman): 20 points in 57 games
Teddy Lagerback: 49 points in 54 games.

All around 1PPG, except for a defenseman, and there was a defenseman that wasn't that far off 1PPG. All those guys were probably top 5 players on their Junior A teams. I never claimed they were winning the league awards, but those are very good players for those Junior A levels.
Sure the NCAA is older but to continually downgrade the OHL, which has been and still is a large NHL talent provider just seems really weird.
The NCAA isn't just older, it's a much better level. I still don't see you admitting that. Using the term "older" as opposed to "better" makes me think you are reticent to admit this.
 
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These are their last years in Junior A

Anthony Galante: 45 points in 53 games
Henri Schreifels: 21 points in 20 games.
Evan Orr (defenseman): 43 points in 59 games.
Dominick Campione (defenseman): 20 points in 57 games
Teddy Lagerback: 49 points in 54 games.

All around 1PPG, except for a defenseman, and there was a defenseman that wasn't that far off 1PPG. All those guys were probably top 5 players on their Junior A teams. I never claimed they were winning the league awards, but those are very good players for those Junior A levels.
That's fair but I read your post here,

they were all top players in the various junior A leagues across NA (BCHL, AJHL, NAHL).
Which is quite different than top players from their teams.

Either way most of these guys are Overagers in their leagues as the better players have for the most part left the league at younger ages to play at higher levels.


The NCAA isn't just older, it's a much better level. I still don't see you admitting that. Using the term "older" as opposed to "better" makes me think you are reticent to admit this.
I think that it's "better" because the players are older, lots of University sports teams would do quite well because they are older as well.

Either way the whole pissing match of league quality gets overblown as teams drafting players are drafting projection of individual talents not so much league quality to any great extent.
 
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Lmao at anyone that thinks the OHL can touch the Big Ten/NCHC/Hockey East
No one thinks that. Some people are acting like top talent from the CHL can't adapt to the NCAA. We'll get a clearer idea of the talent gap next year when CHL players start playing.
 
That's fair but I read your post here,


Which is quite different than top players from their teams.

Either way most of these guys are Overagers in their leagues as the better players have for the most part left the league at younger ages to play at higher levels.
I don’t want to get into semantics of what a top player means. I personally have no clue about if any of those players were good and if so exactly how good comparatively to their junior A teams, but I think we can generalize that these were top of the lineup junior A players. And that’s my point. Their age doesn’t really matter either. I’m just saying that top of the lineup junior A players are comparable to bottom of the lineup major junior players, roughly speaking. The idea these Stonehill players are all hacks and couldn’t play in major junior isn’t something I think the evidence supports.
 
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I don’t want to get into semantics of what a top player means. I personally have no clue about if any of those players were good and if so exactly how good comparatively to their junior A teams, but I think we can generalize that these were top of the lineup junior A players. And that’s my point. Their age doesn’t really matter either. I’m just saying that top of the lineup junior A players are comparable to bottom of the lineup major junior players, roughly speaking.



The idea these Stonehill players are all hacks and couldn’t play in major junior isn’t something I think the evidence supports.
Sure those Stonehill players could play on CHL teams, if they allowed 22,23,24 year olds but most of them were never talented enough to really have played there.

I also think that with the recent rule changes that we are going to see an altered landscape of where players play and what age in the different levels going forward and we can't really predict how that's all going to shake out yet.
 
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Sure those Stonehill players could play on CHL teams, if they allowed 22,23,24 year olds but most of them were never talented enough to really have played there.

I also think that with the recent rule changes that we are going to see an altered landscape of where players play and what age in the different levels going forward and we can't really predict how that's all going to shake out yet.
Even as 19 or 20 year olds. Check those seasons they put up those stats. Those junior A leagues pretty much have the same age limits as major junior.
 
Even as 19 or 20 year olds. Check those seasons they put up those stats. Those junior A leagues pretty much have the same age limits as major junior.
I went back and looked at them and for the guys in the BCJHL and AJHL I have a better handle on as I follow the WHL more closely and they were at best fringe WHL guys in their 20 year old seasons (but not even then really as the wHL has a 3 player limit and none of those guys were ever in the top 100 of their age group in the WHL area of hockey, probably not even top 200 really.

Their scoring gets much better at 19 and 20 because the better players leave the league much earlier and they just have an age/physical advantage to look okay.

Now their current roster might be a bit better but just look at their alumni report here.

 
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I had a quick look and most of the Stonehill players weren't exactly top players in those lesser junior leagues even as overagers.

Sure the NCAA is older but to continually downgrade the OHL, which has been and still is a large NHL talent provider just seems really weird.

They aren't just older. Most NCAA 1st Division players are former top junior leagues kids. When you graduate the USHL and then keep playing competitive hockey, of course you're better at age 22 than you were at 18/19 or even 20. But if you play in the USHL it means you have some hockey talent, because most kids in the world aren't even close to that level.
 
They aren't just older. Most NCAA 1st Division players are former top junior leagues kids. When you graduate the USHL and then keep playing competitive hockey, of course you're better at age 22 than you were at 18/19 or even 20. But if you play in the USHL it means you have some hockey talent, because most kids in the world aren't even close to that level.
Not sure you are quoting me on the Stonehill players, they played in lower junior leagues and simply aren't that great.
 
Most top junior prospects don't play for teams like Stonehill though.

Here is the worst team of Big Ten Univ. of Notre Dame - Roster, News, Stats & more

And even its worst forward used to play in the USHL.
That's great but my back and forth with the other poster for the last 6 or so posts was specifically about Stonehill.

There are other weak teams in NCAA 1 as well but the NCAA is a "better" league mainly due to age not particualr skillsets and the harping by some on the OHL is just really petty.

Sure the level of competition matters but the skillset and projections are what matters the most in any team drafting any player.
 
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That's great but my back and forth with the other poster for the last 6 or so posts was specifically about Stonehill.

There are other weak teams in NCAA 1 as well but the NCAA is a "better" league mainly due to age not particualr skillsets and the harping by some on the OHL is just really petty.

Sure the level of competition matters but the skillset and projections are what matters the most in any team drafting any player.

Top NCAA teams have more than enough skill and talent, and lower level teams are competitive because they invite older players. And overal hockey level is significantly higher than in junior leagues.
 
Most top junior prospects don't play for teams like Stonehill though.

Here is the worst team of Big Ten Univ. of Notre Dame - Roster, News, Stats & more

And even its worst forward used to play in the USHL.
You're not impressing anybody with "these guys used to play in the USHL!" when this entire rabbithole we've gone down started with a poster shitting on the quality of the OHL.
Every team in the OHL would destroy every team in the USHL. Full stop.
 
Every team in the OHL would destroy every team in the USHL. Full stop.
How do you explain this then?
I have a ~10 year analysis of scoring across junior leagues worldwide.

USHL actually grades out as the best u-20 league world-wide "level" wise once adjust for team scoring %s (so not just raw points as ofc some leagues have different scoring levels).

That is mainly though as the USHL has historically been an older and deeper league that the CHL. And the import rules in the USHL favour making the teams deeper too as going to have 6 guys (4 Euros, 2 Canadians) who are very, very likely going to be pros one day soon.

CHL has more top-end talent... but a higher % of USHL players actually end up as "pro" players at a decent level (say ECHL and above). And the league is around 4 months older too on average.

The average USHL team is around 18.4 years old in terms of "regular" players, and has ~13 guys who will go on top have pro careers.

The average CHL team is around 18.1 years old, and has ~10 guys per team who will go on to have pro careers.

Does not mean it has the best prospects. But does mean it is probably the hardest u-20 league in the world to play well in and produce in.
 
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I don't. In the same way that i don't argue with my neighbour who has data proving the earth is flat.
I don't know why you think it's like claiming the earth is flat.

Age and caliber of the hockey players are both relevant factors. Older when talking about developing hockey players almost always means better. More future professionals suggests more raw ability.

I'm not even saying I think the USHL is better than the OHL (I give the O a slight advantage and the W an even slighter advantage while I think the Q is worse), but the idea that every team in the OHL would destroy every team in the USHL is backed up by what exactly?
 
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Yeah you're right. Only the top Ohl teams would destroy every team in the ushl. The top Ushl teams might give the bottom teams in the Ohl a good game, maybe. I doubt they'd win, but it's possible. Excuse my hyperbole.

Russian MHLers won last two U17 world challenges they played at. I'm pretty sure USHL is about the same level as MHL, and they can beat OHL teams for sure.
 
I don't know why you think it's like claiming the earth is flat.

Age and caliber of the hockey players are both relevant factors. Older when talking about developing hockey players almost always means better. More future professionals suggests more raw ability.

I'm not even saying I think the USHL is better than the OHL (I give the O a slight advantage and the W an even slighter advantage while I think the Q is worse), but the idea that every team in the OHL would destroy every team in the USHL is backed up by what exactly?
.3 of a year average of age difference when comparing 2 leagues with thousands of players between them is literally just noise. It's like saying the two leagues are exactly the same age.

Secondly, using the echl as evedince of "pro" career is a joke. It's a glorified beer league. If you're playing in that league your either young enough to hope to one day play in a real pro league, or hockey is basically a hobby for you. At that point you probably should of went to culinary or trucking school.

Thirdly, virtually all the players that do go on to play in the Ahl or Nhl from the Ushl don't go straight to pro hockey. They go to the Ncaa and then go pro. Obviously, Chlers don't have an intermediate college step. They go straight from the Ohl to the Ahl or Nhl. The implications of that difference should be so obvious as to not need further explaining.
 
Russian MHLers won last two U17 world challenges they played at. I'm pretty sure USHL is about the same level as MHL, and they can beat OHL teams for sure.
I have no idea about the mhl, so you're guess is better than mine. That said, I wouldn't put any stock whatsoever in wins and losses at the U17 Challenge. If Canada really cared about placement at that tournament they wouldn't send 2 teams obviously. Right?
It's mostly just an extended evaluation camp for Canada.
 

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